300 Win Mag vs. 338 Win Mag

[The Moose Whisperer]

For an Alberta mountain elk rifle, which caliber do you prefer/recommend? I am trying to round out my small rifle battery, I currently have:

- 243 Win for yotes/antelope/deer on the prairie;
- 303 Brit for deer/elk in the mountains or on the prairie; and
- 45-70 Gov't for deer/moose in the bush.

I like the old 303 Brit as it was my first rifle (handed down to me) and I plan on keeping it around for a deer gun, but I would like to add a gun with a little more oomph for a dedicated elk rifle. So, I am debating between the above two calibers for this purpose. I like the idea of the larger bullets in the medium bore 338 (especially since where I generally go elk hunting there are also grizz around) but must admit I am a little leary of the jump in recoil.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

[CaberTosser]

Leery of jump in recoil, but want the extra "oomph" for emergency situations with Grizz? Then do what I did: Ruger M77 Mark II .338 Win Mag and have a good 'smith add a muzzle brake. Mine's now lower recoiling than my .308 or .30-06's. The only tradeoff is some additional noise discomfort for those adjacent to you.

The only tradeoff is some additional noise discomfort for those adjacent to you.

Actually even a single shot with a braked rifle, without hearing protection,can cause permanent hearing damage for the shooter.

[Dick284]

Ok this is gonna mess with your mind.
Griz where you hunt hmm, whens the last time you had any sort of encounter with a griz, let alone even saw one?
Contrary to what is written about in the giun rags(Sorry TJ and Rich) but you sometimes gotta seperate the BS from the cold hard facts.
30'06's and 270's account for a pile of elk every season, they too have killed a pile of griz.
I'll give you an analogy to illustrate my point. Way back when I started in this tossed up world of huntiong and guns there was this friend of a friend who was about my age, and his Dad and Uncle and he all shot identical 270Wins, with identical reloads which consisted of H4831 and Fed 215's and 130gr. Nosler Partition's.
Between the 3 of them over the years the game tally went something like this:
6 Grizzly bear.
dozens of bull elk
dozens of bull moose
10's of dozens of deer
a smattering of sheep
a few goats
and a dozen or 2 of antelope.
Now if push came to shove I'd be inclined to have a wee bit more jam than a 130 in a 270Win, but it sure beats having only a camera in that sort of situation.
I'd be inclined to recommend that you purchase a 30'06 and look at ammunition with a weight of no less than 165grain, and bullets of a controlled expansion design.
some factory loadings that fit this catigory are:
180gr Nosler Partition's
180 gr, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws
168gr. TSX
165gr. TBBC

Seek the loading that shoots best in the rifle you buy, and stick with the stuff that gives you top accuracy.

My 2 bits anyways.

[Donny Bear]

I like my 300s nothing will change that so I would say go with the 300 wm or wsm because they will be here for the long haul. At the same time can't dispute Dicks wisdom Right bullet right placement 270s and 06s stack'em up

As for the muzzel brake I would agree with SJ but couldn't hear a word he said

[harv3589]

30-06 would round out your battery quite well...I agree with what Dick has to say as well.

If you don't like recoil,the 7mmremmag would be a great choice.

[Dick284]

You could also get yourself a 280 Remington too.

[209x50]

I have a couple of both and I really like both calibers. The .338 really shines with the 210 and larger grain bullets and the 300 does real well up to 200 grains. Either will kill the he!! out of anything you can run into here in Ab as will the 270, 308, 30/06 or a whole host of other calibers.

[AB2506]

Don't be afraid of the 338. I have a Ruger with the old synthetic stock. Even with the hard rubber recoil pad, it never hurt me. Now that I put a decelerator pad on it, it is even better.

A 338's recoil is a push, well a 300's recoil is a snap. A 12 guage 3" heavy goose load likely recoils more than a 338. I recommend a straight stock in the "classic" design.

My friend recently obtained a Kimber 270WSM. I sighted it in and was impressed how little recoil that light rifle had with Federal 140gr Accubonds. Didn't feel much more than my 115gr TSX 25-06 loads.

[Buckhead]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Ok this is gonna mess with your mind.
Griz where you hunt hmm, whens the last time you had any sort of encounter with a griz, let alone even saw one?
Contrary to what is written about in the giun rags(Sorry TJ and Rich) but you sometimes gotta seperate the BS from the cold hard facts.
30'06's and 270's account for a pile of elk every season, they too have killed a pile of griz.
I'll give you an analogy to illustrate my point. Way back when I started in this tossed up world of huntiong and guns there was this friend of a friend who was about my age, and his Dad and Uncle and he all shot identical 270Wins, with identical reloads which consisted of H4831 and Fed 215's and 130gr. Nosler Partition's.
Between the 3 of them over the years the game tally went something like this:
6 Grizzly bear.
dozens of bull elk
dozens of bull moose
10's of dozens of deer
a smattering of sheep
a few goats
and a dozen or 2 of antelope.
Now if push came to shove I'd be inclined to have a wee bit more jam than a 130 in a 270Win, but it sure beats having only a camera in that sort of situation.
I'd be inclined to recommend that you purchase a 30'06 and look at ammunition with a weight of no less than 165grain, and bullets of a controlled expansion design.
some factory loadings that fit this catigory are:
180gr Nosler Partition's
180 gr, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws
168gr. TSX
165gr. TBBC

Seek the loading that shoots best in the rifle you buy, and stick with the stuff that gives you top accuracy.

My 2 bits anyways.

Ditto on the .270

Although, 6 years ago I was just about laughed out of hunting camp in Northern BC when I pulled out my .270 featherweight.

My partners were armed with a .300 WM. .300 Weatherby and a .338 WM.

No one was laughing the next afternoon when I dropped a bull moose in its tracks with a 140 grain failsafe.

For anyone starting out I always recommend the 30-06. You just can't go wrong.

Although, I have in my gunsafe a 30-06, .300 WSM, .300 WM and a .338 WM I rarely use anything but the 06 and the .270. And when the shot just has to be made I pull out my old .270 every time. I've been using it so long it just points itself. Right now I favor the 140 Accubonds.

[VerySavage]

I have sold several rifles in the last two years since I am sick & do not appear to be winning my battle with cancer.
One that I sold was my beloved Ruger #1s .338 Win Mag, I bought that rifle many years ago when guiding, the Americans seemed to like to see that I was backing them up with my .338, but to tell you the truth I have harvested Moose, Elk & Deer with my little .260 Rem caliber with next to nothing for recoil, so anyway when I was thinning out my Gun Safe I kept saying to myself, just how many wepons do I need that are capable of killing anything in Alberta... I wish I had the money to afford to keep all my toys, but I still have two that can get the job done & meat in the freezer.
So at this point my only centerfire rifle calibers are .444 Marlin & .260 Remington.
You certainly cannot go wrong with either caliber you listed in your original post, I loved the smackdown power of my .338 WinMag. If money were not an issue for me I would have another Ruger #1 singleshot in a flash, probably in .338 WinMag again.
--Ken

[7 REM MAG]

after goin to africa and hunting with someone shooting a braked 375 H&H i will never again hunt with someone shooting a braked rifle as i got blasted upwards of 5 times and it was incredibally painful

[MGW]

I'd lean towards the 300 win mag as you have a bit more versatility and a bit less recoil. All things equal, the 338 is going to have more kick. I seem to remember a calculator on the internet where you could measure the amount of recoil for a particular load...

The 300 gives you more opportunity to shoot a bit light, higher velocity loads. based on what you already have in your arsenal I'd say it would fit the bill. Plus, if you do a combo deer/elk hunt, you won't get razzed for shooting a whitetail doe with a 338!

Hmmm....sorry to stir the pot here but I am a huge 300WM fan and think it's a great calibre for elk. A little more recoil than the '06 for sure but if that's not an issue...I'd go for it. Truthfully, the .338 is an awesoome calibre too. I think you'd be happy with both. I like the small calibres but if you can shoot them well, the big ones are a ton of fun as well.

[The Moose Whisperer]

Okay, lots of good food for thought here gents, much appreciated. For the record, while I know some guys swear by muzzle breaks and others swear at them, personally they are just not my cup of tea. If a rifle was too uncomfortable for me to shoot without a brake on it, I would be more inclined to step down a notch in caliber than to put on a brake. No judgement, just my preference.

With respect to the ability of the venerable 270 win to kill all kinds of critters - no doubt, I agree. Also, I agree that a person doesn't really run into grizz all that often (after all there are only 500 in AB ) but that said, I generally buy into the "an ounce of prevention" line of reasoning and would much rather have a little more gun than a little less when I am afield in bear country... again, just my personal preference.

Now hears the big question on the good old 30-06. No doubt it has enough jam for elk and is one of the all time great calibers, but for a dedicated elk rifle, not a combo deer/elk gun or a one gun for all occasions, but an actual dedicated elk rifle in grizz country, is the 30-06 really the optimum pick? I ask because I am not afflicted with Magnumitis by any stretch (as my present calibers will attest to) and if the consensus is that the 30-06 is fine for elk to grizz, then I may have to give it some serious thought. I just figured that for a dedicated elk gun where I hunt the extra punch of a 300 or 338 Win Mag may be worth the price one pays in recoil.

Anyway, keep it coming guys all your input is great.

[elkhunter1234]

i've got to say 338 win mag on this one.... i have also shoot several bull elk and moose with a 270 like some of the others are talking about, i have to agree that it's not how big the bullat is but where you put it that count, but if you are looking for a caliber for elk or larger animals than the 338 is what you will be happiest with....IMO it is the best elk caliber ever made,.... i know i am going to get blasted for going out on that limb. lol

Either would be a great choice if you shoot them well and I agree that something in the .30 calibre range is definitely the way to go for the conditions you described. I'd never buy a gun on the off chance of running into a grizz or I'd never carry a .25-06 for sheep but for a dedicated elk gun...the .300 and .338 are both great choices. .270 would definitely not be in the running. If recoil is a consideration, the .30-06 would be my reccommendation.

[The Moose Whisperer]

For those of you that like the 300 and the 338 lets talk recoil a little more. I know numbers aren't everything, but according to the recoil calculator I have been playing with the 300WM looks like it should have about the same recoil as my 45-70 - say mid 20s in terms of ft lbs. My .45-70 doesn't bother me to shoot - stealing 2506's line, it feels like more of a shove or push than a crack. Never shot a 300 or a 338, but I am heading up to hunting camp in about a week and one of the guys there will have a 300WM and another has a 375H&H, so I will be able to bang off a few with each and feel how they are. So question is, what is the bump from the 300 to the 338? More than the bump from a 30-06 to a 300WM? What about the difference between the 338 and a 375H&H? Don't know anyone with a 338, so just trying to get a feel for where it might fall among the guns I do have access to in terms of recoil.

Certainly there are a number of things that can be done to mitigate recoil as well. Go to a heavier gun.....get a quality recoil pad and as a last resort...porting. You can't compare the recoil of two calibres accurately unless you shoot them in identical guns. The recoil calculator will give you a rough idea but felt recoil is a whole lot different than actual foot pounds of recoil. Stock design plays a major role in felt recoil and the only way to know is to shoot the gun. I've shot .300s that have far more felt recoil than .338s and viceversa.

[elkhunter1234]

in term of recoil,... i would have to say that if my 270 kicks like my 20ga then my 338 would kicks like my 12ga with #4 shot....only shot a 375 once and it hurt like my 458 win mag...

[Donny Bear]

The 300 has never bothered me my 338 was a browning and kick more than I cared to deal with on that same note I have shot a 375 H&H in the Sako Safari grade and it was fine all in the design of the gun I know guys that have the old parker and Hales and 308 or 30-06 kick the daylights out of you
had I owned a 338 in a ruger number 1 I doubt I would have been nearly so bothered by the recoil This thursday I will shoot my new winchester Coyote Lite for the first time in 300 wsm and I have found no opinion or experiance with the gun so I pays my Dime and Takes my chances Let you know if its yeah or whoe one will be true

[Roebag]

You need to get a break put on with either choice you make by what you said.

I have killed a half dozen elk with my old Browing BBR in 300 wm and it worked well. a few years back I bought a 340 weatherby with a removable break, there was a marked improvement on what happened down range to the next 2 elk. No running at all(I liked this). Now with my focus on lightening my load(getting older) I bought a T3 light in 338 and had Dave Henry install a break. I haven't shot an elk yet with my 338 to see what its like.
Sure the non-magnums will do the job, but you don't get to choose the situations very often that you get for a shot. The 338 or 300 wm will handle most elk hunting situations far better than a non mag IMO.

The recoil out of my 340 and 338 IMO with the breaks on is equal too or less than my 270 shooting 150's

My personal feeling about your situation, go with the 300 wm and have a break installed. Great for deer, sheep, moose, elk, bear. It can do it all

Rob

[The Moose Whisperer]

Thanks for the comments on recoil guys. As far as mitigating recoil, I've put Limbsavers on all my guns (even the 243) and love them. I will also definately be looking for a gun with some meat on its bones in terms of weight.

Decisions, decisions... I think I am leaning toward the 300WM as sort of a middle ground among the 30-06, 300WM and 338WM. Plus I can shoot my buddy's 300WM while at camp this year (I think its a Ruger M77 Synthetic) to get an idea of what the recoil is like. I don't expect it to be an issue.

Now the only thing I need to worry about is getting another gun and scope past the finance department

[MGW]

From what I've experienced, the difference in recoil from the 30-06 to the 300wm is about the same as the 300wm to the 338.

I have a Sig in 300wm that fits well so it feels like a shove as opposed to a kick. That said however, you definately know you've released some serious energy when you touch it off!

[Huntnut]

A more important issue than which caliber is how the rifle fits you. Far too many people worry about which caliber is better when they should be more worried about the fit of a gun. If it does not fit properly then chances are it will be uncomfortable to shoot no matter what caliber it is.


Just my 2 cents worth

You need to get a break put on with either choice you make by what you said.

I don't know if I'd go that far. I've got three .300WMs and none of them sport a brake and for me personally, I don't see a need for one. My .338 doesn't have a brake either. Brakes are well suited to some shooters and others don't require them. It's pretty much up to each shooter to make that decision.

Originally Posted by elkhunter1234

in term of recoil,... i would have to say that if my 270 kicks like my 20ga then my 338 would kicks like my 12ga with #4 shot....only shot a 375 once and it hurt like my 458 win mag...

Shot size really makes no difference in the amount of recoil. The weight of the shot load does. An ounce of #8 would have the same amount of recoil as an ounce of BB....all other things being equal.
Recoil is a combination of rifle weight, muzzle velocity, powder/shot payload. There are some pretty cool on line calculators but as I stated ealier, all they give you is the calculated recoil and actual recoil varies greatly from gun to gun.

This is one of those questions that has no correct answer.

You really need to look at what YOUR specific requirements will be.
If recoil is your #1 deciding factor, a non magnum (280, 3006) would likely be your best bet.

I have shot moose and elk with everything from a 25-06 to a 300 Weatherby. They all perform well if you shoot them well.

I would not consider my 25-06 adequate for killing a large bull quartering away at 400 yards, but I would never take that shot with it. Under 200 yards it performs very well (with 120 Nosler Partitions). It would make me feel vulnerable in Grizz country though...

My suggestion would be a good old 30-06 loaded with some of today's premium bullets. Barnes, Swift and Nosler all have good choices.

One of the things the new bullets allow is a person to have much better performance than days gone by, thereby somewhat negating the advantages of magnums.

That being said I shoot a 300 for elk.....

[Bobby B.]

You stated 'a dedicated a elk rifle'. Why not go with a 338/06 in a thumbhole stock? This cartridge would provide the extra ooomph you're after plus the thumbhole will reduce felt recoil.

Bobby B.