Long-range Optics

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

I'm gonna have to look into makin it to the Ft. Mac rodeo this year...thanks for the invite...I will keep it in mind!!

it's a great time, for sure, and us fellas up here are welcome to have you!
Lots of room for a camper or tent, full kitchen and showers as well....
Cat

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

I agree with Jamie on this one, just because you have a stove, doesn't mean you can cook. Nonetheless, it is easier to cook a gourmet meal with a gas stove and range than a wood fire and a weeenie stick.

Bobby B.

Loved it!

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

it's a great time, for sure, and us fellas up here are welcome to have you!
Lots of room for a camper or tent, full kitchen and showers as well....
Cat

June 7&8th.
All ya gotta do is make DV on Thursday night the crew will depart for the North Friday AM early.

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by depopulator

Sorry if I misunderstood. Just trying to clarify some of the above points.

Still, lot's of marketing hype being pushed on this thread, which is scary because it's too easy for some to be misguided (pun intended) into thinking they can go out and buy LR capability. Granted, interesting technology, but never a replacement for the actual long range trigger experience in actual field conditions. In fact, most who assume this tech is "point and shoot" learn different after seriously applying it at extended range. Maybe not a big deal under 500 yards though, but let's get real, this hype is not promoting these types of shots.........

I am not sure I agree with this being "HYPE"....and I don't think it is scary at all.....I think Jamie hit the nail when he said PRATICE....just because a scope has some additional reticles ain't going to make you hit anything at 600+ yards, unless you have the skill to actually make such shots....and that only comes with PRACTICE....

That being said, I don't think the manufacturers of this equipment are saying anyone can pick these scopes up and your instantly a marksman out to 800yrds....They are tools....and once you have one, understand it, and its dialed in for your specific gun.....These scopes are as simple as "point and shoot"..

Then all you have to do is "Point and Shoot" LOTS!! Start banging Gongs at the range....

These are great Stoves and really can help a chef, once you learn to cook a bit......

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by Dick284

June 7&8th.
All ya gotta do is make DV on Thursday night the crew will depart for the North Friday AM early.

Well I just marked my Calendar.....

Have to see what the Cat and his hat can do......

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by Dick284

June 7&8th.
All ya gotta do is make DV on Thursday night the crew will depart for the North Friday AM early.

Dick...I'll be there man. Will talk to Jordan and see if he wants to come up, and we're surely comin to the DV Rodeo again this year...

[Mulestalker]

What is wrong with your standard scope,serves the same purpose.I have a few VXlll 4.5-14 scopes which I have calculated my ballistics out to 600yrds,figured out the clicks needed for zeroing at these yardages, field tested and tuned ,then marked on my elevation dials, works as good as you can get. The other day I just finished doing my 25-06 so took it out coyote hunting and low and behold I had a volunteer, coyote came in but wasn't convinced so decided to hang up around the 500yrd mark,buddy ranged him, wind was in my back,the shot was made and he dropped without a twitch. (have a crappy video of it on the coyote contest page) recoil was a little much for my camera,but the audio tells the story.

[LongDraw]

The idea of a reticle with multiple hash marks, mil dots, etc.. confuses me when I am in the field (at the range is a diferent thing) I have 3 rigs which I consider "long Range", and I have verified my drops to 800 yards on them. All of the scopes on these guns have target turrets. I have simplified it by printing a label that is in yards, and just wrapped it around the turret. Lots of fiddling around to get it to work, but once you get the label correct it is pretty slick. I pack a laser rangefinder and dial the distance and use hold-off for the wind. All of my LR scopes have a simple fine duplex reticle.

The thing I worry about with balistic reticles and the like is POI change with altitude and temperature, etc... I keep real comprehensive load data, and you would be amazed how temperature and altitude will change POI at 800 yards. Some guys swear by using a reticle to range that is graduated, but I like my field of view to be unobstructed.

My 6br which loves Varget, known as an "extreme powder" supposedly temperature does not effect velocity will have near 100 fps difference from the summer to the winter....

With my system I just print a label if the change is significant enough to warrant. Some guys get way more involved with packing PDA's with a ballistic program that jives with the reticle but that is too involved for me.

[Stinky Coyote]

Reply to MuleStalker

Thats how its been done for the long range stuff for ages. The hardcore long range guys prefer the click and chart method also. But i get the impression that its target born and not hunting born stuff. Lots of time to consult charts and click away on the range...and in lots of hunting situations too....its proven, nothing wrong with it. The new stuff is just trying to find faster/easier ways of doing same thing for the hunting crowd really. And thats always a good thing imo.

You hit the nail on the head Stinky! These are optics designed to simplify things for hunters that are serious about long range shooting. If speed is of the essence, a reticle likle the Rapid Z offers no muss and no fuss....just point and shoot! Simple is good for me and with the crosshairs actually marked in yardage rather than traditional mildot configuration, even a simpleton like me can't get confused as to which mark to use. Some folks are always going to resist technology and others embrace it......neither is right nor wrong but I do like new technology.

[Stinky Coyote]

You've got your own huskemaw set up going there Longdraw....very cool! I really like the concept also. I can't wait to see what manufacturers come up with to compete with or answer to this concept as its probably the most effective as you could do several turrets to cover the majority of elevation/temp conditions and slap the right one on at start of hunt? Anyhow, i'm sure its all just scratching the surface for whats coming in the next 5 yrs from the scope manufacturers. I wish the huskemaw had illum. reticle option. I will probably have to try the zeiss 800 and the huskemaw system at some point. I think it will be fun.

For us mainstream factory gear/ammo guys its probably too much to build our own huskemaw type set ups etc.

Oh, and x2 on your reply ab whitetail....practice goes without saying. You don't shoot out there and not know before hand where things go with your own gear.

[ABwhitetail]

I agree Stinky, the technology is just making it simpler and quicker in hunting situations.....I eat this stuff up...great info on this thread everyone!!!

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Some folks are always going to resist technology and others embrace it......neither is right nor wrong but I do like new technology.

Lol, no doubt thats the way of things isn't it?! I like new stuff....gear junky...and i like it convenient, simple, and easy to use as possible! So bring on the technology.

[LongDraw]

Once you have verified drops there is a company called Kenton Industries that will make a custom turret for about $70. They make them for most scope brands I believe. They look prettier than mine, but no more or less effective. Graduated in yards, not MOA like factory knobs

I think the next big change will be scopes with integrated rangefinders. They have a few right now, but this technology is in it's infancy. Ugly and clunky at this point....

[Stinky Coyote]

My next scope is a clicker btw. http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-s...illum-reticle/ but its for that semi auto 6.8spc i ordered to set up for predator calling. Take a page out of the tactical guys book. 50-700 yrd engagement type stuff, super fast for the close stuff but dial it up for the long stuff....sounds like predator hunting eh? Anyhow, this scope has markings for either .223 or .308 trajectories and the 6.8 apparently mimicks the .308 trajectory so that could com in handy for when i actually learn my rig to 500 yrds and see where the clicks are in relation to the factory graduations...it should help either way to make a quick chart for inside of my stock for reference. But won't need to do any consulting for the 99%(0-200 yrds) stuff that generally happens with predator calling.

So just to point out...i'm not against clickers at all....just for all the technology as i've got a 'perfect' big game gun plan going for after the 6.8 is done lol.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Once you have verified drops there is a company called Kenton Industries that will make a custom turret for about $70. They make them for most scope brands I believe. They look prettier than mine, but no more or less effective. Graduated in yards, not MOA like factory knobs

I think the next big change will be scopes with integrated rangefinders. They have a few right now, but this technology is in it's infancy. Ugly and clunky at this point....

I'll search kenton out and bookmark them forsure. Maybe use it for the mark4 on the 6.8 so its a perfect match?

Not sure i'd go for the rangefinding scope though...i like to range way too many things that i'd rather not point a gun at....unless this scope ranges and then just dials in for the range by itself? Now were talking....a trigger pad of some sort maybe...press and its ranging...as your holding on target the reticle changes from red to green to let you know its dialed in....kabooom. Oh yeah...super futuristic....maybe it has a little wind meter built into it also? A ballistics calculating rangefinding scope all in one! Heck, maybe it'll pull the trigger for us too? Have a sip of coffee (or maybe celebratory spirit?) while your gun kills your sheep at 800 yrds for you. Did somebody say coffee? I gotta go...

[Stinky Coyote]

oh this is cool... http://www.kentonindustries.com/pics/picbytype/

i like the speed dial forsure! oh yeah...my mk4 will wear one of these forsure! thanks for the tip on them

[Skinnydipper]

Stinky:

You need to go kill something (even if it's the old fashioned way)...........before you explode .

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Skinnydipper

Stinky:

You need to go kill something (even if it's the old fashioned way)...........before you explode .

I know......sorry....got a bit carried away there. I'm just SOOO excited.

[Pathfinder76]

Leupold has been easy at long range for a long time.

[catnthehat]

I've used both turrets and hash mak reticles on my scopes.
I prefer to turret if I can, but it means that most times I will be hunting with someone spotting with a range finder, be it for coyotes or deer.

I've never used the hashmarks BTW for hunting even though I initially use them.
I envariably go back to the center crosshair and gap shoot the critter!

I do use the windage marks however, when holding over for wind.
Ya, I know, I'm a complicated dude....!
Cat

[catnthehat]

This is the reticle I am used to using, but it is a true tactical reticle, not a hunting style like the Varmint hunter style.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Here it is
The scope has a 34MM tube to maximize the maximum turretability.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...clelighted.jpg
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by ABwhitetail

Well I just marked my Calendar.....

Have to see what the Cat and his hat can do......

Cat's old, eyes are gone, shakes are present,
out of breath, no threat there...
Cat

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Cat's old, eyes are gone, shakes are present,
out of breath, no threat there...
Cat

Somehow I take little comfort in that

[sullijr]

Originally Posted by ABwhitetail

Ok, I think I am getting it....

So if you have 2 focal plains....you will have 1 MOA inches for EACH of those plains (2 different MOA inches).... therefore under higher magnification the MOA inches between the various reticles will be greater....so in use, by switching from one reticle to the next you are actually moving your POI more than you would under lower magnification (or the other Focal Plain)...

In the case of only 1 reticle, this is not an issue.....

Am I on to something here?????

nope only one focal plane at per scope, 1 moa inches is an incorrect statement,1 MOA is approximately 1 inch at 100 yds 2inches at 200 yards etc.
One minute of angle is 1/21600 of a circle.Circle=360degrees.Degree=60 MOA

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by sullijr

nope only one focal plane at per scope, 1 moa inches is an incorrect statement,1 MOA is approximately 1 inch at 100 yds 2inches at 200 yards etc.
One minute of angle is 1/21600 of a circle.Circle=360degrees.Degree=60 MOA

Ya , I think I was over complicating it...I think I got it now...basically when you have multiple hash reticle, as you increase the power, you change the field of view, which in turn changes the MOA between the hash marks....

So in theory you POI will not change on the main hash mark (reticle) at the different magnifications, but at different powers the additional hash marks represent different MOA from the first...hence why you use a constant power setting when using those additional marks....

I think