Long-range Optics

It's funny how a little instruction and knowledge can change your mind but after spending a considerable amount of time shooting at ranges between 500-800 yards last week, I must admit I've changed my mind considerably about long-range shooting. With some of the new scopes with target style turrets and multiple crosshair configurations, shooting 500 yards was a breeze and the consistency at which we hit the 800 yard target was astounding.

While target turrets and mildots are nothing new, optics manufacturers are offering a bevy a far more user friendly versions this year than can be dialed to the specific ballistics of your rifle.

On a side note, spent a fair amount of time with Dan Sheppard and that was most enlightening as well.

Obviously with a number of provisions and some new optics, I'd say my effective range is definitely out to 500 yards and with a bit more work I could see pushing that to 600 or 700 quite easily. Technology definitely is changing the way I think about shooting and hunting.

[Bobby B.]

Glad to learn of your new perspective. All too often reason is lynched by emotions. After a couple of sessions at the range with me, a comparatively novice shot was connecting without failure on the gongs out to 500 meters at Genesee. It served very effectively as a confidence builder for him and he took his muley buck this year with 1 shot through the shoulders. The distance was 432 yds and the load was 130gr Bal Tip out of a .270 Win.

Bobby B.

[Rackmastr]

Good post TJ....thanks for the insight.

I've been contemplating having an elevation installed on my VXIII 3.5-10 that is going on my 7-08AI. While not a long-range round, I'd like to play around a bit at the range and have the ability to dial in longer range shots, if only for enjoyment in the field.

My gun is at the smith right now....thinking I'll send the scope out and have the turret installed this week....

Interstingly, we were shooting ranges from 100-800 yards all with the same scope on the same 270WSM....and there was nothing custom about the gun, ammo or optics...it was all off the shelf stuff and this was shooting off nothing more than a gunnysack filled with sand with no rear rest. Some of the new optics we shot could quite literally turn a calibre with the ballistics of a 7mm-08 into a true long-range gun. It was a definite learning day for me. Bouhuntress was shooting an off the shelf Savage and never missed a prairie dog target at 500 yards and had no trouble ringing the gong at 800. The longest shot she pulled off, twice in a row was 879 yards...with the Savage and factory ammo......like I said....it sure opened my eyes! Those 200-300 yard shots seemed like child's play.

[Rackmastr]

Ya I'm thinking that at least with the adjustments I will be able to enjoy some long range shooting out of it. Its at the 'smith having a bunch of work done including having it reamed to Ackley, having it pillar bedded, and having some accurizing work done....

Also think it would be cool to have Kim shoot some long range stuff and get some confidence on those shots so the short ones are even easier....

[catnthehat]

Gotta get you fellers behind a long range IRONS rifle, now THAT is a hoot!!
How about dropping them into a bull" circle ( or tighter!) at 1K from prone with a sling, or a 8" rock at 700?
The white thing on the far bank is the target at 1K

there is a rock waaaay up on the bank at 700 in the open area.

Rifle is a 308 with central iron rears and a Tiger Sight front.


Cat

[Rackmastr]

Too cool Cat....I'd love to get out with ya and blast some rocks with the irons....

[catnthehat]

Here's blackman gettin' er dun with a No.1 lee Enfiled at 1K!!
first shot was low, sight adjustmant, and the second shot hit!
We had our target down at the time, he was aiming at a BROWN ROCK!!

cat

Ya, some definite skill and a lot of knowledge and practice there...not something you'd learn in a few hours at the range. Cool thing about some of the new scopes is that you actually hold the crosshairs right on target at ranges from 100-800 yards with no formulas to remember or guessing. Quite literally point and shoot!

[sbtennex]

Or you could simply dump all your guns, build a .257 super-mag and blow everything away with a really light bullet at 4500 fps. Don't need to adjust for range out to way out - it's flat.

Not 0-800 yards flat!

[Dick284]

Hey TJ got any specifics on those scopes?

Originally Posted by Dick284

Hey TJ got any specifics on those scopes?

I was shooting the 800 primarily.... http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5...2571d700377d7e

Click on the Radip Z icon.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by sbtennex

Or you could simply dump all your guns, build a .257 super-mag and blow everything away with a really light bullet at 4500 fps. Don't need to adjust for range out to way out - it's flat.

Yep....without gravity, wind, anything else it would be perfect without adjustments.....lol....

Wow...someone is on cloud 9....

[shekaree]

TJ,

Did you get a chance to look at Shephead scopes? or were they even there?


Thanks

Originally Posted by shekaree

TJ,

Did you get a chance to look at Shephead scopes? or were they even there?


Thanks

Yup, spent a fair amount of time with Dan Sheppard....cool guy.

[shekaree]

Did you like Shepherd scopes? Did you get a chance to use it and what do you think about them? Please fill me up with the info, thanks.

Originally Posted by shekaree

Did you like Shepherd scopes? Did you get a chance to use it and what do you think about them? Please fill me up with the info, thanks.

Ya, looked at them closely but never had a chance to use them. Personally I think they are a step up from the mildot but not in the league of the new stuff from Zeiss and Swaro that is tuned to your specific ballistics. No questions the optics are far superior in the Euro glass as well.

[sullijr]

Originally Posted by sbtennex

Or you could simply dump all your guns, build a .257 super-mag and blow everything away with a really light bullet at 4500 fps. Don't need to adjust for range out to way out - it's flat.

You gots to shoot way more at ranges over 100 yds before an opinion is posted.The fastest .257 is a 75 gr at 4000 and it drops 48.63" at 600 yds.I would guess that at 800 it would be double.The best at long range are heavy for caliber at around 3000fps as the high BC helps to maintain trajectory and reduce wind drift

[Reeves1]

TJ....thanks a lot for another link that may very well suck more money out of my pocket !
Saved in favorites for my next BROWNING !

[altaberg]

Cat: Rifle is a 308 with central iron rears and a Tiger Sight front.

how about a picture of that rig?

[altaberg]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I was shooting the 800 primarily.... http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5...2571d700377d7e

Click on the Radip Z icon.

Sheep you are a bad influence!

never mind the A7 and the shotty, I really want one of those.

Originally Posted by altaberg

Sheep you are a bad influence!

never mind the A7 and the shotty, I really want one of those.

Ya, sadly I do as well. Man, it sure takes the guess work out of the long range stuff. Truly blew my mind how easy it made it. I couldn't imagine a new sheep rifle without one....lol

[Chet]

All the new stuff out there is so cool. Zeiss is definately putting out some great products. I got a chance to check out their new rangefinder/binocular combo at SCI and I really liked them but I haven't tried them outside yet. If only my bank account could keep up with technology!

[shirtr]

The Leupold Boone and Crocket and Vamint reticles work well on my 300, 30-06 and 243 and are a little easier on the pocket book.

Ya, Leupold was definitely ahead of the curve on these reticles but with the new ones from Zeiss and Swaro, you can fine tune that even more by dialing them in for your exact load plus the Zeiss is good all the way out to 1,000 yards....pretty amazing technology.

[Rackmastr]

On the same topic....I just sold my Leica LRF 900 and bought a Leica CRF 900 model.....WOW...what a difference. These little rangefinders are amazing. The difference in size and comfort are well worth the upgrade, and so far its been great at practicing and is easy to get solid ranges to 700-850 on larger items....

Worth the mention, as a good rangefinder is equally as important, and this one is amazing....

[Stinky Coyote]

Right on, good post.

I started messing with a scope like this a couple years back now and found similar results.

I found a scope for 250 bucks at canadian tire south macleod trail store in calgary that does the same pretty well. Its a burris ff2 3-9x40 with ballistic plex reticle...one of the least busy reticles out there but with aim points set up for 5-600 yrds depending on caliber and zero.

Anyhow, i set up ONE impromptu range from 300 to 500 and shot ONE 3 shot group at each to determine hold over with a cz american in .204 ruger and factory 32 gr v-max. My 300 yrd group was 2", my 400 yrd group was 4", my 500 yrd group was 6"....laying prone in a field and wind to back and 3 shots one right after the other without alot of thought...just aim/shoot. That cartridge was a little fast to match the hash marks but i figured out where the drop was in relation to the reticle and made a quick reference chart for side of stock. 500 yrds was perfectly centered between the 2nd & 3rd hash mark with a 1.5" high at 100 zero fyi.

Scope must be on same magnification as you learn it...burris says max magnification so thats what i used....and to make it work you must dial up to that magnification so i put a large 9x on my chart to remind me to dial up for the long shots. If a guy has a front focal plane scope then it doesn't matter the magnification but most of us probably shoot the 2nd focal plane scopes where the reticle stays same size regardless of magnification...so its important to be on the right magnification to make this work.

Then i put same scope on a tikka .270 and did it again. One half day, field conditions, impromptu target stuck up at 300 then moved to 400 then moved to 500 and quick 3 shot groups with factory 130 gr fusion ammo and i kept them under 2moa right out to 500 yrds....easy...not thinking very hard...just aiming and shooting laying prone in field on a 9-13" harris swivel bipod. Best part was...with a 2.9" high zero at 100 yrds the 300 yrd hash mark had impacts about 1" low but the 400 and 500 yrd hash marks were bang on so for standard calibers the system is set up pretty close. Close enough that you can make a copy of the crosshair to stick on side of stock and put the +2" beside on hash mark or -5" beside another....of course you'd actually shoot to those distances so you knew forsure where bullets hit compared to your hash marks....and for the chart i use shipping tags and sharpie markers for water proofness....then just electrical tape it to my stock. Its crude i know but i don't have a single custom firearm, and never reloaded a single shell. I'm about as basic as it gets on guns/gear so far.

Here's the burris info...you'll see what i mean by making your own chart and sticking it to stock with your own plus's/minus's(+-) figures beside your reticle marks for reference. The scopes come with a bazillion premade stickers for a majority of the calibers that you could use also but i found that they aren't usually bang on...you need to shoot to those distances and find out exactly how many inches high or low for each hash mark you are and make your own chart imo. Click here for burris info http://www.burrisoptics.com/reticles.html

Factory gear, factory ammo, 250 buck scopes and i feel pretty good to 500 with very little practice aside from lots of 100 yrd stuff finding favorite factory ammo's for those two guns and getting better at shooting tighter groups as a result. And hey, if a guy had the right conditions and time he could make it happen. All it takes is to actually go do it. I use a 4' high board about 2' wide and big 200 yrd targets stacked on top of each other to make sure i have lots of paper to show where things hit when i'm not sure which hash mark will put them where. Now with the little practice i have i could use a much smaller board and be there.

An interesting thing i keep in mind to try if i get a scope that has alot of magnification and multiple aim points and trying to match them up to the cartridge is to shoot a group holding main crosshair dead on at say 300 yrds, 400 yrds, 500 yrds and then draw a circle around the group and fill it in with black and go back to gun and hold crosshair on main aimpoint and dial the magnification to see what power you need to be on to get the hash mark you want to center on the black circle you just filled in?....and at each range holding the crosshair on main target just dialing the magnification on the scope to get the reticle's hash marks to line up to the black dots which cover the actual group you shot at that range...the black circle around your group is for allowing you to see your group from those ranges fyi. With some trial you could figure out what magnification works best to have your hash marks line up better with known yardages. You'd need a tall target to do this to 500 though....like 5-6' feet for standard cartridges. Just an interesting concept that i know i will likely use at some point.

Haven't tried to paper anything past that though...yet.

I can't imagine not having a scoped gun without at least a multiple point reticle or an elevation target clicker to at least practice and learn my rigs to longer ranges now that i know what i know...and if i can do this then anyone can! 400 yrds is the new 300 yrds.

I even have my .17 hmr set up same way(3.25" 5 shot group at 252 yrds semi-auto fire about as fast as i could aim/shoot), i shot it to 300 but it really falls off there and found it hard to hold the bottom of post in same spot on bull so it was about a 10" group but 3 were on the bull only a few inches apart and the other 2 were low. So if i was playing with gophers i could probably hit a few at 300 on a calm day because i shot that far...but out to 250 would be much easier as i learned it and made a reticle with the info on inside of stock. The burris stickers have them for .22lr and .17 hmr also but i didn't find them close enough either...gotta make your own....i mean they are close enough to see impacts but shooting gophers you gotta be way more precise...a couple inches out isn't good enough so gotta make your own chart imo.

I don't have a clicker style scope yet but i will have one coming soon for my first custom gun which is a short/med range auto-loader for predator hunting so i'm going for a leupy mark4 1.5-5 illum special purpose reticle and m2 target knobs to learn gun to 4-500 yrds if needed but it should be red dot quick for 99% of the shooting it will likely do on called in predators etc. but i'll be able to dial up on a hanger if need be and conditions allow it. But i would agree the multiple aimpoint reticles are fast and suited more to hunting situations although i've never tried the target knob system...i'm sure with practice it could be pretty good too...lots doing it that way forsure...especially the dedicated long range crowd. Spent a few weeks reading up on longrangehunting.com and that was an eye opener! They aren't fans of the multiple aim point reticles...they are precision fanatics and have a need to dial in to the 1/4" from what i gather so far...so they love the clickers etc. but i'm not sure i want to go that hardcore?

And as soon as my little auto-loader is set up for predators i'm going to get into it a little further and build up another gun for like as far as you were shooting Sheep, better glass choice and more accurate gun and a heavier hitter so actually has some energy left at 7-800 and learn the crap out of it to those ranges so that 500-600 becomes the new 300-400.

I love all the choices and tools we get to play with these days...times are good...you can go as hardcore as you want and what's been mentioned here in this post is only scratching the surface...go to those long range websites and see all the hardcore shooting 1000 yrd and beyond building up 338 lapua mags like crazy...it might be standardized cartridge here before we know it. Eye opening stuff forsure.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Chet

All the new stuff out there is so cool. Zeiss is definately putting out some great products. I got a chance to check out their new rangefinder/binocular combo at SCI and I really liked them but I haven't tried them outside yet. If only my bank account could keep up with technology!

Sweet....i love my Leica Geovids...have ranged a birm at 1298 yrds with them. I like having the units combined and high end is way to go forsure. I wonder if Swaro will follow suit?...i would have probably gone swaro if available at the time. I better start saving.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ya, Leupold was definitely ahead of the curve on these reticles but with the new ones from Zeiss and Swaro, you can fine tune that even more by dialing them in for your exact load plus the Zeiss is good all the way out to 1,000 yards....pretty amazing technology.

Awesome! Do you dial them in for the load by using the magnification? This sounds super interesting...my burris stuff limits you pretty much to about 600 tops. I love the idea, not sure i'm going to love clickers so i will totally look into this for my long range rig!