Metis Hunting Rights Ruling

[kingjames30-378]

i am also metis, some of the comments on hear really get my blood boiling.
Just because a man is metis or native you all think they are out shooting game everyday. There is actually some metis and native people that do have a life and dont abuse the system..Like the one post on hear calling us IDIOTS.
man i would love to find you on the street. Looks like racism is alive and well isnt it. I dont agree with the men who shoot the animals out of season. they could of went about things a little better..

[danger7]

I am also metis and the way i look at it is if your family depends on the meat from a moose than get one but nobody shood be out shooting trophy animals claiming hunting rights.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by danger7

I am also metis and the way i look at it is if your family depends on the meat from a moose than get one but nobody shood be out shooting trophy animals claiming hunting rights.

The Gov. can and will issue issue Subsistence Licences to citizens in need of wild meat. Race is not a consideration on the application.

[deerhuntercentral]

I think this was a good call no question, but let's not paint Metis in Alberta with the same brush. I am going to give you guys an example of a true sportsman and conservationist.

My cousin is a carded Metis, he owns a section of land within the radius of his historical settlement, Buffalo lake. A couple years ago he shot a 191 whitetail on his hayfield there, it's a sick deer, no question. He calls me in mid October, prior to the November opener, and he tells me he has seen a buck 150 yards from his deck that makes his 191 look small, he tells me its a 7 x 7 and he's certain it would go 210 net. His wife told me the first time he saw it he turned pale and couldn't speak. He has chased whitetails for 25 years and has a pretty good idea about scoring deer. Over the course of the next couple weeks he sees the buck repeatedly eating on his alfalfa. Of course I ask him the question. "Are you going to shoot it?". Amazingly he says "yeah I want to shoot it, but it doesn't feel right because it's not November". I am astonished, here's a deer that could go close to a world record and he doesn't shoot it even though legally it's in his right to do so. November rolls around and he's pretty busy, but he's got his eyes peeled for that buck. We go up to High Prairie for a few days of hunting and his wife calls and tells him "that big deer" walked through the yard at 3 in the afternoon. Of course he's sick. He managed to hunt the last few days on his place and saw the buck 3 days before it closed at the far corner of his alfalfa. I guarantee you that buck will be in his alfalfa at some point in December and I also guarantee you it won't get shot...this year. So keep in mind there are still Metis people out there that haven't taken some twist of the law and given themselves an advantage to bagging trophies.

[NCC]

There are many Metis and Natives with very high moral standards but it's the ones that will take advantage of the system that I am worried about. I'm sure that less than 10% of Natives hunt but that 10% can do a lot of damage. I would bet that a big reason why the grizzly hunt was cancelled was to keep Metis and Natives from shooting them (In the last 4 or 5 years, they have shot 3 G-bears in my little corner of the world).

As I understand it, the hunting rights for Metis does not apply to every part blood Native but only those who could show a historical link to the Red River Settlement. If I'm wrong, please clarify the rules.

As someone else already stated, this is the thin edge of the wedge. As soon as the Metis can establish hunting rights in an area, they will want oil revenue, logging revenue, first shot at the bids, a percentage of the workers on a site to be Metis, and on and on (like working around Red Earth or any of the other areas previous posters have mentioned). They could even go after the guide and outfitting business if they could show a historical link to making a livelyhood from market hunting or guiding.

Metis students get funding for post secondary education to give them a headstart. They should be able to make it on their own merit after that.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by NCC

There are many Metis and Natives with very high moral standards but it's the ones that will take advantage of the system that I am worried about. I'm sure that less than 10% of Natives hunt but that 10% can do a lot of damage. I would bet that a big reason why the grizzly hunt was cancelled was to keep Metis and Natives from shooting them (In the last 4 or 5 years, they have shot 3 G-bears in my little corner of the world).

As I understand it, the hunting rights for Metis does not apply to every part blood Native but only those who could show a historical link to the Red River Settlement. If I'm wrong, please clarify the rules.

As someone else already stated, this is the thin edge of the wedge. As soon as the Metis can establish hunting rights in an area, they will want oil revenue, logging revenue, first shot at the bids, a percentage of the workers on a site to be Metis, and on and on (like working around Red Earth or any of the other areas previous posters have mentioned). They could even go after the guide and outfitting business if they could show a historical link to making a livelyhood from market hunting or guiding.

Metis students get funding for post secondary education to give them a headstart. They should be able to make it on their own merit after that.

The test is described at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v._Powley

Very simply " A pre-control test establishing when Europeans achieved political and legal control in an area and focusing on the period after a particular Métis community arose and before it came under the control of European laws and customs is necessary to accommodate this history.[2]

This means that as long as a Métis group of people established a community that was distinctive from the Aboriginal people they were associated with and was not under the control of the European settlers than it can be considered to have special rights that are recognised in the Canadian Constitution Act, 1982, sections 25 and 35.[3]"

[Thickhorn]

Originally Posted by kingjames30-378

Like the one post on hear calling us IDIOTS.
man i would love to find you on the street. Looks like racism is alive and well isnt it.

Originally Posted by Thickhorn

Its time these idiots take some responsibility for this garbage. By idiots I mean the guys that are using thier status cards to kill rams.

Read the post again, man. There's a world of difference between what was posted in the other thread and what you're implying. Putting rasict words in other people's mouths - it sounds to me like you're the one who's keeping racism alive and well.

[dkalin]

Im matis , but i think its more important to to be able to mange animal population so there will be hunting for years to come. This crap about hunting for food is a joke, its almost cheeper to buy. We live in a time now that we have to manage animal numbers, no one should have a right to kill as many animals as they want, have it so you can have a free licence and tags but obay like every one alse that cares.no one cared about being a metis untill our government made the big mistake,now every one wants special rights.

[NoKlu]

My cousin was just granted Metis status a few years ago. At 45 the change in him was incredible. As soon as he found out he started going to all the Metis meetings and was doing everything he could fighting for rights. He signed up for every program he could find for free stuff for himself and his children. The day after the Metis were given the right for subsistence hunting in BC he went and shot a moose. This guy had not been hunting or shot an animal for probably 15 years. His wife is a registered nurse so between the two on them there income was well in the 6 figure mark so they are not going hungry. The only interest he has is in the free ride. I've only talked to him once since the moose thing and it was a big argument. We were very close growing up so I was able to tell him exactly what I thought of his new found rights and how he was abusing them. His wife has left and now his favorite activity is drinking himself into oblivion. What a waste.

[Jamie Black R/T]

are there people out there who actually think hunting is cheaper than buying meat?!?!

In missed work days, fuel and gear...i dont save a penny...in fact I pay a premium for quality wild meat and time in the field.

[dkalin]

Our govenment makes these mistakes because the wrong people that dont care make the rules, we have to care for our animal population, by not welcoming there decision ,If we choose to kill as much as we want when we want we will have nothing left, there are set quotas for a reason , also seasons,

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by NoKlu

My cousin was just granted Metis status a few years ago. At 45 the change in him was incredible. As soon as he found out he started going to all the Metis meetings and was doing everything he could fighting for rights. He signed up for every program he could find for free stuff for himself and his children. The day after the Metis were given the right for subsistence hunting in BC he went and shot a moose. This guy had not been hunting or shot an animal for probably 15 years. His wife is a registered nurse so between the two on them there income was well in the 6 figure mark so they are not going hungry. The only interest he has is in the free ride. I've only talked to him once since the moose thing and it was a big argument. We were very close growing up so I was able to tell him exactly what I thought of his new found rights and how he was abusing them. His wife has left and now his favorite activity is drinking himself into oblivion. What a waste.

I don't know where you got this tidbit of information?? The Metis in BC have never been given the right to subsistence hunt. In fact it is clearly stated in the BC regulations that Metis living in BC must purchase tags, licenses, and follow the hunting regulations.;

[antlercarver]

Are the "hunters " who buy the large antlers or meat killed by year round shooters the cause of the problem? If there was no demand there would be no supply. There are those from both sides willing to take advantage of a law.Year round harvesters can eat only so much, which I think is not the real problem. There are unethical people in every grope from street people to white collar professionals. The focus on large antlers, having a trophy, contributes to dollar value and creates a demand. Metis never used to hunt trophys. Sorry for the ramble about my opinion.

[Roughneck Country]

I think the ruling makes sense based on his reasoning. In my opinion everyone should follow the same rules. Also how can SRD manage the population of game effectivly if there is an element of society that can harvest as many animals as they want?!?! I know there are all kinds of special rights and privledges to certain groups out there but I can't see how hunting with a 300 Win Mag resembles anything like traditional hunting. If hunting was being done to preserve culture and was done in traditional ways that would be one thing but I find it hard to have empathy for these "traditions" when they don't resemble anything like the historical ways in which the people hunted. Anyway thats just me ranting.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T

are there people out there who actually think hunting is cheaper than buying meat?!?!

In missed work days, fuel and gear...i dont save a penny...in fact I pay a premium for quality wild meat and time in the field.

100% agree!

[great white whaler]

we are all metis

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T

are there people out there who actually think hunting is cheaper than buying meat?!?!

In missed work days, fuel and gear...i dont save a penny...in fact I pay a premium for quality wild meat and time in the field.

If you buy tree stands, trail cams, camo and have a safe full of rifles with top notch glass on them, then no, not cheaper.

If you hunt in jeans, use the 30-06 you've had for 20 years and hunt on Saturday ten miles from your house, then yes.

I spend more than the meat I get is worth, but I know people who have fed their families that way because of $.

[sjemac]

I calculated once that my venison was costing me about $1.65/pound of boneless meat. So yeah, you can hunt meat cheaper than you can buy it. This year I spent considerably more since I took a trip to Southern AB to hunt deer.

Now ducks? That's costing me about $40 a pound of boneless meat.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sjemac

I calculated once that my venison was costing me about $1.65/pound of boneless meat. So yeah, you can hunt meat cheaper than you can buy it. This year I spent considerably more since I took a trip to Southern AB to hunt deer.

Now ducks? That's costing me about $40 a pound of boneless meat.

I think it all depends on the depreciation rate you select for your equipment.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I think it all depends on the depreciation rate you select for your equipment.

It does. I put it at 10 years for the rifle and scope. Since I've been hunting with the rifle for 13 years, it's now "paid for".

[deerhuntercentral]

Originally Posted by NoKlu

My cousin was just granted Metis status a few years ago. At 45 the change in him was incredible. As soon as he found out he started going to all the Metis meetings and was doing everything he could fighting for rights. He signed up for every program he could find for free stuff for himself and his children. The day after the Metis were given the right for subsistence hunting in BC he went and shot a moose. This guy had not been hunting or shot an animal for probably 15 years. His wife is a registered nurse so between the two on them there income was well in the 6 figure mark so they are not going hungry. The only interest he has is in the free ride. I've only talked to him once since the moose thing and it was a big argument. We were very close growing up so I was able to tell him exactly what I thought of his new found rights and how he was abusing them. His wife has left and now his favorite activity is drinking himself into oblivion. What a waste.

I hear you, for my cousin that is still following the rules, I have another that I won't talk to or won't hunt with anymore. He just got his card and he's about 1/32 native, he's whiter than I am. I saw him 2 days ago and asked him if he got his deer, he says "nah I will go out when it quiets down" meaning he will be out in December. I wanted to tell him what a piece of **** he is but he's too ignorant to clue in, so I just walked away.

[elkhunter11]

The decision reached by the judge was the correct one.However,we still need to keep working to end all of the legislated racism in Canada.Until all Canadians are equal under the law,and we all have the same rights,Canada will never be as great a country as it could be.

[TakDriver00]

Someone brought up a point and I just want to expand on it a bit..

If an Indian shoots (legally) a Boone and Crockett deer outside of the "regular" rifle season, can he/she enter it as a book deer?

[glen d.]

Yes, yes good old Canada, the land of special privilages for this group and that group .... really in the big picture where in the hell are these special privilages going to lead to .... trouble!

[Lefty-Canuck]

I think any animal entered in the book has to follow the defined "fair chase" standards. I believe part of the "fair chase" rules is the animal must be taken under the authority of a valid tag during a valid season. So I think an animal taken under native hunting rights not during a defined season and without having been tagged I would guess the answer is no?

[Arn?Narn.]

I love all my Metis brothers and sisters and won't let a small represenation of the people, with the people.

There is a post above about a guy claiming a story about his cousin in BC finding out he is Metis. The story is a manipulated lie, made up for no other eason than to fan a flame.

why anyone would make such things and outright lies and manipulation of such a story is beyond me...

Disgusting post...

[NoKlu]

Here's one little tidbit



Cranbrook Daily Townsman - May 1, 2000

B.C. Métis win landmark decision in Cranbrook court
By Dean Bassett
Staff Writer

A potential landmark decision by a provincial court judge affirmed, for the first time, the inherent rights of British Columbia's Métis peoples.
On Friday, Judge Don Waurynchuk ruled that five Métis men, charged with numerous offences under B.C. Wildlife Act, were exercising their aboriginal rights to hunt without licenses, as well as, hunt out of season.
"The evidence presented at trial indicates, unequivocally, that the government of British Columbia has not recognized or affirmed the aboriginal hunting rights of its Métis citizens," Waurynchuk said. "In this case, I find that the aboriginal right of Métis people in British Columbia to hunt moose and deer is interfered with by the regulatory scheme currently in place."
Waurynchuk said all of the defendants met their onus in showing that they had an aboriginal right to hunt pursuant to Section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982. "And accordingly the charges against the accused are dismissed," Waurynchuk said.
Not surprisingly the judge's decision was welcome news for the five defendants and their lawyer.
"I'm very pleased with the decision and I know my clients are extremely pleased with it," said Victoria lawyer Joseph Gereluk, who represented the men for a portion of the proceedings. "Certainly with respect to the Métis people of B.C. it has certain ramifications that I think are very important and very timely."
The five men - Dan LaFrance, John Grant House, Leonel Courchaine, Frederick Laboucane and John Pratt - organized two hunts in October 1997 near Cranbrook. The Crown stayed charges against a sixth man.
"This just isn't about hunting, trapping and fishing rights," said Dan LaFrance from his Vancouver Island home Sunday morning. "We are finally recognized as aboriginal people with inherent rights."
He said, "That was a huge question, 'Do the Métis people in B.C. have a constitutional right under Section 35 (of Canada's Constitution Act) to hunt, trap and fish?'"
Gereluk said it's time Métis should be included in discussions about any issues surrounding their rights with the provincial government.
"That, it seems to me, has not been happening," Gereluk said. "These decisions of course will assist in making sure that takes place."
In his reasons for judgment, Waurynchuk described the hunt as a protest hunt. However, LaFrance said the hunt's primary focus was to get food for the winter. "We needed the meat," LaFrance said.
It wasn't until conservation officers stepped in that the issue moved into a constitutional challenge.
Conservation officers charged the men with a variety of offences including hunting without a license, carrying a firearm without a license, killing a bull moose and whitetail deer out of season, as well as, possession of a moose and whitetail deer carcasses without permits.
In total, the men faced 14 charges under the B.C. Wildlife Act.
None of the defendants ever objected to the Crown's case.
However, they all pleaded not guilty to the charges. The five argued that they, as Métis, were entitled, as aboriginals, to hunt "for moose and deer to provide winter food for their families."
In doing so, the five men asked that the various sections of B.C.'s Wildlife Act they were charged under be declared unconstitutional because it infringes on their aboriginal rights as Métis.
"This was the first time ever in Canada that six Métis people were charged on the same infractions," LaFrance said.
Throughout most of the trial, which started in earnest last September, the five men defended themselves. Gereluk helped by arguing the submissions.
"This was done by grassroots people with no help from the Métis association," LaFrance said. "In fact, the (Métis Provincial Council of British Columbia) wanted us to plead guilty, pay fines and do some community time."
He added, "We believed our rights were always there but to get recognition was hard, until April 28."

[Arn?Narn.]

Can someone please provide the information that says the government of British Columbia has recognized the right of Metis people to substinence hunting...

[NoKlu]

Is the first line in the article I provided not clear enough for you Arn? It was for my cousin.

[deerhuntercentral]

It's unfortunate there is no political will or energy in this country to shut bull**** like this down, it's easy to sit here and complain about it but has anyone ever bothered to organize anything to shut down the garbage that goes on in this country with such things? Let's all sit here and complain to each other on a forum but not do anything? Lets hope for politicians and judges to make the best decisions and choices for us? How about some of you guys in here bitching that have a higher profile in the outdoors community? Maybe you should be doing more?