Mature Spike Buck?

TakDriver00 · #1 12-01-2010, 08:18 AM

This is gonna sound out of left field but I have to resolve this argument.

Question: is it possible for a spike buck to be mature? (at least 4 years old) My buddy shot a spike buck and I saw photos of it (spikes were about 6" long) and I said, "cool, you got yourself a 1.5-2.5 year old" He got defensive and told me that this spike buck was at least 4 years old and was probably the biggest buck I will see this season!

So tell me is this possible? And if it is, how probable or likely is this?

I've tried to do a search on this but keep coming up snake eyes. There doesn't seem to be any information to support this claim.

Thanks for any info..

Pixel Shooter · #2 12-01-2010, 08:39 AM

I cant say I have ever heard aging deer by antler size. One of the ways you can determine age of the deer is using
a tooth replacement/wear method. You can read here. One way to end the argument

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/...es/deer/aging/

KegRiver · #3 12-01-2010, 08:43 AM

I'm sure it's possible. It seems to me that if a buck can have 20 or more points, (non-typical) they could well go the other way and never grow more then spikes.

But I can't say that I have ever seen it.

TakDriver00 · #4 12-01-2010, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter

I cant say I have ever heard aging deer by antler size. One of the ways you can determine age of the deer is using
a tooth replacement/wear method. You can read here. One way to end the argument

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/...es/deer/aging/

Sadly, that's not an option or I would have done that myself. (the jaw is not available anymore)

Just wondering who else has shot a "mature" WT with only spikes? Not many, I suspect..lol

aulrich · #5 12-01-2010, 09:52 AM

The first few years I hunted Alberta I hunted the porcupine hills and at the time it was general with a 3 point rule, there was this fork horn that lived between Clarshome and the hills that had bases darn near the size of his eye, and he had the look of an old deer.

But like it was said the teeth will say for sure

yamaha 1 · #6 12-01-2010, 10:06 AM

Do you have any pic's of this deer? Field photoes ect. the pic's may just help.

Ryry4 · #7 12-01-2010, 10:14 AM

I saw a whitetail a few years ago that just had a main beam on both sides with now points on it at all. I also saw a mulie buck that had to be close to 30" wide and was only a fork horn on both sides. Genetics play a huge role in antler growth and if a deers got lousy genetics you get lousy antler growth.

BuckHunterBowen · #8 12-01-2010, 10:14 AM

anythi can happen i got a buddie who got video of a fawn with spots that has a seven inch spike lol

u_cant_rope_the_wind · #9 12-01-2010, 10:24 AM

simple way to answer that, just take a couple teeth eye teeth preferably and a dremmil tool and cut the teeth count the rings, I beleieve you are very rt though that deer was 1 1/2 year old

TakDriver00 · #10 12-01-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u_cant_rope_the_wind

simple way to answer that, just take a couple teeth eye teeth preferably and a dremmil tool and cut the teeth count the rings, I beleieve you are very rt though that deer was 1 1/2 year old

I KNOW what the simple answer is. But as I indicated the jaw is NOT available anymore.

But back to genetics..do you think it is possible for a mature deer (4.5 yr) to sport 6-7" spikes?? Or even better, he suggested that the deer's antlers shrunk! LOL! Yeah, they shrink after around 6.5 years of age but not THAT much!

I say, no way not a chance. And I'm not a gamblin' man, but I would bet the farm on that one.

I'll try to put up a photo..

elkoholik · #11 12-01-2010, 10:49 AM

Any idea of the weight of the animal? most mature bucks tend to bigger, noticabely larger than a 2yr old spiker.

u_cant_rope_the_wind · #12 12-01-2010, 11:10 AM

(But back to genetics..do you think it is possible for a mature deer (4.5 yr) to sport 6-7" spikes?? Or even better, he suggested that the deer's antlers shrunk! LOL! Yeah, they shrink after around 6.5 years of age but not THAT much)

Not a chance even a 9 or 10 year old that is going down hill will at least have a couple point not just spikes

elkhunter11 · #13 12-01-2010, 11:22 AM

I have never seen a mature spike deer,so in my opinion,it is possible,but very unlikely.It is more likely that your friend is just used to shoting small deer.

rottie · #14 12-01-2010, 11:29 AM

Backpacking on the North Burnt Timber a few years back I ran into a buck with the widest,highest forked antlers I have ever seen. The antlers were way outside of his ears and tall as well. I watched this buck for a good hour or so at less than a hundred yards,he had the pot belly of a mature buck,moved like an old man and in general gave the indications of being an older animal.

So in my opinion yes its possible to have a older mature buck with spikes or forked antlers,genetics may be against him

Ian

RayL42 · #15 12-01-2010, 12:08 PM

What led your hunting buddy to estimate the age at 4 ½?

How big was the Deer?

I would say if it is possible to have a 4 ½ year old spiker it is just as likely to have a 2 ½ year old buck with a giant body.

Mountain Guy · #16 12-01-2010, 12:18 PM

What did the spikes look like??
Were they small & thin? Were they 14'' long and 6'' bases?? You should be able to have a good idea from the size of the spikes.

TakDriver00 · #17 12-02-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayL42

What led your hunting buddy to estimate the age at 4 ½?

How big was the Deer?

I would say if it is possible to have a 4 ½ year old spiker it is just as likely to have a 2 ½ year old buck with a giant body.

That's what I said! But he's pretty sensitive..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

What did the spikes look like??
Were they small & thin? Were they 14'' long and 6'' bases?? You should be able to have a good idea from the size of the spikes.

Good question! I'm gong to post a photo this evening and finally get to the bottom of this.

Flight01 · #18 12-02-2010, 09:40 AM

can't say i saw a deer like that but i saw a moose like it, big bull that i would put at 3.5 to 4.5 years old but just 2 big spikes just like a young spiker but super thick!

TakDriver00 · #19 12-02-2010, 04:16 PM

Here it is. The spikes are what you see. They don't really extend much further than what you see in the photo. I know, terrible photo but you get the drift. It's not even really "big" in my opinion. In fact, it's a small spike buck...that's it! I mean seriously, does this look like a big buck to you?? Hahaha

mulecrazy · #20 12-02-2010, 04:20 PM

100% without a doubt it is a 1.5 year old buck. your buddy is trying to sell you some damaged goods. very small body.

KegRiver · #21 12-02-2010, 04:42 PM

I agree with mulecrazy, it a particularly large bodied 1 1/2 year old.

TakDriver00 · #22 12-02-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I agree with mulecrazy, it a particularly large bodied 1 1/2 year old.

Are any of these particularly large bodied to you? Just trying to get a reference...

KegRiver · #23 12-02-2010, 05:31 PM

there is nothing in your last photo to give clues as to size of the body.

In the photo of the hanging deer there are several, the man beside it for instance.

In my experience a 1 1/2 year old buck would not be over six feet from nose to tail as it appears this buck is. And here I'm guessing at the persons height.
It also doesn't seem to have the bulk, the thick neck and chest of a mature deer. And as others have pointed out, the spikes should be much thicker.
All this is the most likely case IMO. I think it is still possible this is a mature buck, 4 or more years old, I just think it is unlikely given his appearance.

Big Red 250 · #24 12-02-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

100% without a doubt it is a 1.5 year old buck. your buddy is trying to sell you some damaged goods. very small body.

I agree also.

Mountain Guy · #25 12-02-2010, 05:36 PM

Ahh.. I missed that it may have been in Ontario ??
I woulda said that deer is fersure 1.5 year old....at least in Alberta.
Out east may be a different story.

TakDriver00 · #26 12-02-2010, 05:47 PM

The person beside the buck is a woman...she's 5'4"

This is an average, at best, 1.5 year old Ontario white tail buck. This is my opinion based on my experience. But I wanted to get others opinions and the consensus is that it is what it is...1.5 year old.

KegRiver · #27 12-02-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakDriver00

The person beside the buck is a woman...she's 5'4"

This is an average, at best, 1.5 year old Ontario white tail buck. This is my opinion based on my experience. But I wanted to get others opinions and the consensus is that it is what it is...1.5 year old.

I thought the hand looked rather feminine. Still makes the buck at least 6 feet from nose to tail.

Maybe that is normal for Ontario bucks, not many 1 1/2 year olds in my area would be that big. At least I don' think so.

I handle up to 100 or more dead deer every year but I've never put a tape on one yet. I'm just guessing from how they fit in a full sized pickup box.
And I know I can load all but the largest whole deer, by myself.
You buck looks to me to be as large as any I have seen. Or loaded.

bb356 · #28 12-02-2010, 06:39 PM

ontario alberta texas saskatchewan nebraska ohio maine it doesnt matter !!!!!! a small spike immature buck !!

TakDriver00 · #29 12-02-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb356

ontario alberta texas saskatchewan nebraska ohio maine it doesnt matter !!!!!! a small spike immature buck !!

LOL! Nicely put. And I agree 1000%.

It doesn't matter where on global earth it is from. A spike buck is a spike buck. Sure, some are larger than others but....my buddy telling me that this is a mature buck is like saying that Chinese kid over there is old and mature. Or that black kid is old, or that white kid is old. A kid is a kid is a kid, no matter where your are from.

Mxyzptik · #30 12-02-2010, 07:17 PM

Never saw an old whitetail spiked but some years back when we had a 3 point or better tag in 510 on mule deer I did. The spikes were at least 16 inches long and reasonably thick at the bases. I saw him several times that season and he had a longer nose and an older looking face like a mature buck has. No way it was a young buck

The buck in the pictures looks like a 1 1/2 year old to me though. They're not all the same size at that age . Some were either born a little earlier, have better genetics or got better grub but hung side by each on a meat pole some of them are better specimens .