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12-02-2010, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Grimshaw,ALberta
Posts: 131
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What you think he scores
Just seein what you guys think this whitey will score.
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12-02-2010, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: High Prairie
Posts: 1,936
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153
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Sittin' here waitin' on a deer, drinkin' beer and wastin' bullets, Aimin' at the empties, missin' hittin' pine trees, It ain't my fault them cans keep movin', My baby's on the phone sayin' baby come home, Where you been and What you've been doin', We'll I've been, sittin' here, waitin' on a deer
Drinkin' beer and wastin' bullets
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12-02-2010, 07:51 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,260
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147ish...
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12-02-2010, 07:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Drumheller
Posts: 2,666
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High 140's to low 150's. missing G4's kill the score on bucks like this. Nice set of horn.
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12-02-2010, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Westlock
Posts: 590
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140 tops
It's always interesting to me these threads that ask for scores.
No offense to some very nice bucks but I'll make a couple of observations:
Time after time those guessing are 10 to 20 inches of antlers high in their estimates IMO.
Guys always say mine scores xyz GROSS. A gross score is just a score sheet that hasn't been finished yet, that's not his score. You haven't finished yet.
Like it or not the scoring system is what it is. Subtract the deductions and use the net score, that's how it works.
Now this is a dandy buck but;
- it's a 4x5 from the pictures which serious affects the score
- he has some mass but not huge
- he has some width but isn't huge
- his brows ran,t real long
- his G2's look to be no more than 10 inches
Now this is a dandy buck but.......
IMO he would NET anymore than 140 ish and if the rest of the bucks scored here were scored properly then 140 ish wouldn't be so bad.
Not trying to start a fight it's just my opinion, oh and by the way.
That is a dandy buck !
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12-02-2010, 08:37 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxyzptik
It's always interesting to me these threads that ask for scores.
No offense to some very nice bucks but I'll make a couple of observations:
Time after time those guessing are 10 to 20 inches of antlers high in their estimates IMO.
Guys always say mine scores xyz GROSS. A gross score is just a score sheet that hasn't been finished yet, that's not his score. You haven't finished yet.
Like it or not the scoring system is what it is. Subtract the deductions and use the net score, that's how it works.
Now this is a dandy buck but;
- it's a 4x5 from the pictures which serious affects the score
- he has some mass but not huge
- he has some width but isn't huge
- his brows ran,t real long
- his G2's look to be no more than 10 inches
Now this is a dandy buck but.......
IMO he would NET anymore than 140 ish and if the rest of the bucks scored here were scored properly then 140 ish wouldn't be so bad.
Not trying to start a fight it's just my opinion, oh and by the way.
That is a dandy buck !
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Well, I have only learned the score for one of the bucks I guessed at here.
But you are right it seems, I guessed about 10 high.
I agree with everything you say about this buck but I would have guessed 150 or close. In light of the only guess that I know the outcome of, I have to knock off about 10 and that puts me in agreement with you. Again!
See, I'm learning! 
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12-02-2010, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Drumheller
Posts: 2,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxyzptik
It's always interesting to me these threads that ask for scores.
No offense to some very nice bucks but I'll make a couple of observations:
Time after time those guessing are 10 to 20 inches of antlers high in their estimates IMO.
Guys always say mine scores xyz GROSS. A gross score is just a score sheet that hasn't been finished yet, that's not his score. You haven't finished yet.
Like it or not the scoring system is what it is. Subtract the deductions and use the net score, that's how it works.
Now this is a dandy buck but;
- it's a 4x5 from the pictures which serious affects the score
- he has some mass but not huge
- he has some width but isn't huge
- his brows ran,t real long
- his G2's look to be no more than 10 inches
Now this is a dandy buck but.......
IMO he would NET anymore than 140 ish and if the rest of the bucks scored here were scored properly then 140 ish wouldn't be so bad.
Not trying to start a fight it's just my opinion, oh and by the way.
That is a dandy buck !
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I can see where you are coming from. If you want to actually pay the money to have it put in the B&C or P&Y book then the net score is rellevant. Just because there is a little lack in symmetry that does not in any way shape or form diminish the fact that the buck is a trophy to the person who shot it and many others on here. You will see on here that MOST give score estimates with the Gross score, and that is for a reason. When a buck wins a fight against another, please explain to me how symmetry comes into effect? It has more to do with the shear body and antler size total that is the deciding factor. Heck, if the buck is bigger and grows a few kickers his net score is less. How is that Justice? when field judging a buck, there are VERY few who look to what the buck would net score before they shoot.
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12-02-2010, 08:46 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: High Prairie
Posts: 1,936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy
I can see where you are coming from. If you want to actually pay the money to have it put in the B&C or P&Y book then the net score is rellevant. Just because there is a little lack in symmetry that does not in any way shape or form diminish the fact that the buck is a trophy to the person who shot it and many others on here. You will see on here that MOST give score estimates with the Gross score, and that is for a reason. When a buck wins a fight against another, please explain to me how symmetry comes into effect? It has more to do with the shear body and antler size total that is the deciding factor. Heck, if the buck is bigger and grows a few kickers his net score is less. How is that Justice? when field judging a buck, there are VERY few who look to what the buck would net score before they shoot.
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Exactly. You have a 170 typical whitetail in front of you, and a 200 non typical with 40 inches of deductions for B&C walks out. You're gonna shoot the 170? Ha! I see ZERO point in the net scoring.. Give the animal what it grew. Not take from it..
__________________
Sittin' here waitin' on a deer, drinkin' beer and wastin' bullets, Aimin' at the empties, missin' hittin' pine trees, It ain't my fault them cans keep movin', My baby's on the phone sayin' baby come home, Where you been and What you've been doin', We'll I've been, sittin' here, waitin' on a deer
Drinkin' beer and wastin' bullets
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12-02-2010, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Westlock
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy
I can see where you are coming from. If you want to actually pay the money to have it put in the B&C or P&Y book then the net score is rellevant. Just because there is a little lack in symmetry that does not in any way shape or form diminish the fact that the buck is a trophy to the person who shot it and many others on here. You will see on here that MOST give score estimates with the Gross score, and that is for a reason. When a buck wins a fight against another, please explain to me how symmetry comes into effect? It has more to do with the shear body and antler size total that is the deciding factor. Heck, if the buck is bigger and grows a few kickers his net score is less. How is that Justice? when field judging a buck, there are VERY few who look to what the buck would net score before they shoot.
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Look , I totally agree with you. God makes them all different shapes and sizes. I've hunted sheds a lot and found the sheds from the same deer for several years and measured growth and tried to correlate weather and rainfall and all that stuff to growth. I love antlers .....
Antlers are awesome period, I love the feel of them and cut them and polish them for buttons on coats etc but......
The scoring system is just a way to compare one buck to another that's all but don't tell me that guys give out gross scores because their buck beat the other one in a fight. They do it because they're not satisfied with the net score and wish it were bigger. They probably do that because everybody else does thereby diminishing their buck when comparing with the others.
Symmetry doesn't mean squat I agree. I have a buddy who shot a huge old whitetail in 350 Biggest damn deer I ever saw but it didn't score well. I have another buddy who has several deer that actually make Boone and Crockett when he said his was bigger I picked his up and held it completely inside the old boys rack and said. " it doesn't look bigger to me" Man was he choked.
But the fact remains that if a scoring system is going to be meaningful in making comparisons then everyone needs to apply it properly.
Russell Thornberry many years ago advocated a system of water displacement. You would dip each antler up to the pedicle in water and measure how much water it displaces. This way you are only measuring how much antler there is no symmetry, no spread, heck you could have one big fat point instead of many small ones.
It's a thought.
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12-02-2010, 09:16 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Drumheller
Posts: 2,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxyzptik
Look , I totally agree with you. God makes them all different shapes and sizes. I've hunted sheds a lot and found the sheds from the same deer for several years and measured growth and tried to correlate weather and rainfall and all that stuff to growth. I love antlers .....
Antlers are awesome period, I love the feel of them and cut them and polish them for buttons on coats etc but......
The scoring system is just a way to compare one buck to another that's all but don't tell me that guys give out gross scores because their buck beat the other one in a fight. They do it because they're not satisfied with the net score and wish it were bigger. They probably do that because everybody else does thereby diminishing their buck when comparing with the others.
Symmetry doesn't mean squat I agree. I have a buddy who shot a huge old whitetail in 350 Biggest damn deer I ever saw but it didn't score well. I have another buddy who has several deer that actually make Boone and Crockett when he said his was bigger I picked his up and held it completely inside the old boys rack and said. " it doesn't look bigger to me" Man was he choked.
But the fact remains that if a scoring system is going to be meaningful in making comparisons then everyone needs to apply it properly.
Russell Thornberry many years ago advocated a system of water displacement. You would dip each antler up to the pedicle in water and measure how much water it displaces. This way you are only measuring how much antler there is no symmetry, no spread, heck you could have one big fat point instead of many small ones.
It's a thought.
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The comments about winning the fight were in reference to the fact that bucks with superior genetics will pass on their genes, generally the ones with larger antlers will win. Ie)nature couldn't care less about symmetry. Most guys give the gross score as it far more accurately shows the size of the antlers. You say it is just the way it is and everyone must do it that way. I disagree. That is just the way B&C and P&Y do it. SCI does not take symmetry into effect. I have noticed more and more, the popularity that SCI is gaining with outdoorsmen. It is not about helping self ego or feeling slighted. It is about giving credit where credit is due. There are many opinions on the matter, and I think we can both agree to disagree. However, I like to look at what is the feeling of most alberta outdoorsmen. You will notice a vast majority of posters on here will give the gross score as a guess. Same goes for the 4x4 or 3x3 juging debate. The poll clearly shows that most here will count the brows as points on WT. But there are still the odd guy that will refuse to change. I have changed my view on scoring (I used to give net scores) and counting points. Some people are what you call C.A.V.E people (citizens against virtually everything). change is difficult.
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12-02-2010, 09:19 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 695
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how about this one?
I always thought somewhere between 140 and 150 Gross.
What do you think?
Regardless, he was from one my favorite hunts and a "dandy" as one great old timer once told me...
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12-02-2010, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Westlock
Posts: 590
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I actually don't think we are disagreeing that much. I remember a very interesting presentation I listened to by Dr. Valorous Giest. It was years ago but I believe his claim was that the big picture perfect bucks were often actually the pretty boys and didn't necessarily do all the breeding His claim was that the gnarly hard lookin buggers were the breeders.
My point about giving the score is this though. If you say it scores 140 then the inference is that is using the Boone and Crockett scoring system and not another system
So if everyone used it properly, a 140 net typical is still bigger than a 130 net typical. However, the first time the guy with the 130 rounds up by using his gross score and says his was actually 142 then everyone does it.
That's all I meant
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12-02-2010, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Westlock
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alder
I always thought somewhere between 140 and 150 Gross.
What do you think?
Regardless, he was from one my favorite hunts and a "dandy" as one great old timer once told me...
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That is a dandy, That's the shape of rack I like best and he is a real pretty deer too. I hope you did a full shoulder mount.
I don't suspect there would be much difference between gross and net on this one just the little g4 on his left side other wise it's very even and a real nice buck.
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Last edited by Mxyzptik; 12-02-2010 at 09:37 PM.
Reason: Forgot to add
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12-02-2010, 10:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Slave Lake
Posts: 5,639
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Tappen your buck will gross 150 give or take a few inches either way..
Nets are for fisherman....
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12-02-2010, 10:09 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,772
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Tappen, I'll agree with the others, gross high 140s.
Alder, gross mid 130's
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12-02-2010, 10:16 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 345
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I'd say about 147-148
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12-02-2010, 10:29 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 695
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ah, I see. I hijacked. Apologies, I'm new here.
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12-02-2010, 11:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,576
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Sometimes I wonder if the more we get caught up in the scores, the more headless deer we'll find in the mornings. 212 was brutal this year....... 
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12-02-2010, 11:45 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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The scoring system caters to perfectly symmetrical racks with tine length being a huge portion. The thing that drives me crazy is the mass of the tines are not taken into account. You can have 10 inch pencils for tines and get the same scoring as 10 inch daggers with 4 inches of circumference. I feel a dunk tank with water displacement should be how racks are scored. And I don't worry about Net scores I just look at Gross. As someone said on here already if a 190 inch whitetail with 30 inches of deductions stands next to a 160 inch 5x5 with no deductions there is no way they should be in the same category. Just my opinion.
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12-02-2010, 11:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 8,815
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Your buck will be right close to 150".
Nice buck!
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12-03-2010, 12:02 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinO
if a 190 inch whitetail with 30 inches of deductions stands next to a 160 inch 5x5 with no deductions there is no way they should be in the same category. Just my opinion.
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I totally agree.
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12-03-2010, 06:13 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tappen
just seein what you guys think this whitey will score.
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133.5" net and 140" gross
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12-03-2010, 06:19 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: The elbow of Alberta
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If I can't see the ears I find it hard to judge, mid to low 140's for the gross.
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12-03-2010, 06:24 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
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Tappen; I think your Deer is a perfect example of what is wrong with how we score Deer.
That's a good looking rack from a fully mature buck. He's got good length and good width and plenty of mass, but he will also have more then enough deductions to offset that.
He looks to me to be about 120 or 125 net, and that's a shame. He deserves a lot better.
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12-03-2010, 08:26 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Devon, AB
Posts: 572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkaholic6
Exactly. You have a 170 typical whitetail in front of you, and a 200 non typical with 40 inches of deductions for B&C walks out. You're gonna shoot the 170? Ha! I see ZERO point in the net scoring.. Give the animal what it grew. Not take from it..
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I couldnt agree more, net is for fishermen.
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12-03-2010, 08:40 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonecollector10
I couldnt agree more, net is for fishermen.
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X2
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12-03-2010, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On a farm
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i think it would gross about 135-140 ! thats it ! 
Still like the buck and congrats, but the score is only a small part of the whole picture !
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12-03-2010, 08:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
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All very interesting,..and I agree that a trophy is a trophy to whomever took it. Scores are only for interest to me.
How do you think this one would score?..judging by one I took in 1997 which scores 147 gross, I think this guy is about the same...he's 2" narrower but has longer tines and more mass.
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