Alberta as 51st US State

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by depolloc

Agreed, I’m at a loss of words for Kenney, had such high hopes. I gave up my UCP membership because of him. Lots of talk, no action.

And what is he supposed to do to get Transmountain or Tech built? What is he supposed to do about Alberta being forced to pay for Quebec's handouts? There is nothing he can do about any of these things, because they are federal jurisdiction.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by grouse_hunter

I'm very comfortable financially. I would receive the care that I would need.

However if I had a serious medical episode and I knew that I had a few years left, I'd rather die and direct the funds which would be used to sustain me to a charitable cause. Probably grouse or pheasant oriented...

I haven't looked into the legalities of assisted suicide in Canada just yet. I'll cross that bridge if I ever get there.

Excellent, carry on & proceed forth, I applaud you/your situation & lookout on life as it is totally justified.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by depolloc

Agreed, I’m at a loss of words for Kenney, had such high hopes. I gave up
my UCP membership because of him. Lots of talk, no action.

He's trying..not succeeding, but trying nonetheless.

https://twitter.com/jkenney

[NinjaHunter]

To be honest, don't really care at this point. Canada is heading to the state of Venezuela/any failed state of communism.

And even if change Alberta from Canadian territory to US territory, the main problem will still be the same. I.e. the same people that voted in horrible policies for short term gain/perceived free-gibs will vote in horrible policies for short term gain/free-gibs.

Can't wait to leave this country.

[Osky]

I am not advocating you folks go one way or another. There sure is a bunch of nonsense being said about American healthcare here.
First of all if you are hurt, in an accident, emergency whatever you will be treated. No hospital can refuse you.
Second it is very very common for your employer to offer health insurance to you or at least pay part of it. That's why people try to advance.
( as a side note many many trades and industries also pay for your education )
Third If you are poor, they have Medicade here, insurance for very very little if anything.
Fourth if you are older, at 65 you can apply for Medicare, again govt health insurance for a fractional cost if any.
Fifth there are many other affordable variations. If anyone knows "many" who have lost everything, nonsense, there are many ways to have it worked out.
Healthcare was very affordable here across the board until the previous socialist administration passed obama care and forced there way into our lives trying to do away with competitive pricing which we had from different insurers.
The government knocked out tons of insurers and many of us myself included now pay more than double what we did. Single payer is a horrible plan here.

A note on wage.. Here in MN tradesman, carpenters, electricians plumbers etc Union wage is mid 40's per hour now. Plus they and there families get insurance co pay. Their next contract in a couple years will put those guys at over 50.00.
Many tradesman make much more than that in the larger cities and states around the US.

Osky

[Tfng]

Osky that’s good money for trades. $50 an hour is top end in this area.

[Osky]

Originally Posted by Tfng

Osky that’s good money for trades. $50 an hour is top end in this area.

Yes most Union tradesman who are journeyman will be at that number in the next two years or so plus of course insurance and 401k and pension.

I forgot to add to the list of insurance coverages in America another. In Minnesota if a person is under a certain income level there is MNsure which is a state funded program giving coverage. I believe other states have a version of this as well but I cannot confirm that.

For you folks talking about becoming the 51st, consider something... If you secede what happens to BC? You are cutting them off from the east lest they cross your territory. Seems you folks could could stay independent, cut a deal with BC, they give you free port access an easement to get to it and in return you let the trains, trucks, and all other goods cross your province. Basic idea, a lot of minutiae could be worked out and added. Just a thought.

Osky

[NinjaHunter]

Originally Posted by Osky

I am not advocating you folks go one way or another. There sure is a bunch of nonsense being said about American healthcare here.
First of all if you are hurt, in an accident, emergency whatever you will be treated. No hospital can refuse you.
Second it is very very common for your employer to offer health insurance to you or at least pay part of it. That's why people try to advance.
( as a side note many many trades and industries also pay for your education )
Third If you are poor, they have Medicade here, insurance for very very little if anything.
Fourth if you are older, at 65 you can apply for Medicare, again govt health insurance for a fractional cost if any.
Fifth there are many other affordable variations. If anyone knows "many" who have lost everything, nonsense, there are many ways to have it worked out.
Healthcare was very affordable here across the board until the previous socialist administration passed obama care and forced there way into our lives trying to do away with competitive pricing which we had from different insurers.
The government knocked out tons of insurers and many of us myself included now pay more than double what we did. Single payer is a horrible plan here.

At last! Someone with a brain! And one that actually knew that obama care actually screwed people more than helped

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by Osky

Yes most Union tradesman who are journeyman will be at that number in the next two years or so plus of course insurance and 401k and pension.

I forgot to add to the list of insurance coverages in America another. In Minnesota if a person is under a certain income level there is MNsure which is a state funded program giving coverage. I believe other states have a version of this as well but I cannot confirm that.

For you folks talking about becoming the 51st, consider something... If you secede what happens to BC? You are cutting them off from the east lest they cross your territory. Seems you folks could could stay independent, cut a deal with BC, they give you free port access an easement to get to it and in return you let the trains, trucks, and all other goods cross your province. Basic idea, a lot of minutiae could be worked out and added. Just a thought.

Osky

And a great thought it is. Unfortunately, that is a big part of why people consider the 51st state option. Most of eastern B.C. have no issues with the oil and gas industry. In fact, north eastern B.C. is a major producer of natural gas. The coastal gas link pipeline is totally in B.C. That pipeline was approved in no time. Yes, there are big issues now, but for Indigenous rights reasons. It's mostly the folks in the lower mainland that oppose an oil pipeline. They don't want / won't allow access to tide water while we are all Canadians and supposedly on the same team. Trying to negotiate some sort of deal as non Canadian country would likely be almost impossible.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by EZM

The other thing I keep reading here is how the oil price and oil industry will magically return to the days when we paved the streets with gold ...... while the reality is a border has nothing to do with global oil prices, and nothing would change in this regard.

Very true as far as world prices go. The reality is, at this point, we sell W.C.S. to the U.S. at generally speaking a $21 to $23 U.S. discount compared to W.T.I. Leaving confederation will not change world oil prices, but get the calculator out and figure the numbers for 100k bbl/day. We export more than that. Calculate the daily, monthly, yearly numbers. Buys a whole lot of medicare, police and infrastructure for little ol Alberta!

If that isn't bad enough, the states turn around and sell oil back to qeeeebec at W.T.I prices. Hummmm, $22/ bbl just for showing up. Good deal for somebody!

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by zabbo

And a great thought it is. Unfortunately, that is a big part of why people consider the 51st state option. Most of eastern B.C. have no issues with the oil and gas industry. In fact, north eastern B.C. is a major producer of natural gas. The coastal gas link pipeline is totally in B.C. That pipeline was approved in no time. Yes, there are big issues now, but for Indigenous rights reasons. It's mostly the folks in the lower mainland that oppose an oil pipeline. They don't want / won't allow access to tide water while we are all Canadians and supposedly on the same team. Trying to negotiate some sort of deal as non Canadian country would likely be almost impossible.

Its southern BC that is really the issue. Kamloops North most are in support but lack the voting power. Outside of that FN issues are at a whole different level in BC do to numbers and treaties being farther behind a lot of the country

Unless BC breaks apart I doubt they would join any western separation. They may follow after if BC started to suffer do to new borders but they are more likely to attempt something with a few coastal states

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by zabbo

And a great thought it is. Unfortunately, that is a big part of why people consider the 51st state option. Most of eastern B.C. have no issues with the oil and gas industry. In fact, north eastern B.C. is a major producer of natural gas. The coastal gas link pipeline is totally in B.C. That pipeline was approved in no time. Yes, there are big issues now, but for Indigenous rights reasons. It's mostly the folks in the lower mainland that oppose an oil pipeline. They don't want / won't allow access to tide water while we are all Canadians and supposedly on the same team. Trying to negotiate some sort of deal as non Canadian country would likely be almost impossible.

Not if they ever want to drive a load of lumber across our borders. Either that, or build a road North into the NWT, around us. Essentially the same problem they've given us. But as part of another country, we'd actually have a little more stroke. Especially if we had had someone skilled in "The Art of The Deal..."

Plus, instead of having to deal with goofy Canadian obstructionism, there would be some international laws that would likely work in our favour. Russia just put a pipeline across 28 countries. Pipeline completed in 5 years IIRC from concept, to shipping product. Other countries must laugh at us.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What if they adopted NWT and the Yukon at the same time? Then we could hunt Alaska!

We could still hunt Alaska, just with issues crossing borders. As it is now, the Yukon has good opportunities. Saskatchewan might come along, but I doubt NWT, or the Yukon would, as they're kind of liberal voting.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Not if they ever want to drive a load of lumber across our borders. Either that, or build a road North into the NWT, around us. Essentially the same problem they've given us. But as part of another country, we'd actually have a little more stroke. Especially if we had had someone skilled in "The Art of The Deal..."

Plus, instead of having to deal with goofy Canadian obstructionism, there would be some international laws that would likely work in our favour. Russia just put a pipeline across 28 countries. Pipeline completed in 5 years IIRC from concept, to shipping product. Other countries must laugh at us.

Pretty sure that is true.

Becoming a separate entity might give us more leverage to negotiate, but many of the people we would be dealing with are total wingnuts. The answer is NO, the blinders are on, and that is that!

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Osky

Yes most Union tradesman who are journeyman will be at that number in the next two years or so plus of course insurance and 401k and pension.

I forgot to add to the list of insurance coverages in America another. In Minnesota if a person is under a certain income level there is MNsure which is a state funded program giving coverage. I believe other states have a version of this as well but I cannot confirm that.

For you folks talking about becoming the 51st, consider something... If you secede what happens to BC? You are cutting them off from the east lest they cross your territory. Seems you folks could could stay independent, cut a deal with BC, they give you free port access an easement to get to it and in return you let the trains, trucks, and all other goods cross your province. Basic idea, a lot of minutiae could be worked out and added. Just a thought.

Osky

We're supposed to have free port access now but the government of BC has vowed to block pipeline access to Alberta oil. Albertans are so fed up with BC I don't think most of us care what happens to them. They'd have to figure it out for themselves. We get less from BC than they get from us. There's a lot of good people there too, but the voting majority are anti-Alberta, anti-oil.

[depolloc]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And what is he supposed to do to get Transmountain or Tech built? What is he supposed to do about Alberta being forced to pay for Quebec's handouts? There is nothing he can do about any of these things, because they are federal jurisdiction.

They’ll get built, it might take 40 years, but they’ll eventually get built. While I agree some things are out of his hands, he’s been disappointingly soft on the feds. Playing nice isn’t getting us anywhere. I think if he acknowledges & embraces the idea that Albertans are fed up with Ottawa and actually demonstrates it (call the referendum on equalization regardless of the circumstance) he’d have support. The deck is stacked against us and we all know it (including Kenney). I didn’t want to believe it, but he’s a career politician 1st, premier 2nd.

[Twisted Canuck]

A referendum on equalization would accomplish nothing, as Alberta has no way to opt out or change the formula. It's just a big fat nothing burger waste of time. The only referendum we need to invest in is on separation.

[depolloc]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

A referendum on equalization would accomplish nothing, as Alberta has no way to opt out or change the formula. It's just a big fat nothing burger waste of time. The only referendum we need to invest in is on separation.

-baby steps

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by depolloc

-baby steps

Well...Yes. I suppose.

But if you skip ahead in the movie (What About Bob), you get to the 'bomb therapy'. Sooner or later, Confederation needs to get blown up.

[Texican]

Originally Posted by tri777

He's trying..not succeeding, but trying nonetheless.

https://twitter.com/jkenney

I think his heart is set on moving to new digs at 24 Sussex Drive

[58thecat]

You people sound like those in Quebec....separation...Alberta nation....Quebec nation....I thought we were better than that nonsense?

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

You people sound like those in Quebec....separation...Alberta nation....Quebec nation....I thought we were better than that nonsense?

I thought Canada was better than the nonsense of transferring wealth from one region to another endlessly, while crippling the donor region economically, passing legislation that specifically targets the donor regions resource industry, puts punitive taxes on citizens based on ideology, and panders to vote rich regions that elect them.

If there were any way to fix confederation, level the playing field, and give the west some regional representation and voice in our 'democracy', please enlighten us. As long as we are just the milk cow of Canada, and QC is the recipient of all the cream, then Confederation holds no interest for me. Wars have been fought over taxation without representation.

The status quo is not acceptable. What is nonsense is just living with the BOHICA mentality. Being 'better' means being willing to actually try and change things for the better, and not be content as an indentured serf.

[58thecat]

Peaks and valleys or high and lows is what every province or country goes through just takes time to set her on even keel....when oil was 200 bucks a barrel we seemed even keeled then but as with everything ya gotta ride it out....

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Peaks and valleys or high and lows is what every province or country goes through just takes time to set her on even keel....when oil was 200 bucks a barrel we seemed even keeled then but as with everything ya gotta ride it out....

Don't believe oil has ever been $200 / bbl. $147 is the most I recall. Regardless, at that point we were still getting shafted, but it didn't hurt as much. Now, we're still getting ripped and on top of that our own country is throwing up roadblocks every way we turn! Doesn't do much for unity in my view.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by zabbo

Don't believe oil has ever been $200 / bbl. $147 is the most I recall. Regardless, at that point we were still getting shafted, but it didn't hurt as much. Now, we're still getting ripped and on top of that our own country is throwing up roadblocks every way we turn! Doesn't do much for unity in my view.

your right....hard to have strength in unity when it doesn't exist but still gotta ride this bs out...when is the next election....not soon enough but scared it will swing the same way.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Osky

I am not advocating you folks go one way or another. There sure is a bunch of nonsense being said about American healthcare here.
First of all if you are hurt, in an accident, emergency whatever you will be treated. No hospital can refuse you.
Second it is very very common for your employer to offer health insurance to you or at least pay part of it. That's why people try to advance.
( as a side note many many trades and industries also pay for your education )
Third If you are poor, they have Medicade here, insurance for very very little if anything.
Fourth if you are older, at 65 you can apply for Medicare, again govt health insurance for a fractional cost if any.
Fifth there are many other affordable variations. If anyone knows "many" who have lost everything, nonsense, there are many ways to have it worked out.
Healthcare was very affordable here across the board until the previous socialist administration passed obama care and forced there way into our lives trying to do away with competitive pricing which we had from different insurers.
The government knocked out tons of insurers and many of us myself included now pay more than double what we did. Single payer is a horrible plan here.

A note on wage.. Here in MN tradesman, carpenters, electricians plumbers etc Union wage is mid 40's per hour now. Plus they and there families get insurance co pay. Their next contract in a couple years will put those guys at over 50.00.
Many tradesman make much more than that in the larger cities and states around the US.

Osky

Finally a quote which speaks truth not, just more of the PC koolaid handed out by the MSM here in Kanuckastan.

There are very good reasons why the Central based media in Canada continually bashes ..our Southern Neighbor....it is called money and they would be lost with out ours.

I loved Canada but if your only excuse for staying is our so called "health care" system you should really check out your facts.... Canada rates ~48th. in the world in terms of useless health care and about dead last when it comes to value for dollars spent per individual.... Yes we rate better then the USA but we are FAR from having a GOOD Health Care System.
The Billions we send east for next to ZERO benefit of the average Albertan would be much better served in our own pockets instead of the 1% club in Ottawa.

Would I leave..Yes with conditions.... but the way things are being run now...I see big trouble down the road and soon to be two countries that were once Canada becoming warring, hostile neighbors.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I thought Canada was better than the nonsense of transferring wealth from one region to another endlessly, while crippling the donor region economically, passing legislation that specifically targets the donor regions resource industry, puts punitive taxes on citizens based on ideology, and panders to vote rich regions that elect them.

If there were any way to fix confederation, level the playing field, and give the west some regional representation and voice in our 'democracy', please enlighten us. As long as we are just the milk cow of Canada, and QC is the recipient of all the cream, then Confederation holds no interest for me. Wars have been fought over taxation without representation.

The status quo is not acceptable. What is nonsense is just living with the BOHICA mentality. Being 'better' means being willing to actually try and change things for the better, and not be content as an indentured serf.

Look where transfer payments are going in Quebec.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cree-visio...001406123.html

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by lmtada

Look where transfer payments are going in Quebec.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cree-visio...001406123.html

'It's not a pipeline'....and will the locomotive run on sunshine and traditional drumming? How bloody PC and feel good.

Yep. Put me down for 'seperate'.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Finally a quote which speaks truth not, just more of the PC koolaid handed out by the MSM here in Kanuckastan.

There are very good reasons why the Central based media in Canada continually bashes ..our Southern Neighbor....it is called money and they would be lost with out ours.

I loved Canada but if your only excuse for staying is our so called "health care" system you should really check out your facts.... Canada rates ~48th. in the world in terms of useless health care and about dead last when it comes to value for dollars spent per individual.... Yes we rate better then the USA but we are FAR from having a GOOD Health Care System.
The Billions we send east for next to ZERO benefit of the average Albertan would be much better served in our own pockets instead of the 1% club in Ottawa.

Would I leave..Yes with conditions.... but the way things are being run now...I see big trouble down the road and soon to be two countries that were once Canada becoming warring, hostile neighbors.

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...nprogress.html

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by lmtada

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...nprogress.html

Thats a good article, I read that just this morning! Lots of truth in there. I have the AT on my phone homepage, as well as The American Conservative and the National Review. All good sources that will make you think. Thanks for posting.