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11-25-2013, 11:59 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Yup just the leaseholders responsibility to repair the damages and clean up after the rightful owners trash the place. I guess we will make that a part of the costs that our city masters impose on their country serfs.
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Do you honestly believe that anyone who goes to the effort to contact the lease holder, provides him with his name, phone number, address, WIN#, vehicle plate number, the date and time that he's going to access etc., etc. and anything else that the lease holder requests/requires, is then going to go in and cut fences, chase cattle, or commit any other devious behaviour. You're not talking about the same people, so trying to deny access to legitimate users won't prevent damage to the lease. Plain and simple.
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Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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11-25-2013, 12:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
He is not allowed to touch a tree so again contact SRD, they will deal with it.
You are asking for access, not hunting regs. Can't say what gender you shoot.
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I know that now, didn't know it back then when I was younger, and less informed. This all happened a number of years ago. I'd turn in his a** in a heartbeat now.
__________________
Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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11-25-2013, 12:03 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: N/W Alberta.
Posts: 291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
I did a bit of research.
It appears that what you say is true so far as who holds those leases.
It also seems that there is a man of the same name who is a representative of the Agriculture Service board of Alberta.
I believe that is what is meant by Agriculture Service Board member at large.
I'm not sure what it all means but it does appear there may be grounds for a closer look at this individual.
The good new for you is, there is a fairly large lease to the West that is listed as no contact required.
I don't know if that information is current.
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Mayhap`s the man has found someone to help him look without getting a war going.[like the way you explained somethings to him]Can we coin the term S.B.M.at large.It is a good term for many places these day`s. 
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11-25-2013, 12:16 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadave
Do you honestly believe that anyone who goes to the effort to contact the lease holder, provides him with his name, phone number, address, WIN#, vehicle plate number, the date and time that he's going to access etc., etc. and anything else that the lease holder requests/requires, is then going to go in and cut fences, chase cattle, or commit any other devious behaviour. You're not talking about the same people, so trying to deny access to legitimate users won't prevent damage to the lease. Plain and simple.
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Double tap
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 12:16 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadave
Do you honestly believe that anyone who goes to the effort to contact the lease holder, provides him with his name, phone number, address, WIN#, vehicle plate number, the date and time that he's going to access etc., etc. and anything else that the lease holder requests/requires, is then going to go in and cut fences, chase cattle, or commit any other devious behaviour. You're not talking about the same people, so trying to deny access to legitimate users won't prevent damage to the lease. Plain and simple.
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I can actually give a location of a cut fence and the name and address of the people invoved as an example from this year. They have permission.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 12:17 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
I can actually give a location of a cut fence and the name and address of the people invoved as an example from this year.
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Wow- You know for a fact that they cut your fence?
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11-25-2013, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
I can actually give a location of a cut fence and the name and address of the people invoved as an example from this year. They have permission.
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I would have to think that's the very rare exception to the norm. What did you do about it? (I'm assuming that it's your lease, given your stance on this thread)
__________________
Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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11-25-2013, 12:55 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
Wow- You know for a fact that they cut your fence?
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I never said it was my fence, and yes they told me they cut it.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 12:58 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadave
I would have to think that's the very rare exception to the norm. What did you do about it? (I'm assuming that it's your lease, given your stance on this thread)
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I told them they had better take it up with the landowner. They ended up learning how to fix fence after I informed them I wasn't going to go fix it for them. They did a pretty good job actually. One side is lease the other deeded.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Interesting story. Are you the lease holder?
__________________
Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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11-25-2013, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Grande Prairie
Posts: 619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Part of the deal was I'm a steward of the lease, it is not my job to clean up after you, or fix damages that you did to my property(the fence). If you don't like my country/city dichotomy by all means quit reading it and stay in the city.
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Pretty sad statement...
Your prejudices are blinding. I've had some bad experiences with specific rural people but I wouldn't paint you all with that broad brush. Almost all of the landowners and leaseholders I've dealt with are kind, great people.
Yet I've had a bad experience with a leaseholder while following all conditions and leaving zero mess and zero damage. So I should consider you a jerk and bully by association because you're a leaseholder too?
Yes, part of the deal is you're a steward of the lease. You're conveniently forgetting about the other 'parts of the deal' that relate to allowing recreational access. I guess you only assume responsibility when it suits you?
What gives?
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11-25-2013, 02:33 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltmania
Pretty sad statement...
Your prejudices are blinding. I've had some bad experiences with specific rural people but I wouldn't paint you all with that broad brush. Almost all of the landowners and leaseholders I've dealt with are kind, great people.
Yet I've had a bad experience with a leaseholder while following all conditions and leaving zero mess and zero damage. So I should consider you a jerk and bully by association because you're a leaseholder too?
Yes, part of the deal is you're a steward of the lease. You're conveniently forgetting about the other 'parts of the deal' that relate to allowing recreational access. I guess you only assume responsibility when it suits you?
What gives?
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I never said I denied anyone access. Even the guys who cut the fence still have access.
Pretty sad when thread after thread on here is whining about landowners and leaseholders but when one landowner sticks up for rural property owners it's prejudicial.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadave
Interesting story. Are you the lease holder?
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Nope, my neighbor's. They thought I'd help them out and maybe smooth it over for them. As far as I know they still have access there too.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 02:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
When they sell those leases I promise you they get paid for those fences and all other improvements.
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That should not be the case. Why should they?
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11-25-2013, 02:40 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
I never said I denied anyone access. Even the guys who cut the fence still have access.
Pretty sad when thread after thread on here is whining about landowners and leaseholders but when one landowner sticks up for rural property owners it's prejudicial.
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HBR- You are not mending to much fence here. Just saying.
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11-25-2013, 02:42 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Leases
Speaking of cut fences, I was at a lease gate one day. The cattle were out and they had kicked down the fence, do I herded them back in wired up the fence and then let the rancher know what I'd done. He didn't even say thanks, and still I was denied access. But then I'm "just a city feller," and don't know how to conduct myself on a lease apparently.
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11-25-2013, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Grande Prairie
Posts: 619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
I never said I denied anyone access. Even the guys who cut the fence still have access.
Pretty sad when thread after thread on here is whining about landowners and leaseholders but when one landowner sticks up for rural property owners it's prejudicial.
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Sticking up for leaseholders and denigrating people from the city are not the same thing. For the record you said "you" cut fences and clean up after "you". I'm not a slob nor a vandal. Please don't call me one just because I don't live in the country.
Last weekend I met three awesome landowners who granted me access to some new areas on the weekend. Fine people who have my appreciation and respect. This was one of my very first experiences asking for permission and it was great. I was going to post about it later. The fact I'm from Grande Prairie didn't bother them...
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11-25-2013, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,705
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Leases
I wonder how many rural folks come to calgary and drive on the roads that I've paid for? I don't mind, come on into the city this is Alberta where we all help each other, on the other hand when I want to go to the country try to be civil.
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11-25-2013, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Nope, my neighbor's. They thought I'd help them out and maybe smooth it over for them. As far as I know they still have access there too.
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Why did they cut the fence? And how?? are these guys walking around with a pair or side snips?
How do you know them? I hope you told the landowner what they did and revoked any permission because that is just bs fixing it or not!
Mike
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11-25-2013, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfowler1969
That should not be the case. Why should they?
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It provides incentive to keep a nice fence. When it goes up for sale it will be a consideration to the guy who is going to pay for it. If he does not have to fence it he will pay more for it. Or you can buy it and it will be worth more to you. If anyone is interested in obtaining a grazing lease they are available pretty much all the time. If it looks like its a freebe go for it. It is available to every last Albertan out there if they choose.
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11-25-2013, 03:30 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfowler1969
That should not be the case. Why should they?
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Check out listings of leased land through real estate agents, you will see...
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11-25-2013, 03:43 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W
Why did they cut the fence? And how?? are these guys walking around with a pair or side snips?
How do you know them? I hope you told the landowner what they did and revoked any permission because that is just bs fixing it or not!
Mike
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They couldn't get out of the spot they were in. Yes they had a tool box. Like I said they have and continue to have permission on my land. The landowner knows about the situation and chose to allow further access.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 03:47 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I wonder how many rural folks come to calgary and drive on the roads that I've paid for? I don't mind, come on into the city this is Alberta where we all help each other, on the other hand when I want to go to the country try to be civil.
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I wonder how many federal income tax dollars bought those same roads, how much Federal gas tax money was used, how much business tax was used, how much GST money was used, how much provincial gas tax money was used, how much rural property tax was redistributed, how much provincial income tax was used, how much provincial sin tax was used? Heck I wonder how much of the lease payment money was used?
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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11-25-2013, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltmania
Sticking up for leaseholders and denigrating people from the city are not the same thing. For the record you said "you" cut fences and clean up after "you". I'm not a slob nor a vandal. Please don't call me one just because I don't live in the country.
Last weekend I met three awesome landowners who granted me access to some new areas on the weekend. Fine people who have my appreciation and respect. This was one of my very first experiences asking for permission and it was great. I was going to post about it later. The fact I'm from Grande Prairie didn't bother them...
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Alright, here is a big 
Has anyone ever noticed that the closer you get to the city the more no trespassing no hunting signs there are. Any chance that is because other landowners are causing trouble? Or do you think it's fine upstanding urban landowners that are the biggest problem?
Most landowners are like the ones you met, me included. I get tired of all the whining about what dicks we all are, because someone was denied permission. It seems everyone denied permission knows everything about the situation and there is no reason for the landowner not to give permission blah, blah, blah, I hate to break it you, But you don't know sweet f'all about what is going on around that ranch.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
Last edited by hillbillyreefer; 11-25-2013 at 04:03 PM.
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11-25-2013, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCse7en
Check out listings of leased land through real estate agents, you will see...
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I bought another 4 sections of lease land all in one block, cost a tidy sum of $850,000. Oh yeah, then I had to pay the lease transfer fee,about $25,000, to transfer the acre titles to my company name and then pay the annual rentals for each acre. Someone PLEASE tell me where I can get those acres for nothing and graze cattle for just a minor annual rental, I would take as much as I could get. The way it seems to be going is I'm supposed to lay out that kind of money, let someone drive into the place and start a fire with their catalytic converter then I have to pay to fence it off for 4 years while the land recovers all while paying the mortgage with no income coming from the property. But hey, at least that guy saw a couple antelope, I mean, that's the most important thing isn't it?
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11-25-2013, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: AB
Posts: 329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenRange
I bought another 4 sections of lease land all in one block, cost a tidy sum of $850,000. Oh yeah, then I had to pay the lease transfer fee,about $25,000, to transfer the acre titles to my company name and then pay the annual rentals for each acre. Someone PLEASE tell me where I can get those acres for nothing and graze cattle for just a minor annual rental, I would take as much as I could get. The way it seems to be going is I'm supposed to lay out that kind of money, let someone drive into the place and start a fire with their catalytic converter then I have to pay to fence it off for 4 years while the land recovers all while paying the mortgage with no income coming from the property. But hey, at least that guy saw a couple antelope, I mean, that's the most important thing isn't it?
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If the conditions in the lease stipulate foot access only and no fires, then no, you don't have to let them do that.
You do, however, have to allow access when the person follows what conditions are in the lease. 
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11-25-2013, 04:10 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
But you don't know sweet f'all about what is going on around that ranch.
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Actually - more likely the reason why you are upset, is anybody that threatens the grazing lease Ponzi must be shut up at all costs - in the event the market (future buyers) swing from the misconception that it's almost as good as deeded land to the correct notion that grazing leases are just for the rights to the grass - your several hundred thousand dollar (on paper) net asset value disappears into thin air.
You fight for more rights for the steward of the lease because it justifies the ridiculous value you paid for it - or the ridiculous value you believe you can bank from it on resale.
I can see why you would be upset when somebody has the gall to point out the differences between private property and a grazing lease.
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11-25-2013, 04:15 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: South East Saskatchewan
Posts: 129
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Saskatchewan Example
I grew up in Alberta and never did understand the intricacies of the rules surrounding graze leases. I got to the point where I avoided them.
Now since living in Saskatchewan I love how the regulations are simplified. In Saskatchewan Graze Leaseholders have until Oct31st or whatever date is stipulated in their lease to get their cows off, that's it, and then any person may access it without notifying anyone. The only exception is a pasture manager may deny access is with Co-Op pastures because it's not public land. http://www.environment.gov.sk.ca/
May be the Alberta government could look to Saskatchewan to simplify and correct these land access conflicts? This would prevent people from monopolizing a public resource.
Dan
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11-25-2013, 04:21 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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I wasn't going to post in this thread as it is the same old, same old. 
Lease holders whining and telling hunters to buy their own land. Brilliant!!!! exactly what a pharmicist or mechanic or cop from Devon or Calgary needs. A couple of sections of lease land to hunt on. Buy some cows etc. etc. etc. How stupid is that.
Lease holders whining that he just spent tons of money to buy more leases. Well maybe they aren't the huge headache after all. Maybe he can make money from them. Maybe they are a great deal for him....OR he is just a super guy who is trying to provide a place for wildlife to live and raise their young. 
HOw about the hunter from Edmonton or Red Deer who is having a rum and coke after hunting season, banging away on his computer bitchin' about how he owns all the leases and lets the rancher use them. But he doesn't spend 5 minutes helping the rancher maintain any of it.
All of Y'all need to find a way to work this crap out and get along, or it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Yeah I know there's rules for access. Hunters and leaseholders need to ask themselves why there needs to be rules in the first place. It's because adults can't seem to get along any better than a bunch of kids on a playground.
The Alberta Gov't needs to take a large portion of the blame for the problems.
They allow the sale of the rights to lease gov't owned land and have for many years to the point that those involved have the idea that they own it. That applies to all parties involved.
You can build a bridge or burn it. It's up to you.
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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11-25-2013, 04:21 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: calgary
Posts: 858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
I did a bit of research.
It appears that what you say is true so far as who holds those leases.
It also seems that there is a man of the same name who is a representative of the Agriculture Service board of Alberta.
I believe that is what is meant by Agriculture Service Board member at large.
I'm not sure what it all means but it does appear there may be grounds for a closer look at this individual.
The good new for you is, there is a fairly large lease to the West that is listed as no contact required.
I don't know if that information is current.
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I would not be surprise if you find "a can of worms" if you dig further.
__________________
“It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, who is poor.”
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