P-oed homeowner, or am I at fault???

thebuckshow · #1 10-16-2009, 06:25 PM

So this past weekend I took my cousin and step brother out to get them their first huns. Morning of the hunt was successful bagging three for them. Just after lunch we returned to a different area and a field where I had just spoken with the landowner that morning and the previous night. Now this will require a little diagram so work with me...

XXXXX -X represents the area of the 1/4 that the landowner
XXXXX (Mr. X) owns and has given me permission to hunt on.
XXXXX -O represents the fenced off corner of the section that
XXXXX Mr. O owns and has a house/garage and shop on.
OXXXX

Now, enough scematics, back to the story. We began to walk from the SE corner (for arguement sake use SE as the bottom right of diagram) to about the second X when we saw 6 huns flush from the stubble and fly straight west landing near the road on the west side. (Out of shooting range so no shots fired) Now, our intentions were to walk straight west of our intentions to maybe flush the birds accross the road into a native pasture that we also had permission on. However, when we started to walk behind Mr. O's house (about fifteen - twenty feet from his fence, with no intention of firing a shot due to the closeness of his house) we were met by old Mr. O himself sitting on his deck watching us. Then things got interesting, as he proceded to call me a bad hunter, telling me that I was irresponsible, unethical, and had absolutely no respect because of the fact that we were too close to his property. Which, in my mind, I am on not on his property, but not wantinig to start a fight, I apologized and said we would head out further into the field. Well this seemed to make him more angry, as he then went on to tell me that it is against the law to carry a firearm within 200 yds of his occupied building, (when the only law I know is that you may not DISCHARGE a firearm within that distance of an occupied building) and then continued by saying that he had a 7mm at the back door and we better be 200 yds away by the time he came back out of his house. Trying to reason with him by telling him the truth about trying to bump the birds and having no intentions of firing any rounds anywhere near his house only seemed to make him more mad. As he then went told me once again I was a disgrace to hunting and stormed into his house. Not wanting to get shot we gladly left that field only to drive by at the end of the day about 4 hours later to see him in his pick up truck sitting in the middle of the field and "plinking" partridge with a .22.

Now, I apologize for the long read/rant, but I just cannot figure out what if anything I was in the wrong here for. The landowner was contacted but was unavailable and a message has been left telling him what happened but he has not gotten back to me yet. SO if anyone can give me some insight maybe some landowners could throw in their two cents? Anyone else ever run into a problem like this before???

PS. I should also state that I have hunted that 1/4 before without seeing, or hearing hide nor hair from Mr. O. Thanks

buckshow

Albertadiver · #2 10-16-2009, 06:35 PM

Nothing wrong with what you did according to the story as you told it .

1. You asked for permission.
2. You stayed on the area you had permission for.
3. You didn't take any risky shots within or toward the home.
4. You offered to move on just to make the guy happy.

Sounds like he's a knob, but as with everything, there's two sides to every story.

If he in fact threatened you with the gun, I would report it to the authorities for the threat, and for interfering with a hunt.

hal53 · #3 10-16-2009, 06:35 PM

So, u live in Calgary....would u be a little upset if u were sitting on your deck and 2-3 strangers came walking down your back alley with guns ???? might make u think,, u did have permission on the land you were on...but...common courtesy ...even if it's 20ft. away would be to go around or stop and talk with the Gent

East Coast Caper · #4 10-16-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Sounds like he's a knob, but as with everything, there's two sides to every story.

three sides my grandfather used to say... YOURS, MINE and THE TRUTH.

If he threatened you i would report it.... maybe someone else won't be as nice as you and end up getting shot by this **s... then at least there is a report of this guy making threats with a gun...

hal53 · #5 10-16-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebuckshow

So this past weekend I took my cousin and step brother out to get them their first huns. Morning of the hunt was successful bagging three for them. Just after lunch we returned to a different area and a field where I had just spoken with the landowner that morning and the previous night. Now this will require a little diagram so work with me...

XXXXX -X represents the area of the 1/4 that the landowner
XXXXX (Mr. X) owns and has given me permission to hunt on.
XXXXX -O represents the fenced off corner of the section that
XXXXX Mr. O owns and has a house/garage and shop on.
OXXXX

Now, enough scematics, back to the story. We began to walk from the SE corner (for arguement sake use SE as the bottom right of diagram) to about the second X when we saw 6 huns flush from the stubble and fly straight west landing near the road on the west side. (Out of shooting range so no shots fired) Now, our intentions were to walk straight west of our intentions to maybe flush the birds accross the road into a native pasture that we also had permission on. However, when we started to walk behind Mr. O's house (about fifteen - twenty feet from his fence, with no intention of firing a shot due to the closeness of his house) we were met by old Mr. O himself sitting on his deck watching us. Then things got interesting, as he proceded to call me a bad hunter, telling me that I was irresponsible, unethical, and had absolutely no respect because of the fact that we were too close to his property. Which, in my mind, I am on not on his property, but not wantinig to start a fight, I apologized and said we would head out further into the field. Well this seemed to make him more angry, as he then went on to tell me that it is against the law to carry a firearm within 200 yds of his occupied building, (when the only law I know is that you may not DISCHARGE a firearm within that distance of an occupied building) and then continued by saying that he had a 7mm at the back door and we better be 200 yds away by the time he came back out of his house. Trying to reason with him by telling him the truth about trying to bump the birds and having no intentions of firing any rounds anywhere near his house only seemed to make him more mad. As he then went told me once again I was a disgrace to hunting and stormed into his house. Not wanting to get shot we gladly left that field only to drive by at the end of the day about 4 hours later to see him in his pick up truck sitting in the middle of the field and "plinking" partridge with a .22.

Now, I apologize for the long read/rant, but I just cannot figure out what if anything I was in the wrong here for. The landowner was contacted but was unavailable and a message has been left telling him what happened but he has not gotten back to me yet. SO if anyone can give me some insight maybe some landowners could throw in their two cents? Anyone else ever run into a problem like this before???

PS. I should also state that I have hunted that 1/4 before without seeing, or hearing hide nor hair from Mr. O. Thanks

buckshow

you were quite likely "legally" right...but if you were 15-20 from his fence and able to have a conversation????...little tight with loaded guns....wouldn't take much time to stop and explain the situation...how does he know if the covey jumps and you guys start shooting??????

thebuckshow · #6 10-16-2009, 06:53 PM

Yes a report will be coming for sure. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking any laws that I may not know about? I know about the common courtesy thing, however on each of the 2 occasions I hunted there before he was never home, and when we pulled up this particular day I saw no vehicles and no sign of anyone being home. Seeing as it was not his property I really didn't see any issue arising, but from now on I will be leaving a note no matter what I was honestly scared he would shoot us. Just to add I know there are different sides to every story but this one I am not even bending the truth. My cousin and 14 year old step brother can vouche for that. But all in all I can understand the common courtesy and if I had had the opportunity or even had the slightest idea he was home, I would have stopped in. I don't know man, friggin psycho if you ask me.

bonedogg · #7 10-16-2009, 07:01 PM

Sounds similar to the story with the basketball coach (ex) from indiana and one of his famous you tube run ins. Except he was pelting buddies house with shot and didn't see anything wrong with it. It sounds like you acted responsibly and should report his ignorant arse!

hal53 · #8 10-16-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonedogg

Sounds similar to the story with the basketball coach (ex) from indiana and one of his famous you tube run ins. Except he was pelting buddies house with shot and didn't see anything wrong with it. It sounds like you acted responsibly and should report his ignorant arse!

WHATEVER!!!!...yeah right...report him!!!...and enjoy it after he talks to his neighbors and "no hunting" signs go up....was he over the top????...absolutely!!!!...did he own the land????...absolutely not!!!!...would u be concerned if some hunters with loaded guns... the youngest being 14 walked within 20 feet of your fence????...absolutely!!!!... would love to hear the actual dialogue that went on!!!!...Also no answer to my earlier post about down your back alley!!!!!

Albertadiver · #9 10-16-2009, 07:18 PM

Hal,

The country is no comparison to living in the city where some guy is walking down your alley.

I get what you're saying on the Devil's advocate side of things, but why so wound up? I can't drink yet tonight till I go meet Alberta BigBore for the Winter Camo I just bought.

Join you in about 3 hours!

hal53 · #10 10-16-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Hal,

The country is no comparison to living in the city where some guy is walking down your alley.

I get what you're saying on the Devil's advocate side of things, but why so wound up? I can't drink yet tonight till I go meet Alberta BigBore for the Winter Camo I just bought.

Join you in about 3 hours!

Nice....I'm just saying..it was mentioned twice that he never saw the guy there,,,I work away a lot... quite often no one at my place as well..when I'm home my 2 grandsons are out and about ( 4 1/2 and 1 year).. why wound up????... I have bullet holes in my shop from from some guys "shooting coyotes"...until I got out there and explained the "coyote" was my neighbors Border Collie!!!!!

thebuckshow · #11 10-16-2009, 07:25 PM

Seems there are split ideas on this one. I am not going to report him until I talk to the landowner first of all. Every other landowner/leaser/homeowner I have talked to in the area are all really nice and have yet to deny hunting permission. So I highly doubt no hunting signs will pop up haha. I agree that the country and city are of no comparison, you can't carry guns down a back alley in the city, you can however carry guns in a field you have permission on. I'm not looking for an arguement with you hal53, I am just looking for some advice from some seasoned vets, maybe some landowners, not trying to start a royal rumble on the topic. I'm also not saying I was 100% right, that's the reason I'm asking for input I'm still a fairly new hunter and this one, is a first for me.

thebuckshow · #12 10-16-2009, 07:30 PM

Hal, you seem to be missing the point on this one. I am a responsible hunter to the absolute best of my abilities. I have never shot someones dog. I have never, and WILL NEVER shoot towards, at, or even close to ANYONES property. I move upfield even if I am near an old abandonded tractor, simply due to the fact that it is NOT mine, and I wouldn't want someone shooting at or near any of my stuff. Let me state again, that at no time, in ANY of the now 3 trips to the land have I fired a single shot anywhere near ANYONES property, or at a dog or shop. I'm not the hunter in you're story you are mad at.

Albertadiver · #13 10-16-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53

Nice....I'm just saying..it was mentioned twice that he never saw the guy there,,,I work away a lot... quite often no one at my place as well..when I'm home my 2 grandsons are out and about ( 4 1/2 and 1 year).. why wound up????... I have bullet holes in my shop from from some guys "shooting coyotes"...until I got out there and explained the "coyote" was my neighbors Border Collie!!!!!

Well those are valid reasons for you to be concerned. I would be too!

Just giving this guy the benefit of the doubt in this instance, just because some idiots shot up your shop doesn't mean that everyone is that dumb.

I think thebuckshow gets the point though, as he's said that from now on that he'd leave a note even when he thinks people aren't home. That would be the responsible thing to do I think. Even if it was just letting them know that I was hunting on land adjacent to thiers and that we would be sure to respect the property boundries and not be shooting near the house.

If I were that homeowner, I'd appreciate a note like that.

Pixel Shooter · #14 10-16-2009, 07:35 PM

I personally wouldnt do nothing without talking to the landowner in which you had permission, you dont want to make his life miserable either. I would go back to him, first and foremost thank him for the permission and opportunity to go birding, secondly ask him how well he knows his neighbour, something tells me he might know a little

and share............... I',m confident you will know where to go with the conversation at this point. Unfortunate, we all have a story as such, makes you shake your head LOL

Albertadiver · #15 10-16-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter

I personally wouldnt do nothing without talking to the landowner in which you had permission, you dont want to make his life miserable either. I would go back to him, first and foremost thank him for the permission and opportunity to go birding, secondly ask him how well he knows his neighbour, something tells me he might know a little

and share............... I',m confident you will know where to go with the conversation at this point. Unfortunate, we all have a story as such, makes you shake your head LOL

Good point. Didn't think of that.

huntinstuff · #16 10-16-2009, 07:45 PM

You were on Farmer A's land.

You were too close to Farmer B's "comfort zone" for sure. I can see his point a bit.

Farmer B says he has a 7mm at the back door and you better be 200m away when he gets back.

Farmer B doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as any complaint against you goes.

Farmer B was probably concerned about how close you were to his place. Fair enough. You were pretty close.

Farmer B had better watch his yap or Farmer B might be shooting partridge with a slingshot next year......and for a few years after that.

Faststeel · #17 10-17-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53

WHATEVER!!!!...yeah right...report him!!!...and enjoy it after he talks to his neighbors and "no hunting" signs go up....was he over the top????...absolutely!!!!...did he own the land????...absolutely not!!!!...would u be concerned if some hunters with loaded guns... the youngest being 14 walked within 20 feet of your fence????...absolutely!!!!... would love to hear the actual dialogue that went on!!!!...Also no answer to my earlier post about down your back alley!!!!!

Well then what would you do If someone told you he had a rifle behind the door, someone walking with a gun down my back alley, chances are pretty good I wouldn't see them. Sounds like this fellow had a burr in his ass. FS

rednecknewfie · #18 10-17-2009, 08:44 AM

well if you have permission you were full within your rights to be there . so screw mr.o and then for him to threaten you with the possabilty of being shot with his 7mm that right there was the reason to shut him up for good with a call to the police.

albertadave · #19 10-17-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rednecknewfie

well if you have permission you were full within your rights to be there . so screw mr.o and then for him to threaten you with the possabilty of being shot with his 7mm that right there was the reason to shut him up for good with a call to the police.

X2
Property lines and fences are in place for a reason. If you didn't fire any shots within 200m of his house, or break any other laws, then Mr.O has no place even talking to you. In this case his business ends at the fence line. As for the threat he made, that's a whole other matter, pretty serious stuff.

Bull Shooter · #20 10-17-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebuckshow

Seems there are split ideas on this one. I am not going to report him until I talk to the landowner first of all. Every other landowner/leaser/homeowner I have talked to in the area are all really nice and have yet to deny hunting permission. So I highly doubt no hunting signs will pop up haha. I agree that the country and city are of no comparison, you can't carry guns down a back alley in the city, you can however carry guns in a field you have permission on. I'm not looking for an arguement with you hal53, I am just looking for some advice from some seasoned vets, maybe some landowners, not trying to start a royal rumble on the topic. I'm also not saying I was 100% right, that's the reason I'm asking for input I'm still a fairly new hunter and this one, is a first for me.

buckshow, I am a landowner and know quite a few landowners that have found themselves in similar positions. My best advice... do not involve the landowner in the dispute! Landowners are not too keen on involving themselves in disputes amongst hunters and especially when it might involve a neighbor.

I might give the landowner a "heads-up" to the situation and offer some sort of apology or explanation if there was a misunderstanding (real or perceived).

If I was threatened with a firearm or the threat of firearm and I took that threat seriously, I know I would have reported it immediately. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. Regards, Mike

huntsfurfish · #21 10-17-2009, 10:46 AM

In answer to your question. Yes - partly.

huntsfurfish · #22 10-17-2009, 10:51 AM

He doesnt know you or what you were going to do. Who knows how many times his buildings have taken hits! Put yourself in his place, its his home for god sake!

Show respect! (even if you dont get any in return).

ps did you legally do anything wrong - according to you, no according to the law, no. But...

albertadave · #23 10-17-2009, 11:32 AM

huntsfurfish, go back and re-read buckshow's post. I did and seems to me he was showing the guy nothing but respect, even going so far as to apologize when in fact he had done nothing wrong. At the time of the confrontation all he was doing was walking by the guy's place for crying out loud. Just because he happened to have a gun in his hand doesn't mean he should be attacked.

rednecknewfie · #24 10-17-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delburnedave

huntsfurfish, go back and re-read buckshow's post. I did and seems to me he was showing the guy nothing but respect, even going so far as to apologize when in fact he had done nothing wrong. At the time of the confrontation all he was doing was walking by the guy's place for crying out loud. Just because he happened to have a gun in his hand doesn't mean he should be attacked.

X2

wollybugger · #25 10-17-2009, 03:40 PM

sounds to me that farmer b wants the hunting to himself and since when is it ok to shoot birds with a 22 out of a pick up

rog · #26 10-17-2009, 04:38 PM

you need to report this incident to the police.

this is very serious stuff, when someone threatens you with violence with a firearm, it is an offense. let the police investigate and deal with him.
dont wait until someone does get hurt.

REPORT IT.

Rog

pickrel pat · #27 10-17-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rog

you need to report this incident to the police.

this is very serious stuff, when someone threatens you with violence with a firearm, it is an offense. let the police investigate and deal with him.
dont wait until someone does get hurt.

REPORT IT.

Rog

your hunting on land where you have permission, your threatened to be shot for being on land where you have permisssion to be, you tryed to be civil, he need s to be dealt with.

Forest Techer · #28 10-17-2009, 08:29 PM

I just wouldn't want to burn any bridges for myself or other hunters in that area. I agree with what others said and talk to the land owner first (who knows maybe the old guy regretted what he said) then listen to your gut. Threats involving a firearm shouldn't be taken lightly.

Personaly this would be more work then I need. no harm no foul. I've met some ignorant people that made my blood boil but after time when I look back I think what a waste it would have been to get into a whole mess over it. You can't fix stupid (people that is).

I also understand how even when you do the right things its often not enough for some.

thebuckshow · #29 10-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Thanks again to everyone for all of the advice. This evening the landowner (the nice one who let me on his land) finally called me back. He was away on vacation and just received my message. He was actually more upset than I was over the whole situation and told me about all of the problems he has had with this guy in the past. He said, "that honery old ***** has nothing better to do with his time, maybe he should get a ****ing job! I am tired of that jack ass!" He apologized to me, and told me about some other land a little farther south that he owns and told me anytime, no questions asked I would be allowed to hunt there. He also GUARANTEED more partridge than I could handle, which makes me pretty happy. Then I told him about the guy sitting in the truck on HIS land. Now it gets interesting. Apparently he has threatended to press tresspassing charges on the guy in the past, and this set him off. We talked about it and he said "...this guy will get what is coming to him, beleive you me!" So he is going to have more than a few words with him when he gets home tomorrow and told me he would call me after and let me know how it all went down. I then thanked him for the new permission and re-thanked him for the last few times he let me on, and he told me anytime I was coming out hunting, call him, stop in, and he would have a fresh pot of coffee waiting for me. Gotta love it. Anyways all in all I think it will work out ok we'll see how it goes between the two and I'll keep it posted. Thanks again everyone.

PS. Anyone need a good partridge hunt? I DO!

Tundra Monkey · #30 10-17-2009, 11:47 PM

Ahhhh, the perfect ending!!!!!!!

tm