Boat tail Vs Flat

[BuckMan101]

Which is more accurate?

[twofifty]

It could be one or the other, so develop both.

In my rifle, to 200 yds, 53gr flatbase gives slightly better results than 52gr boatail. It's apples and oranges: 2 different brands of match HPs, different jacket materiel, diff. C/G and SD, bearing length. So a guy can't really draw a firm conclusion from that.

Shoot 'em both and see.

[Rem - P14]

Originally Posted by BuckMan101

Which is more accurate?

Thank-you for asking this question. It will be very interesting to see what kind of info your question generates. I was originally told the Boat-tail was by far superior to the flat-based but then later came across info indicating that the Boat-tail advantage really only kicked in after a certain distance. Supposedly, anything up to the neighborhood of three hundred yards (this number grabbed out of the air, I do not know the true distance) does not require fancy bullet configuration.
Hope to hear from others on this subject.
Thank-you,
Rem

[twofifty]

Apparently, the boatail comes into its own when it decelerates into the transonic zone (i.e. drops below Mach 1). The boatail supposedly handles the turbulence & pressure changes better than the flatbase, which reduces variations to the POI.

I don't shoot at those distances, so the advantage is wasted on me.

I hope the 1000yd F-class guys pipe in with real life experiences.

[Rem - P14]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Apparently, the boatail comes into its own when it decelerates into the transonic zone (i.e. drops below Mach 1). The boatail supposedly handles the turbulence & pressure changes better than the flatbase, which reduces variations to the POI.

I don't shoot at those distances, so the advantage is wasted on me.

I hope the 1000yd F-class guys pipe in with real life experiences.

Thank-you. What you say really makes sense.
Rem

[Canuck Bob]

Lapau and others make rebated boattails for improved accuracy. Looks like a semiwadcutter nose on the base. Read somewhere that this kept the gasses at the muzzle blast from curling around the bullet and destabilizing it a little. Personally I only shot one boattail regularly and it was far more accurate than me.

[jimbo1]

i have heard that olderstyle rifles prefer boat tails i dont know how true that is

[tchardy1972]

Every gun likes differnt things. Some will shoot flat base bullets better and others like the boat tail design. Just for info the 22 cal 53 and 52 grain sierra matchkings are listed with the same b.c. If you put the trajectory into a chart on top of each other (everything being the same) the 53 has a slight edge from the 1gr extra weight.

[32-40win]

I've used Nosler partition for hunting and the ballistic tip for other than hunting in my 7-08. Same load for both, sighted for the partition, the ball tip was 1/2" left at 100,1" left at 200 & 300. The ballistic was about an inch higher at 300, a couple at 400. Both were shot at 2850 to 2860 over the chrono.
For me it is virtually practically irrelevant in the difference between them in that gun. Both would shoot 7/8" to 1-1/8 at 100, only major improvement was the 168 Sierra, closed it up to 5/8" at 100. At 300 the group size was about the same for either, around 3 ", at 400 the balltip was about 1/2" better.
For whatever that is worth, that is my experience with a comparison. It wasn't bought to be used as a target gun, either. Rem 700 Classic w/22" barrel. I shot some rams at Rosebud, had no problems knocking them down at 500 with it , the few times I tried it, with the ballistic tip.

[Dick284]

It all depends.
Some rifles will prefer flat bases, some will prefer boattails. Some rifles even get choosy as to the type of boattail they are fed.

The only way to really find out, is shoot them in your rifle and see what your rifle prefers.


As for the advantages to boattails, lots of old fellers claim boat tails are not for hunting, but with stuff like Accubonds and TTSX's being boat tailed now that old line of thinking is pretty much not applicable.

With the advent of laser range finders and all the latest and greatest scope accutriments these days, a slightly flater trajectory is pretty much a moot point, as is an extra hundred foot lbs or so of energy.


Shoot what your rifle prefers and let the rest of the retoric fall by the wayside.

Good luck.

[elkhunter11]

With the advent of laser range finders and all the latest and greatest scope accutriments these days, a slightly flater trajectory is pretty much a moot point, as is an extra hundred foot lbs or so of energy.

My feeling is, that the reduced wind drift at longer ranges is actually of more value than a slightly flatter trajectory.

[ishootbambi]

i think dick is bang on.....and so is elk....

[lannie]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My feeling is, that the reduced wind drift at longer ranges is actually of more value than a slightly flatter trajectory.

x2

[catnthehat]

We are getting two things mixed up here, the original question of which bullet is more accurate, and the thoughts of which bullet is more accurate out of a particular rifle!

Suffice it to say that past 500 yards the boat tail for all intent and purposes will be more accurate because of its design for trans sonic flight characteristics, but throw in the fact that a particular rifle may not shoot well in them is something all together different.
In long range match rifles the chamber is normally cut for a particular bullet, but in an off the rack hunting rifle it may just be that the flat based bullet do not work as well as a single brand of boat tail bullet.

As was said, one would have to try them to find out.
However, you will not see a flt based bullet in a dedicated long range rig, but often you see boat tailed bullets being shot to great effect in short range outfits.
Most short range BR bullets are flat based IIRC, for several reasons.
Maybe someone like Bushrat or Precision Shooter - who shoot these games competitively ,will be able to shed some light on this.
Manufacturing being what it is, I remember something about flat based bullets being easier to make more accurate than boat tails, but I may be wrong.......
Cat

[wolf308]

my 204 doesnt seem to like boat tails and after switching powders to experiment i got 4 shots .098" group(same hole) at 100 yards with rest,thats using the sierra 32 grain at 4125 fps. remington 700 sps varmint

[hardy]

I am with cat It seems that most short range benchresters 100 and 200yards used flat base bullets. This is based on the theory that a flat base bullet is easier to manufacture allowing even pressure to exit around the base of the bullet when leaving the muzzle. If a boatail bullet is not exactly concentric around the boatail one could argue that exhaust gasses could escape to one side of the boatail and cause the bullet to slighty tip or yaw on exit of the barrel. This is solely theoretical and would have to be tested in one's rifle.

[Canuck Bob]

I'm always a little confused by wind drift ballistics but it seems to make sense BTs would help there as range stretches.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

i agree with Cat and Hardy

from what I have read, the manufactureing of BT boolits is more difficult to make true.

this is why the good ones are expensive.

[silver]

The story I always got was flat base bullets for 1-200 yards and boat tail for long ranges. Julian Hatcher talks of smaller groups at 200 yds than 100 with boat tail bullets. I believe the theory is it takes a certain length of time to stabilize boat tails.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by silver

The story I always got was flat base bullets for 1-200 yards and boat tail for long ranges. Julian Hatcher talks of smaller groups at 200 yds than 100 with boat tail bullets. I believe the theory is it takes a certain length of time to stabilize boat tails.

The argument about bullets taking longe to go to sleep has more to do with the individual rifle , I think.
This has been discussed on numerous boards over the year, benchrest central, 24 hr. campfire, shortmags.org, long range hunting and shooting are just some that I remember.
heated discussion and photographic proof was give on both the pro and con side!
When I asked my father, who was not only a competitive shooter , National team coach but also a ballistician , his explanation was that modern bullet manufacture and rifle technology has advanced quite a bit , and some bullets out of some rifle will go to sleep faster than others, but to arbitrarily say that
buller "A" will not stabilize until it hits X yards can only be a generalization , unless it is made that way.

Personally , I have seen it both ways as well, but on the big bullets such as the .50 it is generally considered that most will not go to sleep until they are almost 300 yards.
I do know that several of my guns would shoot as tight comparatively at 100 yards as they did at 1,000 yards , while others, a .223 Ruger HV for one, did not - it shot better at 200 yards than at 100 yards with a PARTICULAR bullet. other bullets worked fairly well.

IIRC ( I will check) Hatcher was using military rifles, and the chambers would be of a different spec(I would assume) than our modern match rifles or even our hunting rifles.

It is one of those subjects that is so involved that one cannot say for certain one way or the other, but only generalize with the caveat of
"Most often this is the case"!!
Cat

[silver]

When my friend Ralph started talking about boattail bullets tightening up groups at longer ranges, I had already read Hatchers Notebook and was able to tell him this was reasonable. I believe Hatcher was using military rifles, but Ralph was using modern rifles in 3006 and a 300 mag. I used Hatcher as a reference because a lot more people on this site know of him than know Ralph. I believe you are right, Cat, a person can only generalize on the subject. A person can say that in this individual rifle and with this load that this has happened. I guess that gives me an excuse/reason to do some load research. Graeme

[duffy4]

Not to do with accuracy really but I load for my Savage 99 in .300 sav.

Overall cartridge length is important for me and the flat base bullets do not take up powder capacity in the cartridge case as much as the boat tails do.


When I went from boat-tail 180 gr. to flat base 165 gr. it was quite a difference.

[j3006]

Try them both. Each rifle shoots different. My father shoots great with flats out of m70 winchester 30-06; and my Browning 30-06 shoots great with bolttails.

IMO you need to try different ammo in you rifle to see what works.

When I was younger I used what my father used. and he always could out shoot me. As I got old I tried different brand and bullet grs. And like hell he cannot out shot me.( only if I let him)

Try different brand and weights and use what works.


Cheers.