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  #31  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:14 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
So you're relying on the awareness and honesty of the guy who walked into a church and opened fire..... seems like a reasonable system.
That is about as reasonable as depending on the police to always be around to protect you. There will always be those people who will choose not to obey our laws, and our legal system will never be able to prevent that. And even if you outlaw the ownership of firearms except for the police and military, the criminals will still obtain firearms. In Canada, they have even obtained prohibited weapons from the police, as in the Calgary incident where the officer left a carbine in his police vehicle to be stolen, or in B.C. when an officer left his loaded service pistol laying around on a ferry for anyone including criminals or children to find. If the police can't even keep their firearms away from criminals, how do you expect to disarm all criminals?
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  #32  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
No it won't. Far as they are concerned if there were no guns, incidents like this wouldn't happen.
Just like if we outlaw alcohol there'd be no drinking... seen how that worked out. I'll say it again we need more guns in the hands of good people and less in the hands of bad. We accomplish that by allowing the average citizen to protect life and property, issuing CCW permits, and hiring more officers to crack down on the illegal gun trade.
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  #33  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:24 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Is that not how the law works? The honesty and integrity of the common citizen?
Yeah that's my point exactly.

That guy still managed to walk into a store buy a guy then use it to shoot people in a church.

I don't think we need to change a thing about our gun laws here, but I think they have a problem in the states.

1 guy tries to bomb a plane with a shoe and we are all still removing our shoes at the airport.

How many mass shootings in the last couple years and nothing down there.


Makes me glad I'm Canadian, I hope it's a trend that never makes its way to us.
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  #34  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Just like if we outlaw alcohol there'd be no drinking... seen how that worked out. I'll say it again we need more guns in the hands of good people and less in the hands of bad. We accomplish that by allowing the average citizen to protect life and property, issuing CCW permits, and hiring more officers to crack down on the illegal gun trade.
We know.
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  #35  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:26 AM
BackPackHunter BackPackHunter is offline
 
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if This hero was in Canada he’d be going to jail
What a joke this country is...
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  #36  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:29 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
Yeah that's my point exactly.

That guy still managed to walk into a store buy a guy then use it to shoot people in a church.

I don't think we need to change a thing about our gun laws here, but I think they have a problem in the states.

1 guy tries to bomb a plane with a shoe and we are all still removing our shoes at the airport.

How many mass shootings in the last couple years and nothing down there.


Makes me glad I'm Canadian, I hope it's a trend that never makes its way to us.
We had never experienced a terrorist attack until very recently, but now we have, and you can bet that it will happen again in the future. Get used to Canada becoming less and less of a safe place to be.
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  #37  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:33 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
That is about as reasonable as depending on the police to always be around to protect you. There will always be those people who will choose not to obey our laws, and our legal system will never be able to prevent that. And even if you outlaw the ownership of firearms except for the police and military, the criminals will still obtain firearms. In Canada, they have even obtained prohibited weapons from the police, as in the Calgary incident where the officer left a carbine in his police vehicle to be stolen, or in B.C. when an officer left his loaded service pistol laying around on a ferry for anyone including criminals or children to find. If the police can't even keep their firearms away from criminals, how do you expect to disarm all criminals?
So are you advocating removing all laws and every man for himself then? I'm not sure what your point is?


What I would change in Alberta and Canada both is not our gun laws but our legal system. Make criminals scared to break the law let alone get caught.

If anybody was at the rural crime meeting in Mannville they had a speaker there. Ex drug addict, thief ECT who detailed how going to prison expanded good contacts and access to drugs. It wasn't a scary place at all.

Made him a better criminal.



Incidentally there is another meeting in Marwayne on the 14th at 7 in the town hall if anybody is interested.
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  #38  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
We had never experienced a terrorist attack until very recently, but now we have, and you can bet that it will happen again in the future. Get used to Canada becoming less and less of a safe place to be.
Um I'm assuming you mean you personally and not Canada because there have been terrorist attacks here for a very long time. Just not by ISIS.
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  #39  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:41 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
Yeah that's my point exactly.

That guy still managed to walk into a store buy a guy then use it to shoot people in a church.

I don't think we need to change a thing about our gun laws here, but I think they have a problem in the states.

1 guy tries to bomb a plane with a shoe and we are all still removing our shoes at the airport.

How many mass shootings in the last couple years and nothing down there.


Makes me glad I'm Canadian, I hope it's a trend that never makes its way to us.
Ok, I'm lost. What is your point here? Do more laws mean less crime?
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  #40  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:43 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
So are you advocating removing all laws and every man for himself then? I'm not sure what your point is?


What I would change in Alberta and Canada both is not our gun laws but our legal system. Make criminals scared to break the law let alone get caught.

If anybody was at the rural crime meeting in Mannville they had a speaker there. Ex drug addict, thief ECT who detailed how going to prison expanded good contacts and access to drugs. It wasn't a scary place at all.

Made him a better criminal.



Incidentally there is another meeting in Marwayne on the 14th at 7 in the town hall if anybody is interested.
I am just pointing out that even more laws won't change anything. As you posted, the criminals have no fear of our legal system, because if anything it protects them from the citizens that would protect themselves and their property if they were allowed to. Now if castle law was introduced, and the citizens were allowed to protect their property, as well as themselves, the thieves would have more to fear. How many people would be breaking into garages and homes if the citizens were allowed to shoot them as soon as they entered the building?
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  #41  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:47 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
Um I'm assuming you mean you personally and not Canada because there have been terrorist attacks here for a very long time. Just not by ISIS.
If you look at the incidents that have been officially labelled as terrorist attacks by our authorities, they only started occurring fairly recently. But it is inevitable that more and more terrorist attacks will occur in Canada.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...d-attacks.html
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  #42  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:51 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Ok, I'm lost. What is your point here? Do more laws mean less crime?
My point was that guy with his history was able to buy a gun.

I don't know what the answer is, I do know that doing nothing has resulted in more of the same.
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  #43  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:55 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If you look at the incidents that have been officially labelled as terrorist attacks by our authorities, they only started occurring fairly recently. But it is inevitable that more and more terrorist attacks will occur in Canada.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...d-attacks.html
No sorry that is just wrong. Takes about a second to find it.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Canada
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  #44  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:58 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I am just pointing out that even more laws won't change anything. As you posted, the criminals have no fear of our legal system, because if anything it protects them from the citizens that would protect themselves and their property if they were allowed to. Now if castle law was introduced, and the citizens were allowed to protect their property, as well as themselves, the thieves would have more to fear. How many people would be breaking into garages and homes if the citizens were allowed to shoot them as soon as they entered the building?
You are aware that if someone is breaking into your home you're allowed to defend yourself with whatever force you feel is needed.

That said if you shoot someone as they're running away. You'll need a lawyer.
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  #45  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:00 AM
sgill808 sgill808 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
You are aware that if someone is breaking into your home you're allowed to defend yourself with whatever force you feel is needed.

That said if you shoot someone as they're running away. You'll need a lawyer.
This is difficult for some people to comprehend.
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  #46  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:07 AM
Fisherpeak Fisherpeak is offline
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Yup, takes balls to go into a situation that may end up with you being dead.
Most won't do it but will tell you how they would take care of business in the office coffee room.
I`v lived a fairly long time, seen some things, not much scares me anymore. Used to guide bear hunters in Northwest B.C., I`d rather have a good shot at an azz with a gun than follow another badly hit bear into the thick stuff.
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:09 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
So are you advocating removing all laws and every man for himself then? I'm not sure what your point is?


What I would change in Alberta and Canada both is not our gun laws but our legal system. Make criminals scared to break the law let alone get caught.

If anybody was at the rural crime meeting in Mannville they had a speaker there. Ex drug addict, thief ECT who detailed how going to prison expanded good contacts and access to drugs. It wasn't a scary place at all.

Made him a better criminal.



Incidentally there is another meeting in Marwayne on the 14th at 7 in the town hall if anybody is interested.
So give people the right to shoot them if they come after your family or property. Would clean up a lot of junkies pretty quick. People are fed up with the crap going on in rural Alberta. In just the last week there's been 3 major incidents in my area.
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:09 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BackPackHunter View Post
if This hero was in Canada he’d be going to jail
What a joke this country is...
You are wrong on both counts.
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  #49  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:15 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
You are aware that if someone is breaking into your home you're allowed to defend yourself with whatever force you feel is needed.

That said if you shoot someone as they're running away. You'll need a lawyer.
Wrong, if you shoot them the police will want to see how your guns and ammo are stored, and ask why you didnt retreat? If you went and grabbed it before they came in the house thats premeditated and you'll need a lawyer. It's better if you see them coming to just go out the back door and take your best gun with you in case you need it. Also give your wive a gun and make sure she knows how to use it. Which is what I would do at this point. Get my family to safety and protect them using a defensive position. These idiots want to follow then they're done.

Edit: The whole point is they make it very clear in the firearms course that you can't possess firearms on the basis of protection. Firearms in Canada are for hunting, target shooting, and collecting. They should also open it up to protection IMO with the way this country is going.
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  #50  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:17 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
You are wrong on both counts.
So youre allowed to use and transport an AR-15 in Canada outside a range without the CFO's authority?
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  #51  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:19 AM
sgill808 sgill808 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Wrong, if you shoot them the police will want to see how your guns and ammo are stored, and ask why you didnt retreat? If you went and grabbed it before they came in the house thats premeditated and you'll need a lawyer. It's better if you see them coming to just go out the back door and take your best gun with you in case you need it. Also give your wive a gun and make sure she knows how to use it. Which is what I would do at this point. Get my family to safety and protect them using a defensive position. These idiots want to follow then they're done.
You mean the police will ask you questions if you shoot someone? Jee, what a world we live in.
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  #52  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:23 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sgill808 View Post
You mean the police will ask you questions if you shoot someone? Jee, what a world we live in.
I dont think you understand that if you use a firearm for protection in Canada, you are violating the law and will be charged. I have no problems with the questions. The problem I have is making law abiding citizens criminals for protecting themselves using a firearm.
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  #53  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:23 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So youre allowed to use and transport an AR-15 in Canada outside a range without the CFO's authority?
Shooting at someone and pursuing them as they flee with a restricted weapon would get you in big trouble in Canada. You would be treated as a criminal, not as a hero.
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  #54  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:27 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Shooting at someone and pursuing them as they flee with a restricted weapon would get you in big trouble in Canada. You would be treated as a criminal, not as a hero.
He'd probably be labeled a TERRORIST! Which right now I guess isn't a bad thing in Canada. I mean the worst that would happen is Trudeau would give him 10M and hug it out.
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  #55  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:32 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So give people the right to shoot them if they come after your family or property. Would clean up a lot of junkies pretty quick. People are fed up with the crap going on in rural Alberta. In just the last week there's been 3 major incidents in my area.
Are you doing anything about it besides telling us how bad you want to shoot someone?
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  #56  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:34 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Wrong, if you shoot them the police will want to see how your guns and ammo are stored, and ask why you didnt retreat? If you went and grabbed it before they came in the house thats premeditated and you'll need a lawyer. It's better if you see them coming to just go out the back door and take your best gun with you in case you need it. Also give your wive a gun and make sure she knows how to use it. Which is what I would do at this point. Get my family to safety and protect them using a defensive position. These idiots want to follow then they're done.

Edit: The whole point is they make it very clear in the firearms course that you can't possess firearms on the basis of protection. Firearms in Canada are for hunting, target shooting, and collecting. They should also open it up to protection IMO with the way this country is going.

Not according to the attorney at the crime meeting in Mannville. But by all means fuel your fire instead of actually doing something to make a difference.
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  #57  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:37 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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I dont think you understand that if you use a firearm for protection in Canada, you are violating the law and will be charged. I have no problems with the questions. The problem I have is making law abiding citizens criminals for protecting themselves using a firearm.
No you aren't. You just aren't allowed to initiate conflict with one. If someone is breaking into your house you're protecting yourself and family. If you run out into your lawn you are no longer protecting yourself you are chasing someone to shoot them. Big difference.
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  #58  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:38 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Are you doing anything about it besides telling us how bad you want to shoot someone?
**** you, you *****. I dont want to shoot anyone, which can clearly be seen in my post on retreating and letting these idiots take anything in my house. I want these junkies to stop holding people at gun point and threatening my family and friends with firearms.

Im telling you what Im hearing around my area, people are fed up and going to start taking the law into their own hands. Its coming guaranteed, just a matter of time.
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  #59  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:39 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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My point was that guy with his history was able to buy a gun.

I don't know what the answer is, I do know that doing nothing has resulted in more of the same.
Exactly. He was a criminal and was able to buy a gun. ILLEGALLY. He also killed a lot of people. ILLEGALLY. You are frowning on the government for not preventing crime, but yet you are not realizing that crime is in the hands of criminal. It is a people problem, not a gun problem. As I said, the left is going to have a tough time with this. You are confirming that.

And as for doing nothing - what are you wanting the government in America to do that would prevent these incidents?
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  #60  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:39 AM
sgill808 sgill808 is offline
 
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Seems to me like some guys are just looking for written permission to shoot someone.
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