Bill 6 rammed through

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by raab

They don't start working on the regulations until after its passed. It makes no sense to come up with regulations for a bill that theoretically might not pass in the legislature. It would be a giant waste of time for everyone involved if the bill was voted down.

They have a majority...how is a bill not gonna pass?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

They have a majority...how is a bill not gonna pass?

Exactly! There was absolutely no doubt that the bill would not pass, so they could have made an effort to discuss some details with those effected beforehand.

[raab]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

They have a majority...how is a bill not gonna pass?

In theory it may not pass. As I said it would be unusual for them to write up the regulations before the legislation passed. That's how our government works. I was dissapointed to see no one explained this to farmers at the rallys. As I feel many don't understand the legislative process.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by raab

In theory it may not pass. As I said it would be unusual for them to write up the regulations before the legislation passed. That's how our government works. I was dissapointed to see no one explained this to farmers at the rallys. As I feel many don't understand the legislative process.

Speaking to farmers, it's more a case of them not trusting the current government , and I believe that they have a valid concern.

[raab]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Speaking to farmers, it's more a case of them not trusting the current government , and I believe that they have a valid concern.

Which is fine, but the legislation was going through and to my understanding the regulations will be made up with input from the farmers. If that doesn't happen then we should have seen these rallys and got the media attention on what the government was actually trying to do. Right now the general public has no sympathy overall for farmers because its perceived as they don't want safety or employment standards to apply to their workers. If you came back to the media with regulations saying that anyone under 18 can't drive tractors or participate in farm activities, etc.. then you would have seen more support IMO.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by raab

In theory it may not pass. As I said it would be unusual for them to write up the regulations before the legislation passed. That's how our government works. I was dissapointed to see no one explained this to farmers at the rallys. As I feel many don't understand the legislative process.

Yes, farmers are a bunch of dummies.

By the time the "rallys " were required, all trust, if there was any to start, was long gone. The ndp's intent to include all farms , as was originally written and published on wcb and the gov faq page, and their subsequent horse excrement story that it was a mistake, and was never the intent, is the reason the rallys were needed. It's not like they planned these tours to garner support for the idea in a up front manner. This was a reaction. Remember , their intent is what started this.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by raab

Which is fine, but the legislation was going through and to my understanding the regulations will be made up with input from the farmers. If that doesn't happen then we should have seen these rallys and got the media attention on what the government was actually trying to do. Right now the general public has no sympathy overall for farmers because its perceived as they don't want safety or employment standards to apply to their workers. If you came back to the media with regulations saying that anyone under 18 can't drive tractors or participate in farm activities, etc.. then you would have seen more support IMO.

I wonder if the farmers quit feeding the general public, if that would turn the tide of support. Here is a little morsel of info for you raab, I DGAF if you approve, disapprove or lose sleep over how I do things on my own property. I can prove it.

[raab]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

I wonder if the farmers quit feeding the general public, if that would turn the tide of support. Here is a little morsel of info for you raab, I DGAF if you approve, disapprove or lose sleep over how I do things on my own property. I can prove it.

I don't care what you do either. But the fact is that there's only about 49000 farms in a province of 4M people. And the OH&S and Employment Standards effect other people on your property not you.

[elkhunter11]

Right now the general public has no sympathy overall for farmers because its perceived as they don't want safety or employment standards to apply to their workers.

Of course you won't let the facts get in the way of your argument, but the truth is, that most Alberta residents do support the farmers.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...d-farm-workers

As protests against the NDP government’s farm safety legislation pick up steam, a new poll indicates most Albertans oppose the bill — although people are split over precisely who should be protected by the changes.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by raab

Which is fine, but the legislation was going through and to my understanding the regulations will be made up with input from the farmers. If that doesn't happen then we should have seen these rallys and got the media attention on what the government was actually trying to do. Right now the general public has no sympathy overall for farmers because its perceived as they don't want safety or employment standards to apply to their workers. If you came back to the media with regulations saying that anyone under 18 can't drive tractors or participate in farm activities, etc.. then you would have seen more support IMO.

??, did you go to any of the rallys?, have you talked to any farmers/ranchers about what their concerns are?, you admitted that you had not read the proposed bill, but yet you had a narrow minded view of why it was "good". The farmers and ranchers are just as concerned about safety, maybe more given their occupation, than anyone else. The safety policies at the railway that you are supposed to adhere to, have minimal effect on your day to day life, and you would have a right to question what the company's ulterior motive was if you had some concerns?, why should the "general Public" have some concerns because the farmers were asking questions about an ill conceived, horribly lousy written bill that she tried ramming thru' under the radar?. I will ask you one more time....the next time you and your union brethren are up for a contract renewal, would you sign it without looking at it and have the company tell you they will fill in the blank pages later? She effectively told the farmers and ranchers of this province that they were too stupid to run their own business so she would pass laws to smarten them up....

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by raab

I don't care what you do either. But the fact is that there's only about 49000 farms in a province of 4M people. And the OH&S and Employment Standards effect other people on your property not you.

oh that's right, you know whats best for the rest.

that should be the liberal mantra...we know whats best for the rest!

it even rhymes.


Edit- Hal and Elkhunter, can you continue taking care of this, I got to go split a tractor. thanks.

[Suka]

Bill 6 Town Hall mtg Today, Sat. Dec. 12th, Bow Island Multiplex, 2-4PM

Drew Barnes will be in attendance.

[raab]

Originally Posted by hal53

??, did you go to any of the rallys?, have you talked to any farmers/ranchers about what their concerns are?, you admitted that you had not read the proposed bill, but yet you had a narrow minded view of why it was "good". The farmers and ranchers are just as concerned about safety, maybe more given their occupation, than anyone else. The safety policies at the railway that you are supposed to adhere to, have minimal effect on your day to day life, and you would have a right to question what the company's ulterior motive was if you had some concerns?, why should the "general Public" have some concerns because the farmers were asking questions about an ill conceived, horribly lousy written bill that she tried ramming thru' under the radar?. I will ask you one more time....the next time you and your union brethren are up for a contract renewal, would you sign it without looking at it and have the company tell you they will fill in the blank pages later? She effectively told the farmers and ranchers of this province that they were too stupid to run their own business so she would pass laws to smarten them up....

Would you stop saying there's blank pages Also I've read the bill, it's poorly written as you need to pull out all the acts to know what they're actually getting at. And their not even comparable situations regarding contracts and legislation so drop it.

What I'd like explained to me is why if I start a home based business valued at say 10 thousand why I'm required to comply to OH&S standards and employment standards as well as WCB coverage for my employees, but a farm valued at 1M+ (many farmers on here have said is a small farm) are not required to? Can anyone make a valid argument why the rules should apply to my little home based business but not farms that are valued significantly higher and often would employee more people?

Also people keep comparing farms to the O&G industry regulations. O&G companies go above and beyond what the regulations state because they want the best safety record of any industry.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by raab

Would you stop saying there's blank pages Also I've read the bill, it's poorly written as you need to pull out all the acts to know what they're actually getting at. And their not even comparable situations regarding contracts and legislation so drop it.

What I'd like explained to me is why if I start a home based business valued at say 10 thousand why I'm required to comply to OH&S standards and employment standards as well as WCB coverage for my employees, but a farm valued at 1M+ (many farmers on here have said is a small farm) are not required to? Can anyone make a valid argument why the rules should apply to my little home based business but not farms that are valued significantly higher and often would employee more people?

Also people keep comparing farms to the O&G industry regulations. O&G companies go above and beyond what the regulations state because they want the best safety record of any industry.

You just don't get it.

What if there was a new bill that said your house needed to be brought up to 2015 building codes by Jan. 1st. 2016 or face fines? It is not much different than what was originally put out by the NDP and if it wasn't for the protests there wouldn't have been amendments.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by gevarm guy

Do you pay cash!! lol
i don't remember you giving cash for work, do you??? I didn't think so..

Then the farmer loses the tax write off...

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by raab

What do the original docs say? That was my understanding that the farmers would be consulted on OH&S regulations over the next year.

Yes, like the list of groups that they said were consulted about bill 6?? My dad knows a few heads of the orgs and folk that was 'consulted'. He phoned a few of the head of the orgs and folk that he knows and asked if they were consulted.

Their responses for all that he called were, "NO, WHY DO YOU ASK????"

[horsepower]

Saying there have been consultations or there will be consultations is a red herring put out by government and propagated by media thus causing people to give legitimacy to (in this case) bill 6. Consultations are useless if they are made in bad faith or are one sided. Example. My wife and I consulted about her desire to go Christmas shopping ... while she was getting her coat on ... and had Christmas list in hand .. while greeting the neighbours kid to babysit. Get it?

Smoke and mirrors. I have the original documents from WCB and Government websites printed out that clearly states in FAQ pages how Bill 6 would change what could and could not be done. The NDP government have backtracked, sidetracked, undertracked, and overtracked to the point where I and (I believe) many, many others do not trust them. Period.

I was at a rally. I stood amongst the politicians, their handlers, media, government representatives, etc.. I saw confusion, damage control, and a general we don't care but we have to give an appearance attitude. I talked with those I stood amongst and I lost respect. Period

To regain my trust and respect this government will have to change their ways and start showing trust and respect back for both the province and the population over which they have been given the privilege to govern.

[lilsundance]

Lets wait and see what changes are made now its gone through.