Bill 6 rammed through

[Kanonfodder]

Originally Posted by raab

Maybe I shouldn't say the WRP in particular but definitely some of their more vocal supporters on this board. Things like OH&S will search your house without warrant, kids won't be able to help out/ do their 4H anymore, OH&S is going to make the farmers lives so miserable they'll have to shut down, etc…

While I don't necessarily like the whole Bill, I feel it was a lot of hoopla about nothing. The OH&S regulations will have consultation and input from farmers before being implemented in 2017. I don't like the mandatory WCB but IIRC every other business needs to carry it for their workers in the province. And lastly the changes to Employment Standards have been a long time coming. This bill wasn't that bad compared to the Carbon tax. Where were the rallies against that from farmers? The Carbon tax might hurt them more then Bill 6 when its all said and done.

Hate to burst your bubble as I have the original bill6 tech docs that dispute this

[Y2K]

I farm/ranch but almost never hire anyone other than a few hours 1 maybe 2 days out of year. Will this effect me?

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Y2K

I farm/ranch but almost never hire anyone other than a few hours 1 maybe 2 days out of year. Will this effect me?

As it is now, no one can answer your question for certain but chances are it will impact you , in very negative ways.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by raab

A lot of the farm incidents in Alberta are not recorded as I believe 45% of the hospitals don't report farm injuries if they come in. When the new OH&S legislation comes in we should have a better idea where we stand in comparison to other provinces.

Liberal barrel wash! And not from Whiskey barrels either.

Hospitals record everything, if they are treating farm related injuries there is proof, go get it or use some crazy glue on your lips.

[Kanonfodder]

Originally Posted by Y2K

I farm/ranch but almost never hire anyone other than a few hours 1 maybe 2 days out of year. Will this effect me?

Yes it will the moment you hire someone for a wage unless related to you you will have to be OH&S compliant

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by OpenRange

I think farmers and ranchers should join the Farmworkers Union of Alberta, vote to boot out Eric Musekamp and then vote to disband and kill the union. LOL. We can do that right? That guys been pushing for this thing for forever. He's probably got some stipulation that he gets to stay on as Supreme Commander of the Union. Would love to stick it to him a little and see him kicked out of his own party and watch it get lit on fire. What a Christmas present that would be. Hell, I might even pi$$ on the unions ashes!

Why bother, he is Czar of nothing. A wannabe with no one to follow him.

The NDP have him talking for them because he is on their side, not because he has any power or because he knows anything.

They are desperate to show some public support because they know there is very little and because they consulted no one.

He's as much of a threat to us as a breeze coming over the honey wagon.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

regardless, the right to unionize could be given to farm workers, without the WCB and OH and S requirement could it not?

Of course it could. But this is not about unionizing as some seem to think.

The NDP might think it is, I can't say about that but I can say there is no way there will ever be a farm workers union in Alberta, for a lot of reasons.

#1, aside from one or two bad actors who employ one or two people, farmers for the most part treat their workers a lot better then any other business.

We are well paid, respected, often welcomed as part of the family, and work with a hands on owner who knows what it's like to be literally out in the field.
It's like no other business I have worked for, where even with union protection, OH&S protection and WCB protection I was just another number. Not respected, not listened to, often not paid well for what I was being asked to do.

There is simply not enough disgruntled farm workers to want to unionize, even if most of us did, and we don't.

[coreya3212]

Raab is dodging the question tho I don't believe intentionally.

Does being exempted from the current act mean that farm workers cant form a union?

I understand that the act allows everyone else to unionize. Simply put, if dad tells you , you can, you don't need mom to tell you , yes you can. If the supreme court says you can, what about alberta says you cant.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

Yes it will the moment you hire someone for a wage unless related to you you will have to be OH&S compliant

Can a farmer hire someone as a temporary contractor rather than an employee to avoid some of these pitfalls? I know every other business does this here and there. I am thinking more in terms of the seasonal, periodic labour rather than consistent full time workers of course...

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Can a farmer hire someone as a temporary contractor rather than an employee to avoid some of these pitfalls? I know every other business does this here and there. I am thinking more in terms of the seasonal, periodic labour rather than consistent full time workers of course...

I believe that the independent contractor would then require his own WCB coverage.

[Suka]

Originally Posted by Y2K

I farm/ranch but almost never hire anyone other than a few hours 1 maybe 2 days out of year. Will this effect me?

Oh&s inspectors coming on your property unannounced doing random surprise inspections, required courses and fees so you can have a plaque on your wall that says, "farm safety officer". Annual required courses to keep your new title current.
Lot's and lot's of useless paperwork, you'll have to make up operations manuals detailing daily operations of everything you plan to do on your own land with your own equipment. (and get it, "approved") You'll most likely have to take courses so some paper pusher can tell you how to run your equipment, etc.
Whatever other crap they can dream up to justify their bureaucrat jobs.

The above isn't for certain, it's what I've seen bureaucrats do to other industries and what I've read between the lines of what the dip politicians have alluded to. Remember, they first wanted to limit children to 50m of the house. I have no doubt they'll take away as many freedoms as they think they can get away with, just like every other left wing gov't in history.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

I believe that the independent contractor would then require his own WCB coverage.

Exactly my point... It would be the responsibility of the worker if they wanted it and would not leave the farmer without full time, year round employees on the hook. He would obviously have to make that clear to the potential worker before putting him to work, but it could help him avoid the headaches...

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Exactly my point... It would be the responsibility of the worker if they wanted it and would not leave the farmer without full time, year round employees on the hook. He would obviously have to make that clear to the potential worker before putting him to work, but it could help him avoid the headaches...

I thought you were figuring a way to circumvent anyone having it in the work relationship. I suppose as long as you would rather pay a higher wage than WCB....that would work.

[gevarm guy]

Originally Posted by Y2K

I farm/ranch but almost never hire anyone other than a few hours 1 maybe 2 days out of year. Will this effect me?

Do you pay cash!! lol
i don't remember you giving cash for work, do you??? I didn't think so..

[raab]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

Hate to burst your bubble as I have the original bill6 tech docs that dispute this

What do the original docs say? That was my understanding that the farmers would be consulted on OH&S regulations over the next year.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Exactly my point... It would be the responsibility of the worker if they wanted it and would not leave the farmer without full time, year round employees on the hook. He would obviously have to make that clear to the potential worker before putting him to work, but it could help him avoid the headaches...

This is exactly how construction sub-contractors work. When someone hires me as a sub-contractor, unless I have my own WCB number, the general will have to cover my WCB and pay WCB premiums on whatever wages he pays me. Even if I have guys working under me, the contractor has to pay premiums based on the total amount paid to me.

If I have my own WCB number, then the contractor who hires me, doesn't have to pay anything to WCB. And being a business owner, I don't have to pay into WCB for myself. Only for any wages to MY employees or sub-contractors that *I* hire.

So what most general contractors stipulate before they even accept a bid is "you have to have your own WCB number".
Farmers could do the same thing. Just tell any part-time or sub-contract labourers "you have to have your own WCB account". Then Farmer Joe is off the hook for WCB premiums. (He still has to have a WCB account...he just wouldn't have to pay any premiums)

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by raab

What do the original docs say? That was my understanding that the farmers would be consulted on OH&S regulations over the next year.

http://www.wcb.ab.ca/pdfs/employers/...g_coverage.pdf

Here's a hint. Oops it's not there anymore.

It is from here,

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ht=Bill&page=4

Post#114

There is reason farmers are upset.

[elkhunter11]

What do the original docs say? That was my understanding that the farmers would be consulted on OH&S regulations over the next year.

It makes no sense to consult with the farmers AFTER the bill is made into law? Once the bill is passed into law, OH&S can pretty much do what they want, they don't need the farmer's approval. It would make sense for OH&S to meet with the farmers, to settle on the details BEFORE the bill is made into law.

[raab]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It makes no sense to consult with the farmers AFTER the bill is made into law? Once the bill is passed into law, OH&S can pretty much do what they want, they don't need the farmer's approval. It would make sense for OH&S to meet with the farmers, to settle on the details BEFORE the bill is made into law.

That's not how legislation works. They almost always pass the legislation then get input from the minister, and the groups effected when coming up with the regulations.

[Got Juice?]

Thank God. If not for the Gubberment looking out so much for us, we might be extinct (sarcasm)


The 3 scariest words you will hear "I am from the Government, and I am here to help"

Regan sure pegged that one correctly..

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

REALLY

Did you miss bills 45 and 46? That is just off the top of my head. That one had TONS of consultations /sarcasm.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=201130

Governments all push through bills that are not popular with very little consultation. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Hell after the previous federal election the lefties on Facebook were all talking about how everyone would have a f-35 in the driveway. Same dribble, but now it is even worse.

Thats a terrible start and there was consultation before first reading. And then follow up. This was an act to clean up in house first and foremost and we`re talking Red Queen here so it was done ham handed.

The example still is **** poor. Try again.....

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Thats a terrible start and there was consultation before first reading. And then follow up. This was an act to clean up in house first and foremost and we`re talking Red Queen here so it was done ham handed.

The example still is **** poor. Try again.....

BS

There was no consultation, only an unconstitutional law or two. It was rammed through as punitive. No difference at all. Governing party trying to bully and it blew up in the governments face.

http://o.canada.com/news/alberta-gov...h-labour-bills

This bill could blow up in the governments face as well.

How about farther back

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/12/0...al-school-bill

The PCs prevented debate on Bill 202 in the house on Monday while also limiting debate on Bill 10, said Blakeman, calling it "an extraordinary example of democracy derailed."

How about the Federal Government limiting debate and pushing through legislation?

http://rabble.ca/news/2012/06/ten-re...ives-bill-c-38


Is that enough for you?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by raab

That's not how legislation works. They almost always pass the legislation then get input from the minister, and the groups effected when coming up with the regulations.

And given that the government is under no obligation to give any consideration to the input from the effected groups, both sides are just basically wasting their time consulting.

[KegRiver]

What many don't seem to know is that two years ago this Premier was preaching to injured workers about how OH&S and WCB is a failed system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onyY2xMO0w

In her own words she would describe the WCB/OH&S legislation as an injustice. She said it, I didn't.

Now she wants to add more workers to this broken system. That ought to tell folks something about why so many are against this.

It does not work. It will be an added unnecessary, ineffective, burden that stressed farms simply can't cope with.

Most of you know about the drought this past summer, and the swarms of grasshoppper. Think about it. Then add the cost of trying to comply in less then a month, with unknown legislation, (hasn't been completely written yet) and some wonder why farmers are so up in arms!

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And given that the government is under no obligation to give any consideration to the input from the effected groups, both sides are just basically wasting their time consulting.

And this government has demonstrated very clearly that they will not take any input from working people.

I believe you are absolutely right, trying to consult with this government is a total waste of time for everyone involved.

[raab]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

What many don't seem to know is that two years ago this Premier was preaching to injured workers about how OH&S and WCB is a failed system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onyY2xMO0w

In her own words she would describe the WCB/OH&S legislation as an injustice. She said it, I didn't.

Now she wants to add more workers to this broken system. That ought to tell folks something about why so many are against this.

It does not work. It will be an added unnecessary, ineffective, burden that stressed farms simply can't cope with.

Most of you know about the drought this past summer, and the swarms of grasshoppper. Think about it. Then add the cost of trying to comply in less then a month, with unknown legislation, (hasn't been completely written yet) and some wonder why farmers are so up in arms!

Pretty tough to comply when there's no regulations made up. From what I've read and heard there will be consultation for the regulations throughout 2016 and the regulations will come into effect in 2017. If anyone has anything different please share it as I don't mind civil discussion and have no problem admitting I may be wrong on that.

[Mangosteen]

I can just imagine what the antique farm threshing machine will look like once all the city slicker occupational health and safety inspectors get done.
The old threshing machines will have guards, rails, fall arrest lines and harnesses, dust masks, maybe even an eye wash station mounted on top.

Hopefully the consultation process in the next 18 months will consist of the correct people in the correct committees.

Well any committee is just mediocacy across the board anyways.

I do agree with all the farm kids accidents in the past while some step change in farm safety awareness is long overdue having been a farm kid myself. I still have ringing in my ears from that darn belt driven log cutting wheel cutting firewood for the wood stove back in the sixties.

[elkhunter11]

!
Pretty tough to comply when there's no regulations made up

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense to pass the bill, before deciding on the regulations.

[gman1978]

I guess Notley has been receiving death threats over this bill.

[raab]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense to pass the bill, before deciding on the regulations.

They don't start working on the regulations until after its passed. It makes no sense to come up with regulations for a bill that theoretically might not pass in the legislature. It would be a giant waste of time for everyone involved if the bill was voted down.