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  #61  
Old 12-10-2015, 08:27 PM
coreya3212 coreya3212 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by farmer60 View Post
Can't claim to have read the bill, but it is common gov't practice to insert quite non-related things in legislation. Our new premier and ag min have extensive experience in labor relations (Unions). Supposedly, recently, Supreme Judges put a check mark on the right for ag workers to unionize. I hear such is in Bill 6. Another tidbit supposedly included, is removal of surface rights wrt our green energy alternative wind mills. If I'm wrong, I welcome correction.
I don't htink I was clear. The gov claimed that they are required to comply with a supreme court ruling stating all employees have a right to unionize, and farm workers currently are exempted from that ability in alberta. Is that true? Could they unionize or is it currently not an available option to them? I would assume that would be part of the employment standards act?? Does the supreme court ruling dictate this? I am more asking if anyone is familiar with the ruling and can confirm that farm workers currently cant unionize and why.

Also, if its simply part of the employment standard, why could the bill not simpy quilaify them in an amendment to that act? Why WCB, and why OHand S.
  #62  
Old 12-10-2015, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by coreya3212 View Post
I don't htink I was clear. The gov claimed that they are required to comply with a supreme court ruling stating all employees have a right to unionize, and farm workers currently are exempted from that ability in alberta. Is that true? Could they unionize or is it currently not an available option to them? I would assume that would be part of the employment standards act?? Does the supreme court ruling dictate this? I am more asking if anyone is familiar with the ruling and can confirm that farm workers currently cant unionize and why.

Also, if its simply part of the employment standard, why could the bill not simpy quilaify them in an amendment to that act? Why WCB, and why OHand S.
Sorry coreya don't have alot of time to research it tonight but it is a yes and no answer http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle22717100/

http://www.heu.org/publications/onta...s-union-rights
  #63  
Old 12-10-2015, 10:04 PM
anthony5 anthony5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by praire hunter View Post
all this talk of protecting underpaid vulnerable farm workers, I would like to know where they came up with farm workers being under paid, spineless idiots.
I am a farm worker and like most others I am paid well, I will and have refused to do things that I feel are dangerous to myself or others, and so far
I have yet to be fired for it.
when I was managing the cattle end of a large mixed farm, had 2 employees under me, there was a strict standing order that who ever was doing night checks during calving, was to call me no matter what time of the night, if they ran into a cow with a aggressive attitude, and I would come in and deal with it.
and I don't think there are many farm owners who wouldn't do the same.
now I have asked several mla,s how many employees were consulted on this bill, guess what? none could or would answer. may be a bit off topic, but had to rant.
THIS IS HOW IT WORKS IN THIS AREA:

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion but there seems to be some members commenting on the subject that have absolutely no clue, none, zero, zilch, on how farm workers are treated by the farmers that they work for. Prairie Hunter is a classic farm worker that knows how it is, and has been working for all these years. I work for a grain company and am friends with a lot of these so called mistreated farm workers and nothing could be farther from the truth. I cannot speak for the corporate farm operations as we have none in the area and it is a very large area. Red Deer south. Many of the farmer- rancher owners with paid workers are personal friends of mine and would not subject the workers to do work that would put them in personal jeopardy or ask them to do something they would not personally do themselves. Who best to know what is safe or unsafe procedures on their own farm, these family farm owners have been doing this since they were wee lads, lassies. Pretty sure they know a lot more than some govt appointed soul that learned from a book on the safety issues around their farm.
If WCB can give the farm workers better disability insurance( accidents do happen) than what they currently have then great, but it should not be forced on the farmers because we the govt knows best. If the new regime had consulted with the proper farm individuals and workers this may not have been such a cluster f---.

Safety and security is always first and foremost, we in the Grain Handling Industry are legislated by the Federal govt, Labour Canada & OH&S and I do the paper work, Bill C45 has a great impact on trading and safety proceedures so if this happens to the farming community they may need someone to do upkeep on safety paperwork and that may take away some of the dollars that could have gone to the hired farm workers. All I can see from this is a loss for the people that have very comfortable working conditions with their employer. And this new group that THINKS that they know best may screw this up😠
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  #64  
Old 12-10-2015, 10:14 PM
jakebrake jakebrake is offline
 
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Why are there left wing nut jobs on here this is a hunting and gun forum liberals and ndp hate us if you want to spread your left wing views go join the cbc forums.It makes me sick even hearing these people talk.
  #65  
Old 12-10-2015, 10:27 PM
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Why are there left wing nut jobs on here this is a hunting and gun forum liberals and ndp hate us if you want to spread your left wing views go join the cbc forums.It makes me sick even hearing these people talk.
Who would they argue and debate with if everyone is of the same frame of mind? That's why some of them are here...(not all).
  #66  
Old 12-10-2015, 10:32 PM
purgatory.sv purgatory.sv is offline
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Why are there left wing nut jobs on here this is a hunting and gun forum liberals and ndp hate us if you want to spread your left wing views go join the cbc forums.It makes me sick even hearing these people talk.
Because the media allows it.

Fire.
  #67  
Old 12-11-2015, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dfarms11 View Post
The "horrid job" is the understatement of the century!

Take this as you may, but I still don't beleive that if there was no uproar, that they would have exempted the family farm. The writing was in print by WCB what the rules were going to be. Once the rules were there they wouldn't have removed them.

The principle idea of making farms safer im all for. However, Just from The way that this whole debacle was handled, ill never trust them. Just saying.
Problem is you can not exempt the family farms under the old legislation. Even amendments can't do that without completely disarming the existing legislation.

That is why it was not done before. Instead a compromise was arrived at whereby most farms would carry private insurance to cover their workers.

On the down side that program was voluntary. On the plus side the coverage was much better and much more effective then WCB and the cost to farmers induced them to be very safety conscious.

Look at the numbers. Alberta farms have as good and in some cases a better farm safety record the provinces that have OH&S and WCB coverage for farms. And in case you did not know this, those provinces all have farm specific legislation. They did not simply write farms into existing OH&S legislation as the NDP did here.

Over the years I've worn a lot of hats, including farm worker. This year alone I worked for two different farms. This legislation was supposed to be for workers like me but I do not support any part of what the NDP have done.

I am absolutely convinced that it will destroy the viability of most family farms.
I believe this will lead to big corporations taking over farming almost completely, as only a large corporation will be able to make farming profitable.

I don't think anyone needs to be told where that would lead.

Some may call this wining. I could care less what they think. I simply put out to you what I think. Not as an emotional plea, but to have my prospective heard.

I'm simply not willing to let the left do all the talking on this subject.
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  #68  
Old 12-11-2015, 01:38 AM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post

Look at the numbers. Alberta farms have as good and in some cases a better farm safety record the provinces that have OH&S and WCB coverage for farms.
Exactly!

I left the "big business" oil and gas lifestyle for the more simple life and to get back to my roots. The amount of paperwork and stupidity I saw and dealt with in the past was ridiculous and a huge waste of time and money. The first three hours of any day was wasted just on paperwork just to get simple jobs done.

If any of you think that the huge waste of time involved in that paper trail, meetings and permits makes you safer on the job, you need to come back down to reality. Paper and signatures does not make anyone safer from pure stupidity, it only makes it easier for people to get fired when some idiot screws up.

I have been happy, safe and treated very well working on small local family ranches. Better than anywhere I have worked in the past 25 years. Now, everything has changed. **** you NDP and your supporters! Now I am probably going to be out of a job because the small, family ranches I work for don't want anything to do with bill 6.

I am sick and tired of hearing that farm and ranch workers need to be protected by OHS and WCB. Take a leap off of a tall building, we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't want to and we are treated very good or we wouldn't be doing it.
  #69  
Old 12-11-2015, 02:57 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kanonfodder View Post
What fear mongering? I'd love to know specifics
Maybe I shouldn't say the WRP in particular but definitely some of their more vocal supporters on this board. Things like OH&S will search your house without warrant, kids won't be able to help out/ do their 4H anymore, OH&S is going to make the farmers lives so miserable they'll have to shut down, etc…

While I don't necessarily like the whole Bill, I feel it was a lot of hoopla about nothing. The OH&S regulations will have consultation and input from farmers before being implemented in 2017. I don't like the mandatory WCB but IIRC every other business needs to carry it for their workers in the province. And lastly the changes to Employment Standards have been a long time coming. This bill wasn't that bad compared to the Carbon tax. Where were the rallies against that from farmers? The Carbon tax might hurt them more then Bill 6 when its all said and done.
  #70  
Old 12-11-2015, 03:01 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
Problem is you can not exempt the family farms under the old legislation. Even amendments can't do that without completely disarming the existing legislation.

That is why it was not done before. Instead a compromise was arrived at whereby most farms would carry private insurance to cover their workers.

On the down side that program was voluntary. On the plus side the coverage was much better and much more effective then WCB and the cost to farmers induced them to be very safety conscious.

Look at the numbers. Alberta farms have as good and in some cases a better farm safety record the provinces that have OH&S and WCB coverage for farms. And in case you did not know this, those provinces all have farm specific legislation. They did not simply write farms into existing OH&S legislation as the NDP did here.

Over the years I've worn a lot of hats, including farm worker. This year alone I worked for two different farms. This legislation was supposed to be for workers like me but I do not support any part of what the NDP have done.

I am absolutely convinced that it will destroy the viability of most family farms.
I believe this will lead to big corporations taking over farming almost completely, as only a large corporation will be able to make farming profitable.

I don't think anyone needs to be told where that would lead.

Some may call this wining. I could care less what they think. I simply put out to you what I think. Not as an emotional plea, but to have my prospective heard.

I'm simply not willing to let the left do all the talking on this subject.
A lot of the farm incidents in Alberta are not recorded as I believe 45% of the hospitals don't report farm injuries if they come in. When the new OH&S legislation comes in we should have a better idea where we stand in comparison to other provinces.
  #71  
Old 12-11-2015, 03:14 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by coreya3212 View Post
At the town hall meeting I attended, one of the excuses for this ridiculous bill cited was the Supreme Court if canada stating that all workers have the right to unionize, and currently farm workers cannot. Can anyone shed any light on this? True or false...or any insight.
Its in our Charter of Rights & Freedoms under the Freedom of Association. Meaning you have the right to unionize among other things. In Alberta the labour relations code did not apply to farm workers so they could not unionize.
  #72  
Old 12-11-2015, 03:17 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
And that's different than most businesses how? Oil companies clearly have no control over the price of oil. should we de-isnure their workers under wcb and suspend health and safety regulations? I don't hear one energy company advocating that.

And let me be clear, if a farm has no paid workers, I'm fine with them being totally exempt from all this. My only concern is with the farm as a business entity that has paid workers who aren't family. If it's you and the wife and kids, you should be exempt.

One interesting tidbit. A friend in government said "Bill 6 was in the works long before the NDP became the government."
Prentice & Redford were both contemplating bringing it in, in some form.

Last edited by raab; 12-11-2015 at 03:32 AM.
  #73  
Old 12-11-2015, 04:37 AM
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Notley thinks she is smart , pulled one over on the rural people that didn't vote for her!!
I think she made a huge mistake , just like Pierre giving us the finger and saying he could care less if we can or can't ship wheat, we won't forget.
So from the farm guys I've talked to tonight there will be a new movement kill it from the inside they like being bureaucrats give them so much paper work it completely overwhelms them.
Plan is to register make sure everything is in order and up to date and then just start filing claims for any and everything , cuts scratches, slivers, soreback .
Fill them so full of crap they come to a stand still because of the work load. Then see if the HAG is smiling.
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  #74  
Old 12-11-2015, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by super7mag View Post
Notley thinks she is smart , pulled one over on the rural people that didn't vote for her!!
I think she made a huge mistake , just like Pierre giving us the finger and saying he could care less if we can or can't ship wheat, we won't forget.
So from the farm guys I've talked to tonight there will be a new movement kill it from the inside they like being bureaucrats give them so much paper work it completely overwhelms them.
Plan is to register make sure everything is in order and up to date and then just start filing claims for any and everything , cuts scratches, slivers, soreback .
Fill them so full of crap they come to a stand still because of the work load. Then see if the HAG is smiling.
Wow, good strategy! And what do bureaucrats do when they feel the pressure of a building workload? Why, they just triple the size of their department and slow down the process even more. Forcing a bureaucrat to a stand still from overwork has never resulted in back peddling on anything.
  #75  
Old 12-11-2015, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Its in our Charter of Rights & Freedoms under the Freedom of Association. Meaning you have the right to unionize among other things. In Alberta the labour relations code did not apply to farm workers so they could not unionize.
You have come full circle. From ohhhh God! Think of the children to yeah now we can unionize! It's nice to see you've finally come out of the closet and admitted it was for union control.

Congratulations on your win comrade. Now the real battle starts.
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  #76  
Old 12-11-2015, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
there is a reson every othet province has a version of this bill. its not a socialist scheme but rather is aimed at helping workers on large farms. Family farms are exempt. The govt did a horrid job introducing and communicating but the bill as amended is fine. much ado about nothing.
Thank you. It seems a lot of people dont actually read or listen. They are just addicted to crying, because it still hurts from losing an election.

Last edited by drhu22; 12-11-2015 at 06:21 AM.
  #77  
Old 12-11-2015, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by super7mag View Post
Notley thinks she is smart , pulled one over on the rural people that didn't vote for her!!
I think she made a huge mistake , just like Pierre giving us the finger and saying he could care less if we can or can't ship wheat, we won't forget.
So from the farm guys I've talked to tonight there will be a new movement kill it from the inside they like being bureaucrats give them so much paper work it completely overwhelms them.
Plan is to register make sure everything is in order and up to date and then just start filing claims for any and everything , cuts scratches, slivers, soreback .
Fill them so full of crap they come to a stand still because of the work load. Then see if the HAG is smiling.
Problem being, the useless people in WCB have that figured out. The more incidents you have , the higher your premium goes...see...that's the way they make you safer, just charge more..
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  #78  
Old 12-11-2015, 06:20 AM
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i'm not sure how alberta is set up as far as having to unionize if the workers don't want to be in a union they should have the choice if not have the worker sign a ten year probation contract were if not doing their job good by that would take care of any who might want to start a union on that farm don't know if you can carry that long. who would want to join a union unless they had no choice union dues alone would stop me from that choice the only ones that I've known through my experience is the lazy ones that work hard until the probation period is over then they work only when they have and not very efficiently .
As far as wcb that could be mandatory .
  #79  
Old 12-11-2015, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gunsight View Post
i'm not sure how alberta is set up as far as having to unionize if the workers don't want to be in a union they should have the choice if not have the worker sign a ten year probation contract were if not doing their job good by that would take care of any who might want to start a union on that farm don't know if you can carry that long. who would want to join a union unless they had no choice union dues alone would stop me from that choice the only ones that I've known through my experience is the lazy ones that work hard until the probation period is over then they work only when they have and not very efficiently .
As far as wcb that could be mandatory .
WCB OR some other form of insurance which is cheaper and more far reaching than WCB should be mandatory...which 99% of the farmers and ranchers now carry anyway....
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  #80  
Old 12-11-2015, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
no. The only way they'll be brought to heel is if there is a very real threat that they will lose power before they can ram through their agenda...
How? People were gullible enough to vote them in. I am sure there were several people on here who voted for them. We are our own worse enemies. Reap what you sow.
  #81  
Old 12-11-2015, 06:53 AM
AI 6.5 AI 6.5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hoehne View Post
So much for the New "democratic" Party.

Change.org Alberta recall-sign the Petition so we can tell these clowns how we feel, is now 50,000+ and climbing.
We had our chance, it was called an election. Too late now unfortunately.
  #82  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:01 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by AI 6.5 View Post
We had our chance, it was called an election. Too late now unfortunately.
Exactly, those people gullible enough to vote for the NDP brought this upon us, and now we all have to suffer until the next election.
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  #83  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:01 AM
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We had our chance, it was called an election. Too late now unfortunately.
No excuse to sit back and cry in your beer. We supposedly live in a democracy all the time, not just once every four years.
  #84  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:11 AM
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Default Bill 6 deception

Hey Dudes and Dudettes...

your focusing on the deception part of the bill. The real reason for this bill is to take away property rights this way they will be able to seize your land and put wind power mills up where ever they feel like.

The red star is here...

PS the populus could converge on the house and occupy it arrest the government and force a stand down. If the people get together we are more powerful than any government agency in numbers alone.

Its ours we should take it back.

Breech of public trust sounds good to me.
  #85  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:17 AM
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I think farmers and ranchers should join the Farmworkers Union of Alberta, vote to boot out Eric Musekamp and then vote to disband and kill the union. LOL. We can do that right? That guys been pushing for this thing for forever. He's probably got some stipulation that he gets to stay on as Supreme Commander of the Union. Would love to stick it to him a little and see him kicked out of his own party and watch it get lit on fire. What a Christmas present that would be. Hell, I might even pi$$ on the unions ashes!
  #86  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
I'm gonna love it when all land owners are going to want to see your wildrose membership card in order to access their land for hunting or hiking.....love it.
That's actually a pretty good idea.
  #87  
Old 12-11-2015, 09:04 AM
coreya3212 coreya3212 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Its in our Charter of Rights & Freedoms under the Freedom of Association. Meaning you have the right to unionize among other things. In Alberta the labour relations code did not apply to farm workers so they could not unionize.
The labour code exempts farmers, but what exempts them from unionizing if they are afforded that right in the charter?

Does the alberta code state that farmers may not unionize or does it just say on page one that the following does not apply to farm employees.

regardless, the right to unionize could be given to farm workers, without the WCB and OH and S requirement could it not?
  #88  
Old 12-11-2015, 09:31 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Suka View Post
That's actually a pretty good idea.
I like the idea. A few landowners whose property I hunt on already ask to see a hunting license.
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  #89  
Old 12-11-2015, 09:58 AM
raab raab is offline
 
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Originally Posted by coreya3212 View Post
The labour code exempts farmers, but what exempts them from unionizing if they are afforded that right in the charter?

Does the alberta code state that farmers may not unionize or does it just say on page one that the following does not apply to farm employees.

regardless, the right to unionize could be given to farm workers, without the WCB and OH and S requirement could it not?
Agricultural workers are excluded from the labour relations code. In order for them to unionize they'd need to fight the Alberta legislation in court is my understanding. I think Notley wanted to be preemptive and change the legislation before the province got sued. I also dont think it hurt that she's backed by some major unions.

On OH&S I'm sure she could have excluded it, but why? All the new OH&S regulations are going to have farmers consultation before being implemented. I doubt we'll see things like hard hats on the family farms or investigators breaking down doors to homes.

On WCB I wouldn't have minded if they amended it to say they could carry their own private insurance similar to Saskatchewan.
  #90  
Old 12-11-2015, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by farmer60 View Post
Spoken as would 90% of AB voters. Maybe an uncle or grandfather had rural work experience, but, far removed from how farm work gets done, and rural community. Not saying farmers can't improve safe work methods, no such word as can't. WC is a sad attempt to look after a worker AFTER the injury. In most cases, we already have better insurance. The fear is the infamous inspectors that ride WC coats. A farmer's cost and frustration to bring up all farm work sites to O/F industry standards, would cause many, if not most, to throw in the towel. Utter loss of historic family farm. Compliance is something that non-farm industry has become used to, and you wonder why farmers can't get used to it also. Cost of production would go up, but that is only your money, as a consumer. But red necks like us could not, will not, and history has proven should not conform. Farm families for decades, have worked very effectively, efficiently, and without squawks, in our non compliant farms with injury records typical of other relatively dangerous occupations (one must separate out play incidences from statics). Farmers pay their spouse, and sons and daughters as workers, so I'm afraid to separate family farms from corporate farms would take some discussion. If I've helped in your question, good. If you really didn't want an answer, oh well maybe somebody did.
thank you for the responses' Grizz, Farmer60 and guywithmule. Yes Farmer60 you certainly have answered my question, I honestly don't know what life is like on farms, except it's probably not the easiest of work. I completely understand why everyone is upset with this decision now and the impacts it can have on family farms around here as well as consumers like me. And no I didn't vote NDP, I was happy with the devil I already knew.
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