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11-28-2015, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Noel
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
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Yes. However, I'm just curious if this class will take into consideration that big orange/yellow thingy that rises & sets every morning.
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11-28-2015, 06:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Noel
It's not a matter of the climate having been stable before people, it's a matter that we are influencing the direction and rate of change.
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Even if all that's true, the population bomb is exploding faster than we could reverse it, if that were possible. If you can't cap the population, you're just spitting in the wind. India has a population of 1.3 BILLION and refuses to cap it's emissions. You actually think the measly 30 MILLION in Canada are going to make a difference, even allowing for our more advanced and I emphasize advanced lifestyle are going to make a difference ?
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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11-28-2015, 06:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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If anyone thinks for a second CO2 is causing any significant amount of warming, all you have to do is look at what the proponents of AGW are doing. They are flying all over the planet, heating and cooling multiple giant homes, having many children etc. They are obviously none too concerned about CO2. What they also have in common is they are becoming wealthy off of AGW and they are pilfering more of our income and spreading it around to other people.
It's a scam. And it all started with this little fellow...a friend of Pierre Trudeau, and no doubt he is not a stranger to Trulander either.
We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse. Maurice Strong
“[I am] a socialist in ideology, a capitalist in methodology
“[The Earth Summit will play an important role in] reforming and strengthening the United Nations as the centerpiece of the emerging system of democratic global governance.”
“The concept of national sovereignty has been an immutable, indeed sacred, principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation. It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation states, however powerful. The global community must be assured of environmental security.” - Maurice Strong
Annnnd....speak of the devil... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle27520913/
Canadian businessman and environmentalist Maurice Strong, who served as the founding executive director of the United Nations Environment Program, has died at the age of 86.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau issued a statement describing Strong as an “internationally recognized environmentalist and philanthropist” who “used his remarkable business acumen, organizational skills, and humanity to make the world a better place.”
PS: I have researched it extensively and I have a degree in science (from when they used to teach objective science), but I don't make any money from government or otherwise funded research into scaring the toonies out of people's pockets.
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11-28-2015, 06:46 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
Even if all that's true, the population bomb is exploding faster than we could reverse it, if that were possible. If you can't cap the population, you're just spitting in the wind. India has a population of 1.3 BILLION and refuses to cap it's emissions. You actually think the measly 30 MILLION in Canada are going to make a difference, even allowing for our more advanced and I emphasize advanced lifestyle are going to make a difference ?
Grizz
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Idiots will continue to be "idiots" !! Universities across the world produce several thousands of these "idiots" every year, who are looking for funding and grants, from their various governments and agencies. They (the "idiots) want to further their own personal twisted agenda to make the "common peasants" believe it too !
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11-28-2015, 06:49 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: East Central AB
Posts: 1,112
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Yep 'ol strong made a lot of money on this scam. Too bad for him he can't scam his way out of the afterlife waiting for him.
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11-28-2015, 06:51 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traderal
Yep 'ol strong made a lot of money on this scam. Too bad for him he can't scam his way out of the afterlife waiting for him.
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Nope, doubt he's got enough money to pay off the devil. Hope he enjoys his decline.
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11-28-2015, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
You are right ..... CO2 is not a pollutant - neither is H20, ice cream or pink ponies either ......
I assume you realize ...... CO (carbon monoxide) is not the same as CO2 (carbon dioxide)..... it's the stuff that kill us that needs more attention.
http://www.critical-environment.com/...n-dioxide-co2/
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CO SO2 benzene Hydrocarbons particulates etc. Can all be targeted for zero emissions.
CO2. Let it fly.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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11-28-2015, 07:19 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Noel
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
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Scientists can study nor disprove other scientists that believe in global warming because
A. They can't get funding
B. They will be called names like denier and sceptic
CO2 as a significant climate forced has been in doubt more and more as model fail over and over again.
Again...read with a critical mind.
Post five studies that prove it for you. Don't believe me, a professor, Internet, tv etc. Think for yourself.
I had many utter stupid professors in university.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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11-28-2015, 07:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 540
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The climate is always changing. How else do you explain the mini ice age, the last big ice age when the glaciers moved the Rocky mountains, Lake Agazzi and a Mediterranean climate in Manitoba? You can't just dismiss this information. Man or fossil fuels had nothing to do with those periods of climate change.
So yes the climate is changing but taxing an undetectable gas that is essential to life itself will not solve anything. Man accounts for about 3% of all CO2.
CO2 is not pollution. Container tankers plying the oceans burning bunker crude account for more pollution than all the vehicles in the world.
The sun goes through cycles of heating and cooling. This has more influence on climate change than all other factors. Once the sun starts to super heat and burn out - super nova, the earth will cease to exist.
What is happening in Paris next week is fiction.
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11-28-2015, 11:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: head of Zipper-lip Creek
Posts: 399
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Had a little puke in my mouth when I saw that Trudeau had given a verbal blessing to Maurice Strong. Isn't he still living a life of luxury building cars in China (environmentally friendly of course, note the reductions in Beijing smog!)? Or is his banishment over now that Trudeau's in?
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11-28-2015, 11:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Climat change is imminent, the question is "are we responsible". Threw out history there has been many climatic cycles all resulting in ice ages. I believe that we are not responsible for climat change, but we may be responsible for speeding up the process!!
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12-07-2015, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 62
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Check out this article - breath of fresh air on the subject compared to all the climate change idiots ranting. I mean if you look at old national geographic it was global cooling, then global warming, and now climate change which could literally mean almost anything... [hvnt used a link so hopefully this works]
[URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/please-remain-calm-the-earth-will-heal-itself/article1389062/"]
this is the url in case my link does't work
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/please-remain-calm-the-earth-will-heal-itself/article1389062/
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12-07-2015, 08:56 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Hahaha people still debate this?
Greenhouse gases and sun combine to make heat, more gas=more heat.
What grade is this from? Grade 4 or 5? Lol
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12-07-2015, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Noel
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
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This statement has all the earmarks of the first semester law student at a traffic stop......
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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12-07-2015, 10:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79ford
Hahaha people still debate this?
Greenhouse gases and sun combine to make heat, more gas=more heat.
What grade is this from? Grade 4 or 5? Lol
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Your a smartee. So what process caused the last two ice ages? What process caused the warming? What part did greenhouse gases play?
Is water vapour a greenhouse gas?
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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12-07-2015, 10:12 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79ford
Hahaha people still debate this?
Greenhouse gases and sun combine to make heat, more gas=more heat.
What grade is this from? Grade 4 or 5? Lol
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Move along.....WAIT!......are you saying someone actually taught you something?! Well I'll be.........
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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12-07-2015, 10:42 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Strathcona County
Posts: 2,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Noel
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Scientists can study nor disprove other scientists that believe in global warming because
A. They can't get funding
B. They will be called names like denier and sceptic
CO2 as a significant climate forced has been in doubt more and more as model fail over and over again.
Again...read with a critical mind.
Post five studies that prove it for you. Don't believe me, a professor, Internet, tv etc. Think for yourself.
I had many utter stupid professors in university.
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I was treated like I belonged in a mental institution for questioning why people were so readily accepting "global warming" beliefs when I was taking environmental physics classes. Nobody could provide any further proof than simply regurgitating phrases that sounded like news headlines, including the professors. There is data now that suggests the earth hasn't warmed for the past 17 years or so. Called "the pause" and now Berkeley professor Richard muller and others are speaking out about the "hide the decline". "Climate change" is a governmental agenda by the U.N. to achieve their own control. The whole thing is so flawed is crazy that the facts don't garner more support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
This statement has all the earmarks of the first semester law student at a traffic stop......
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Hahahaha that is bang on. If the guy had a history of trolling I'd say you're right, but I don't know and actually just think it's a sincere question by a young student
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12-07-2015, 10:43 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperdodge
The climate is always changing. How else do you explain the mini ice age, the last big ice age when the glaciers moved the Rocky mountains, Lake Agazzi and a Mediterranean climate in Manitoba? You can't just dismiss this information. Man or fossil fuels had nothing to do with those periods of climate change.
So yes the climate is changing but taxing an undetectable gas that is essential to life itself will not solve anything. Man accounts for about 3% of all CO2.
CO2 is not pollution. Container tankers plying the oceans burning bunker crude account for more pollution than all the vehicles in the world.
The sun goes through cycles of heating and cooling. This has more influence on climate change than all other factors. Once the sun starts to super heat and burn out - super nova, the earth will cease to exist.
What is happening in Paris next week is fiction.
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Actually, I can't say if man has anything to do with climate change, it's impossible to do IMO. Kind of a religious thing.
One of the greenie's website had an analogy about a man and his wife putting unknown amount of money into a bank account with no monthly fees and no interest. So man claims that since it's less money every month and he is not taking any out, then his evil wife must be spending more than she puts in. It is nice and simple analogy. Only I think, that I know enough to believe that a better analogy would be that this man, actually, has a bank account where he doesn't know the interest, neglected fees and not aware of a multiple other users who affect a bottom line way more than his poor wife. He still blames his wife and wants her to be punished for everything.
But as I said, unless you spend your life building a better models you'll never know (even if you do you'll never know for sure). Kind of a religious thing at the moment.
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12-07-2015, 11:43 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suka
Funny how the, "true believers" of the new religion are almost all large city dwellers; you see, the climate in the country is just fine.
Cities are dirty and they stink; when you're flying toward a city (any city) just look for the grease spot on the horizon.
And yes, this new, "carbon tax" is just a cash grab that will accomplish absolutely nothing.
Oh, and what affects our climate more than everything else put together is the sun and the gravity of other heavenly bodies. But then that wouldn't justify destroying freedoms and raising taxes.
Personally if urbanites are hell bent on acting like lemming's I'd say go for it, unfortunately they seem intent on taking the rest of us with them. Enjoy the decline.
The urbanite's wanted chage; well they're going to get it, but it's not going to work out the way they thought in the long run.
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I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna say anything about it but you are completely wrong.
Without city dwellers and urbanites, you would not exist.
The tractor you drive? was it built on a farm?
The clothes you wear, made on the farm?
The TV, computer...etc..etc.. made on the farm?
The food you grow, who is it sold to?
I hate this us against them thing rural people sometimes have.
We work together.
We need each other.
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12-08-2015, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brslk
I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna say anything about it but you are completely wrong.
Without city dwellers and urbanites, you would not exist.
The tractor you drive? was it built on a farm?
The clothes you wear, made on the farm?
The TV, computer...etc..etc.. made on the farm?
The food you grow, who is it sold to?
I hate this us against them thing rural people sometimes have.
We work together.
We need each other.
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Sure we need each other. The urban folks demand the product made from the resources us uneducated toothless hillbillies out in the sticks harvest like lumber, oil, gas, hydro electricity, coal, steel, meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. That's why we are out here harvesting the stuff the urban people demand. We are sick of having millions of urban fingers pointed at us because we are the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. We loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, rig pigs, pipeliners, equipment operators, truck drivers, etc, are tired of being told WE are the cause of all the environmental problems and that we are just a bunch of uneducated rednecks that are too stupid to clean up our act when we are just following the rules set by the URBAN officials and policy makers for harvesting what it is they are demanding. Meanwhile the self righteous 'environmentally conscious' consumers absolve themselves of any blame because the packaging of the newest electronic gadget made out of plastic, they purchased with their plastic card or plastic money that they brought home in a plastic bag says it is 'energy efficient', or the package of fish or vegetables they consume says it comes from a 'sustainable' fishery or farm, or is 'organic', the new car they buy is 'fuel efficient', the new 2500 square foot $350,000 house with marble countertops, carpets, tile, windows, walls ,roofing that are 'energy saving' meanwhile the process to make all these 'environmentally friendly' products is hugely damaging to our environment.
That's Ok though us simple rural rednecks can handle the hypocrisy, we been dealing with it for decades. We will continue to sit back and watch the smug urban environmentalists chastise us while they do 'their part' and continue to buy 'environmentally conscious' products, watch David Suzuki and fly off in a jet to mexico or some place where some poor bastard who works for a few pesos a day and lives in a really environmentally efficient mud hut with a scrap tin roof, serves them drinks in a resort that sits where endangered turtles used to lay their eggs, after breakfast they go out and watch the whales......
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12-08-2015, 11:09 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat
Sure we need each other. The urban folks demand the product made from the resources us uneducated toothless hillbillies out in the sticks harvest like lumber, oil, gas, hydro electricity, coal, steel, meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. That's why we are out here harvesting the stuff the urban people demand. We are sick of having millions of urban fingers pointed at us because we are the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. We loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, rig pigs, pipeliners, equipment operators, truck drivers, etc, are tired of being told WE are the cause of all the environmental problems and that we are just a bunch of uneducated rednecks that are too stupid to clean up our act when we are just following the rules set by the URBAN officials and policy makers for harvesting what it is they are demanding. Meanwhile the self righteous 'environmentally conscious' consumers absolve themselves of any blame because the packaging of the newest electronic gadget made out of plastic, they purchased with their plastic card or plastic money that they brought home in a plastic bag says it is 'energy efficient', or the package of fish or vegetables they consume says it comes from a 'sustainable' fishery or farm, or is 'organic', the new car they buy is 'fuel efficient', the new 2500 square foot $350,000 house with marble countertops, carpets, tile, windows, walls ,roofing that are 'energy saving' meanwhile the process to make all these 'environmentally friendly' products is hugely damaging to our environment.
That's Ok though us simple rural rednecks can handle the hypocrisy, we been dealing with it for decades. We will continue to sit back and watch the smug urban environmentalists chastise us while they do 'their part' and continue to buy 'environmentally conscious' products, watch David Suzuki and fly off in a jet to mexico or some place where some poor bastard who works for a few pesos a day and lives in a really environmentally efficient mud hut with a scrap tin roof, serves them drinks in a resort that sits where endangered turtles used to lay their eggs, after breakfast they go out and watch the whales......
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Somebody needs a hug...
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12-08-2015, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Strathcona County
Posts: 2,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak-71
Somebody needs a hug
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Ak, are you 12?
Bushrat, that was refreshing to read. Even made me laugh a little.
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12-08-2015, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoseto
Ak, are you 12?
Bushrat, that was refreshing to read. Even made me laugh a little.
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No, I am not. But I think Bushrat is, he doesn't seem to know where his tools, tractors, fertilizers, computers, phones, designs, manifacturing for all of the above and much more, as well as research to make it all possible comes from. Talk about "self righteous" .
It's an interconnected world, make piece with it, unless you want to go back to a horse buggy and mail pigeons.
And yes, I agree with the rest of his message.
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12-08-2015, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat
Sure we need each other. The urban folks demand the product made from the resources us uneducated toothless hillbillies out in the sticks harvest like lumber, oil, gas, hydro electricity, coal, steel, meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. That's why we are out here harvesting the stuff the urban people demand. We are sick of having millions of urban fingers pointed at us because we are the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. We loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, rig pigs, pipeliners, equipment operators, truck drivers, etc, are tired of being told WE are the cause of all the environmental problems and that we are just a bunch of uneducated rednecks that are too stupid to clean up our act when we are just following the rules set by the URBAN officials and policy makers for harvesting what it is they are demanding. Meanwhile the self righteous 'environmentally conscious' consumers absolve themselves of any blame because the packaging of the newest electronic gadget made out of plastic, they purchased with their plastic card or plastic money that they brought home in a plastic bag says it is 'energy efficient', or the package of fish or vegetables they consume says it comes from a 'sustainable' fishery or farm, or is 'organic', the new car they buy is 'fuel efficient', the new 2500 square foot $350,000 house with marble countertops, carpets, tile, windows, walls ,roofing that are 'energy saving' meanwhile the process to make all these 'environmentally friendly' products is hugely damaging to our environment.
That's Ok though us simple rural rednecks can handle the hypocrisy, we been dealing with it for decades. We will continue to sit back and watch the smug urban environmentalists chastise us while they do 'their part' and continue to buy 'environmentally conscious' products, watch David Suzuki and fly off in a jet to mexico or some place where some poor bastard who works for a few pesos a day and lives in a really environmentally efficient mud hut with a scrap tin roof, serves them drinks in a resort that sits where endangered turtles used to lay their eggs, after breakfast they go out and watch the whales......
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Well said.I know it's an interconnected world but the hypocrisy of the city people drags me down some days too.
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12-08-2015, 01:02 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 130
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Bushrat, thanks for doing all the typing, you hit the nail on the head.
The pollution in Asia is created by the disposable and over-consumptive lives people lead in the western world. We just use them as the toilet to make all our plastic crap.
Where does all this junk end up at? Walmart and then into the city dump.
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12-08-2015, 03:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 18
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Boy redfrog, this statement just shows how misplaced your knowledge is.
"Take a trip to any major city in mainland China and try and tell me there isn't a problem. There are children there that have never seen a clear sky or the sun without a haze of pollution/smog."
This is exactly why we need a carbon tax in Canada
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12-08-2015, 04:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
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No, the point is don't penalize us here because of what China does.
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12-08-2015, 04:27 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore
No, the point is don't penalize us here because of what China does.
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If the first world didn't demand cheap crap from China they wouldn't be doing what they do.
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12-08-2015, 04:28 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
Although its true the climate has changed on a cycle for as long we can record it through science. What is unclear (and neither camp can absolutely prove anything) ...... is if the rate of change (warming in this case) has been accelerated due to the pollutants we put into the air and dump into our watersheds.
People who proclaim it a hoax are just as ignorant as those who say it's real as far as I'm concerned. They have zero credibility in my opinion and they just want to "take a side" in an argument we simply don't know enough about yet.
I know pollution and climate change are 2 different topics but nobody can argue there isn't some impact or interrelational impact from one to the other.
Take a trip to any major city in mainland China and try and tell me there isn't a problem. There are children there that have never seen a clear sky or the sun without a haze of pollution/smog.
I can't tell you climate change is real or if it's a hoax. My feeling is we better be careful not to ignore the pollution we are creating.
It would really suck to be so close minded and willing to plug our ears to believe what "we want" to be true and end up being wrong wouldn't it? as far as I'm concerned, I have nothing against us having a cleaner environment.
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Very well said! And Agree!
__________________
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eat a snickers
made in Alberta__ born n raised.
FS-Tinfool hats by the roll.
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