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  #31  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Steven Noel View Post
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
Yes. However, I'm just curious if this class will take into consideration that big orange/yellow thingy that rises & sets every morning.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Steven Noel View Post
It's not a matter of the climate having been stable before people, it's a matter that we are influencing the direction and rate of change.
Even if all that's true, the population bomb is exploding faster than we could reverse it, if that were possible. If you can't cap the population, you're just spitting in the wind. India has a population of 1.3 BILLION and refuses to cap it's emissions. You actually think the measly 30 MILLION in Canada are going to make a difference, even allowing for our more advanced and I emphasize advanced lifestyle are going to make a difference ?

Grizz
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:40 PM
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If anyone thinks for a second CO2 is causing any significant amount of warming, all you have to do is look at what the proponents of AGW are doing. They are flying all over the planet, heating and cooling multiple giant homes, having many children etc. They are obviously none too concerned about CO2. What they also have in common is they are becoming wealthy off of AGW and they are pilfering more of our income and spreading it around to other people.

It's a scam. And it all started with this little fellow...a friend of Pierre Trudeau, and no doubt he is not a stranger to Trulander either.

We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse. Maurice Strong

“[I am] a socialist in ideology, a capitalist in methodology
“[The Earth Summit will play an important role in] reforming and strengthening the United Nations as the centerpiece of the emerging system of democratic global governance.”
“The concept of national sovereignty has been an immutable, indeed sacred, principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation. It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation states, however powerful. The global community must be assured of environmental security.”
- Maurice Strong


Annnnd....speak of the devil... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle27520913/

Canadian businessman and environmentalist Maurice Strong, who served as the founding executive director of the United Nations Environment Program, has died at the age of 86.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau issued a statement describing Strong as an “internationally recognized environmentalist and philanthropist” who “used his remarkable business acumen, organizational skills, and humanity to make the world a better place.”



PS: I have researched it extensively and I have a degree in science (from when they used to teach objective science), but I don't make any money from government or otherwise funded research into scaring the toonies out of people's pockets.
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  #34  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Even if all that's true, the population bomb is exploding faster than we could reverse it, if that were possible. If you can't cap the population, you're just spitting in the wind. India has a population of 1.3 BILLION and refuses to cap it's emissions. You actually think the measly 30 MILLION in Canada are going to make a difference, even allowing for our more advanced and I emphasize advanced lifestyle are going to make a difference ?

Grizz
Idiots will continue to be "idiots" !! Universities across the world produce several thousands of these "idiots" every year, who are looking for funding and grants, from their various governments and agencies. They (the "idiots) want to further their own personal twisted agenda to make the "common peasants" believe it too !
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  #35  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:49 PM
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Yep 'ol strong made a lot of money on this scam. Too bad for him he can't scam his way out of the afterlife waiting for him.
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:51 PM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Yep 'ol strong made a lot of money on this scam. Too bad for him he can't scam his way out of the afterlife waiting for him.
Nope, doubt he's got enough money to pay off the devil. Hope he enjoys his decline.
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  #37  
Old 11-28-2015, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
You are right ..... CO2 is not a pollutant - neither is H20, ice cream or pink ponies either ......

I assume you realize ...... CO (carbon monoxide) is not the same as CO2 (carbon dioxide)..... it's the stuff that kill us that needs more attention.

http://www.critical-environment.com/...n-dioxide-co2/
CO SO2 benzene Hydrocarbons particulates etc. Can all be targeted for zero emissions.

CO2. Let it fly.
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  #38  
Old 11-28-2015, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Steven Noel View Post
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
Scientists can study nor disprove other scientists that believe in global warming because

A. They can't get funding
B. They will be called names like denier and sceptic

CO2 as a significant climate forced has been in doubt more and more as model fail over and over again.

Again...read with a critical mind.

Post five studies that prove it for you. Don't believe me, a professor, Internet, tv etc. Think for yourself.

I had many utter stupid professors in university.
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  #39  
Old 11-28-2015, 07:30 PM
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The climate is always changing. How else do you explain the mini ice age, the last big ice age when the glaciers moved the Rocky mountains, Lake Agazzi and a Mediterranean climate in Manitoba? You can't just dismiss this information. Man or fossil fuels had nothing to do with those periods of climate change.
So yes the climate is changing but taxing an undetectable gas that is essential to life itself will not solve anything. Man accounts for about 3% of all CO2.
CO2 is not pollution. Container tankers plying the oceans burning bunker crude account for more pollution than all the vehicles in the world.
The sun goes through cycles of heating and cooling. This has more influence on climate change than all other factors. Once the sun starts to super heat and burn out - super nova, the earth will cease to exist.
What is happening in Paris next week is fiction.
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  #40  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:09 PM
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Had a little puke in my mouth when I saw that Trudeau had given a verbal blessing to Maurice Strong. Isn't he still living a life of luxury building cars in China (environmentally friendly of course, note the reductions in Beijing smog!)? Or is his banishment over now that Trudeau's in?
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  #41  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:38 PM
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Climat change is imminent, the question is "are we responsible". Threw out history there has been many climatic cycles all resulting in ice ages. I believe that we are not responsible for climat change, but we may be responsible for speeding up the process!!
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  #42  
Old 12-07-2015, 07:47 PM
SubMOA SubMOA is offline
 
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Check out this article - breath of fresh air on the subject compared to all the climate change idiots ranting. I mean if you look at old national geographic it was global cooling, then global warming, and now climate change which could literally mean almost anything... [hvnt used a link so hopefully this works]

[URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/please-remain-calm-the-earth-will-heal-itself/article1389062/"]

this is the url in case my link does't work

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/please-remain-calm-the-earth-will-heal-itself/article1389062/
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  #43  
Old 12-07-2015, 08:56 PM
79ford 79ford is offline
 
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Hahaha people still debate this?

Greenhouse gases and sun combine to make heat, more gas=more heat.

What grade is this from? Grade 4 or 5? Lol
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  #44  
Old 12-07-2015, 10:11 PM
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rem338win rem338win is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Noel View Post
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
This statement has all the earmarks of the first semester law student at a traffic stop......
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  #45  
Old 12-07-2015, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 79ford View Post
Hahaha people still debate this?

Greenhouse gases and sun combine to make heat, more gas=more heat.

What grade is this from? Grade 4 or 5? Lol
Your a smartee. So what process caused the last two ice ages? What process caused the warming? What part did greenhouse gases play?

Is water vapour a greenhouse gas?
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  #46  
Old 12-07-2015, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 79ford View Post
Hahaha people still debate this?

Greenhouse gases and sun combine to make heat, more gas=more heat.

What grade is this from? Grade 4 or 5? Lol
Move along.....WAIT!......are you saying someone actually taught you something?! Well I'll be.........
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  #47  
Old 12-07-2015, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Steven Noel View Post
I certainly don't claim to be an expert or anywhere near one, however I am taking a course this semester on global climate dynamics which has provided me a bit of insight into some of the science behind the "99.9% of Scientists Agree in Anthroprogenic Climate Change" claim. To start, would you agree that CO2 and other greenhouse gases (CH4, water vapour etc.) contribute to global temperature through the greenhouse effect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Scientists can study nor disprove other scientists that believe in global warming because

A. They can't get funding
B. They will be called names like denier and sceptic

CO2 as a significant climate forced has been in doubt more and more as model fail over and over again.

Again...read with a critical mind.

Post five studies that prove it for you. Don't believe me, a professor, Internet, tv etc. Think for yourself.

I had many utter stupid professors in university.
I was treated like I belonged in a mental institution for questioning why people were so readily accepting "global warming" beliefs when I was taking environmental physics classes. Nobody could provide any further proof than simply regurgitating phrases that sounded like news headlines, including the professors. There is data now that suggests the earth hasn't warmed for the past 17 years or so. Called "the pause" and now Berkeley professor Richard muller and others are speaking out about the "hide the decline". "Climate change" is a governmental agenda by the U.N. to achieve their own control. The whole thing is so flawed is crazy that the facts don't garner more support.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win View Post
This statement has all the earmarks of the first semester law student at a traffic stop......
Hahahaha that is bang on. If the guy had a history of trolling I'd say you're right, but I don't know and actually just think it's a sincere question by a young student
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  #48  
Old 12-07-2015, 10:43 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by trapperdodge View Post
The climate is always changing. How else do you explain the mini ice age, the last big ice age when the glaciers moved the Rocky mountains, Lake Agazzi and a Mediterranean climate in Manitoba? You can't just dismiss this information. Man or fossil fuels had nothing to do with those periods of climate change.
So yes the climate is changing but taxing an undetectable gas that is essential to life itself will not solve anything. Man accounts for about 3% of all CO2.
CO2 is not pollution. Container tankers plying the oceans burning bunker crude account for more pollution than all the vehicles in the world.
The sun goes through cycles of heating and cooling. This has more influence on climate change than all other factors. Once the sun starts to super heat and burn out - super nova, the earth will cease to exist.
What is happening in Paris next week is fiction.
Actually, I can't say if man has anything to do with climate change, it's impossible to do IMO. Kind of a religious thing.
One of the greenie's website had an analogy about a man and his wife putting unknown amount of money into a bank account with no monthly fees and no interest. So man claims that since it's less money every month and he is not taking any out, then his evil wife must be spending more than she puts in. It is nice and simple analogy. Only I think, that I know enough to believe that a better analogy would be that this man, actually, has a bank account where he doesn't know the interest, neglected fees and not aware of a multiple other users who affect a bottom line way more than his poor wife. He still blames his wife and wants her to be punished for everything.
But as I said, unless you spend your life building a better models you'll never know (even if you do you'll never know for sure). Kind of a religious thing at the moment.
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  #49  
Old 12-07-2015, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Suka View Post
Funny how the, "true believers" of the new religion are almost all large city dwellers; you see, the climate in the country is just fine.

Cities are dirty and they stink; when you're flying toward a city (any city) just look for the grease spot on the horizon.

And yes, this new, "carbon tax" is just a cash grab that will accomplish absolutely nothing.

Oh, and what affects our climate more than everything else put together is the sun and the gravity of other heavenly bodies. But then that wouldn't justify destroying freedoms and raising taxes.

Personally if urbanites are hell bent on acting like lemming's I'd say go for it, unfortunately they seem intent on taking the rest of us with them. Enjoy the decline.

The urbanite's wanted chage; well they're going to get it, but it's not going to work out the way they thought in the long run.

I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna say anything about it but you are completely wrong.
Without city dwellers and urbanites, you would not exist.

The tractor you drive? was it built on a farm?
The clothes you wear, made on the farm?
The TV, computer...etc..etc.. made on the farm?

The food you grow, who is it sold to?

I hate this us against them thing rural people sometimes have.

We work together.

We need each other.
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  #50  
Old 12-08-2015, 07:44 AM
V_1 V_1 is offline
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Originally Posted by drhu22 View Post
Youve done little research, and you want to compare views with a bunch of biased, self interested rednecks. Sounds like a good way to get to the truth of the matter!
Here are few 'rednecks' to listen to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miIE...kdxR4EZVk1y3QA

Dr Tim Ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owm2...kdxR4EZVk1y3QA

Patrick Moore co-founder of Greenpeace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Z5...kdxR4EZVk1y3QA

Prof Valentina Zharkova
Department of Mathematics and Information Sciences
Northumbria University
http://www.ras.org.uk/news-and-press...-double-dynamo


But "True Believers" probably will need something they would be able to comprehend. OK, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qmk...k1y3QA&index=7

Last edited by V_1; 12-08-2015 at 08:00 AM.
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  #51  
Old 12-08-2015, 08:05 AM
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Bushrat Bushrat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by brslk View Post
I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna say anything about it but you are completely wrong.
Without city dwellers and urbanites, you would not exist.

The tractor you drive? was it built on a farm?
The clothes you wear, made on the farm?
The TV, computer...etc..etc.. made on the farm?

The food you grow, who is it sold to?

I hate this us against them thing rural people sometimes have.

We work together.

We need each other.
Sure we need each other. The urban folks demand the product made from the resources us uneducated toothless hillbillies out in the sticks harvest like lumber, oil, gas, hydro electricity, coal, steel, meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. That's why we are out here harvesting the stuff the urban people demand. We are sick of having millions of urban fingers pointed at us because we are the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. We loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, rig pigs, pipeliners, equipment operators, truck drivers, etc, are tired of being told WE are the cause of all the environmental problems and that we are just a bunch of uneducated rednecks that are too stupid to clean up our act when we are just following the rules set by the URBAN officials and policy makers for harvesting what it is they are demanding. Meanwhile the self righteous 'environmentally conscious' consumers absolve themselves of any blame because the packaging of the newest electronic gadget made out of plastic, they purchased with their plastic card or plastic money that they brought home in a plastic bag says it is 'energy efficient', or the package of fish or vegetables they consume says it comes from a 'sustainable' fishery or farm, or is 'organic', the new car they buy is 'fuel efficient', the new 2500 square foot $350,000 house with marble countertops, carpets, tile, windows, walls ,roofing that are 'energy saving' meanwhile the process to make all these 'environmentally friendly' products is hugely damaging to our environment.

That's Ok though us simple rural rednecks can handle the hypocrisy, we been dealing with it for decades. We will continue to sit back and watch the smug urban environmentalists chastise us while they do 'their part' and continue to buy 'environmentally conscious' products, watch David Suzuki and fly off in a jet to mexico or some place where some poor bastard who works for a few pesos a day and lives in a really environmentally efficient mud hut with a scrap tin roof, serves them drinks in a resort that sits where endangered turtles used to lay their eggs, after breakfast they go out and watch the whales......
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  #52  
Old 12-08-2015, 11:09 AM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Sure we need each other. The urban folks demand the product made from the resources us uneducated toothless hillbillies out in the sticks harvest like lumber, oil, gas, hydro electricity, coal, steel, meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. That's why we are out here harvesting the stuff the urban people demand. We are sick of having millions of urban fingers pointed at us because we are the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. We loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, rig pigs, pipeliners, equipment operators, truck drivers, etc, are tired of being told WE are the cause of all the environmental problems and that we are just a bunch of uneducated rednecks that are too stupid to clean up our act when we are just following the rules set by the URBAN officials and policy makers for harvesting what it is they are demanding. Meanwhile the self righteous 'environmentally conscious' consumers absolve themselves of any blame because the packaging of the newest electronic gadget made out of plastic, they purchased with their plastic card or plastic money that they brought home in a plastic bag says it is 'energy efficient', or the package of fish or vegetables they consume says it comes from a 'sustainable' fishery or farm, or is 'organic', the new car they buy is 'fuel efficient', the new 2500 square foot $350,000 house with marble countertops, carpets, tile, windows, walls ,roofing that are 'energy saving' meanwhile the process to make all these 'environmentally friendly' products is hugely damaging to our environment.

That's Ok though us simple rural rednecks can handle the hypocrisy, we been dealing with it for decades. We will continue to sit back and watch the smug urban environmentalists chastise us while they do 'their part' and continue to buy 'environmentally conscious' products, watch David Suzuki and fly off in a jet to mexico or some place where some poor bastard who works for a few pesos a day and lives in a really environmentally efficient mud hut with a scrap tin roof, serves them drinks in a resort that sits where endangered turtles used to lay their eggs, after breakfast they go out and watch the whales......
Somebody needs a hug...


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  #53  
Old 12-08-2015, 11:22 AM
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Somebody needs a hug
Ak, are you 12?

Bushrat, that was refreshing to read. Even made me laugh a little.
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  #54  
Old 12-08-2015, 11:29 AM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kujoseto View Post
Ak, are you 12?

Bushrat, that was refreshing to read. Even made me laugh a little.
No, I am not. But I think Bushrat is, he doesn't seem to know where his tools, tractors, fertilizers, computers, phones, designs, manifacturing for all of the above and much more, as well as research to make it all possible comes from. Talk about "self righteous" .
It's an interconnected world, make piece with it, unless you want to go back to a horse buggy and mail pigeons.

And yes, I agree with the rest of his message.
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  #55  
Old 12-08-2015, 11:38 AM
cat336 cat336 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Sure we need each other. The urban folks demand the product made from the resources us uneducated toothless hillbillies out in the sticks harvest like lumber, oil, gas, hydro electricity, coal, steel, meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. That's why we are out here harvesting the stuff the urban people demand. We are sick of having millions of urban fingers pointed at us because we are the hewers of wood and the drawers of water. We loggers, miners, farmers, fishermen, rig pigs, pipeliners, equipment operators, truck drivers, etc, are tired of being told WE are the cause of all the environmental problems and that we are just a bunch of uneducated rednecks that are too stupid to clean up our act when we are just following the rules set by the URBAN officials and policy makers for harvesting what it is they are demanding. Meanwhile the self righteous 'environmentally conscious' consumers absolve themselves of any blame because the packaging of the newest electronic gadget made out of plastic, they purchased with their plastic card or plastic money that they brought home in a plastic bag says it is 'energy efficient', or the package of fish or vegetables they consume says it comes from a 'sustainable' fishery or farm, or is 'organic', the new car they buy is 'fuel efficient', the new 2500 square foot $350,000 house with marble countertops, carpets, tile, windows, walls ,roofing that are 'energy saving' meanwhile the process to make all these 'environmentally friendly' products is hugely damaging to our environment.

That's Ok though us simple rural rednecks can handle the hypocrisy, we been dealing with it for decades. We will continue to sit back and watch the smug urban environmentalists chastise us while they do 'their part' and continue to buy 'environmentally conscious' products, watch David Suzuki and fly off in a jet to mexico or some place where some poor bastard who works for a few pesos a day and lives in a really environmentally efficient mud hut with a scrap tin roof, serves them drinks in a resort that sits where endangered turtles used to lay their eggs, after breakfast they go out and watch the whales......
Well said.I know it's an interconnected world but the hypocrisy of the city people drags me down some days too.
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  #56  
Old 12-08-2015, 01:02 PM
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Bushrat, thanks for doing all the typing, you hit the nail on the head.

The pollution in Asia is created by the disposable and over-consumptive lives people lead in the western world. We just use them as the toilet to make all our plastic crap.

Where does all this junk end up at? Walmart and then into the city dump.
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  #57  
Old 12-08-2015, 03:59 PM
notpoliticallycorrect notpoliticallycorrect is offline
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Boy redfrog, this statement just shows how misplaced your knowledge is.

"Take a trip to any major city in mainland China and try and tell me there isn't a problem. There are children there that have never seen a clear sky or the sun without a haze of pollution/smog."

This is exactly why we need a carbon tax in Canada
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  #58  
Old 12-08-2015, 04:02 PM
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No, the point is don't penalize us here because of what China does.
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  #59  
Old 12-08-2015, 04:27 PM
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No, the point is don't penalize us here because of what China does.
If the first world didn't demand cheap crap from China they wouldn't be doing what they do.
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  #60  
Old 12-08-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Although its true the climate has changed on a cycle for as long we can record it through science. What is unclear (and neither camp can absolutely prove anything) ...... is if the rate of change (warming in this case) has been accelerated due to the pollutants we put into the air and dump into our watersheds.

People who proclaim it a hoax are just as ignorant as those who say it's real as far as I'm concerned. They have zero credibility in my opinion and they just want to "take a side" in an argument we simply don't know enough about yet.

I know pollution and climate change are 2 different topics but nobody can argue there isn't some impact or interrelational impact from one to the other.

Take a trip to any major city in mainland China and try and tell me there isn't a problem. There are children there that have never seen a clear sky or the sun without a haze of pollution/smog.

I can't tell you climate change is real or if it's a hoax. My feeling is we better be careful not to ignore the pollution we are creating.

It would really suck to be so close minded and willing to plug our ears to believe what "we want" to be true and end up being wrong wouldn't it? as far as I'm concerned, I have nothing against us having a cleaner environment.
Very well said! And Agree!
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