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Old 07-14-2018, 09:13 AM
MrDave MrDave is offline
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Default Why do people try this?

https://rdnewsnow.com/article/591530...n-crash-victim

https://rdnewsnow.com/article/585113...h-taylor-drive

Another scumbag has lost his life trying to flee in a stolen vehicle, and the family and friends are trying to convince us the scum was a good guy.
I was in the area when he was running and my family was put at risk because of his actions. He put one person in the hospital, and could have easily killed her. Yet he was a great, generous guy who was always helping others. Ya right, helping others feel pain.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:19 AM
Venison Assassin Venison Assassin is offline
 
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Your answer in a single word?

Drugs
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:21 AM
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Because our society is so messed up, that people want the criminals to appear to be the victims.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:29 AM
Venison Assassin Venison Assassin is offline
 
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Theres often a lot of co-dependance or someone has been enabling the junkie rather than getting them into a program. Call me cynical but I think a lot of addicts are beyond hope. Some can be brought around to sobriety sure, but how many straighten out enough to really thrive?
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:41 AM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Venison Assassin View Post
Theres often a lot of co-dependance or someone has been enabling the junkie rather than getting them into a program. Call me cynical but I think a lot of addicts are beyond hope. Some can be brought around to sobriety sure, but how many straighten out enough to really thrive?
I work with many addicts who are thriving after beating down their addictions! The strength of the human spirit is inspiring. That being said, some of the strongest proponents I have met on not enabling addicts has been recovered addicts themselves.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:09 AM
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Why do people try this. Because for everyone of them that actually dies they have probably done it dozens of times and thousands of others who do it get away with it. Worst that happens is they get caught a few times, rarely serve time. In a few minutes time they can steal a vehicle, sell it to a chop shop for an eight ball or a few hundred bucks and go get high for the day or have transportation for a few days before they dump it somewhere. For people of that nature it's a pretty low risk and very easy opportunity with very little risk of serious consequences. If they hurt or kill someone along the way it doesn't matter much to them. What's the worst that can happen to them? They pretend they are sorry when they're in front of a judge, if they do get convicted they get to serve time, make friends and network with like minded people until they are let back out. Not much of a downside for them.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:22 AM
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I think some of us don't understand the question.

Pretty sure he's asking why family and friends are trying to convince us the scum was a good guy, not why people steal cars.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:32 AM
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You guys are silly. He was probably stealing the car because he was preparing for Greyhound to shut down.

Last edited by sns2; 07-14-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:33 AM
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Anyone caught dealing drugs should serve a mandatory 10 year prison term with zero chance of parole for first offense and life or even death sentence for second offense.

I've seen first hand how drugs destroy lives, I'm not talking about pot but drugs like coke, heroin and meth. Just a little over a week ago I had an old friend die from bad coke, most likely laced with fentanyl at 47. When he was in his early 20's the guy was so ambitious, journeyman ironworker, member of the union and had the world by the balls. Then came meth and went his world. So sad to watch him go from an inspiration to a pity. He lost everything, his wife and kids, his house, his friends, his job, his local 720 membership which he was so proud of, traded it all for meth and jail instead, until his final high before he even reached 50!

I can see how good people go bad, I've seen it, and if we want to stop it we have to eliminate the dealers.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:51 AM
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Default They are always a saint after they are dead.

I would say the ones that are praising him are probably not any better and helped him turn down the road of crime. These people are blinded by their ignorance.
By the sounds of the article he probably also had a warrent out for his arrest for not showing up to court so it’s very hard to believe this is his first rodeo.
I feel bad for the person he put in the hospital but glad he won’t be putting my families lives in harms way while shopping in town.
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:03 PM
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Today the CBC featured an article about the guy shot after ramming a police cruiser during a chase in North Battleford the picture they used shows the smiling young man holding his daughter. The CBC always likes to show the police as the bad guys.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:33 PM
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I don't think it's any different than the concept of "nostalgia goggles". When looking back on things, we always seem to perceive them to be better than they actually were, and focus more on remembering the good things and not the bad. Think about your first vehicle you ever had, and it'll probably be all good things you think about in regards to it, and not how it was probably a massive pile of junk.

Mix that with a yearning mother and sympathy and positive remembrance comes about.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:46 PM
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I love the part "but nine times out of ten, when he was breaking the rules, it was to help somebody"...I (and many here I'm sure) have helped people throughout our lives...never had to break the rules to do so.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:32 PM
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I hope I never trip into the 'bad' stuff.

I hope none of my friends trip into the ;bad; stuff.

I hope none of you trip into the ?bad? stuff.

Bad stuff is all around.

Know it, recognize it, control it if you can.

Most will experience the 'Bad'.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venison Assassin View Post
Theres often a lot of co-dependance or someone has been enabling the junkie rather than getting them into a program. Call me cynical but I think a lot of addicts are beyond hope. Some can be brought around to sobriety sure, but how many straighten out enough to really thrive?
Some of the finest people I know are recovered addicts and alcoholics.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
Some of the finest people I know are recovered addicts and alcoholics.
Yes, attend an AA or NA meeting (they do occasionally have open meetings)...people would be mighty surprised if the knew how many powerful people in business, sports and professional people were regulars at these meetings and are recovering alcoholics or addicts.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:07 PM
SlimChance SlimChance is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jstubbs View Post
I don't think it's any different than the concept of "nostalgia goggles". When looking back on things, we always seem to perceive them to be better than they actually were, and focus more on remembering the good things and not the bad. Think about your first vehicle you ever had, and it'll probably be all good things you think about in regards to it, and not how it was probably a massive pile of junk.

Mix that with a yearning mother and sympathy and positive remembrance comes about.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people are surprised that the guy's mother remembers him fondly. Like, if you went off the rails and did something horrible would you expect your mom to disown you to the media?

There's probably an element of cognitive dissonance too. How many of us have had friends that we defended for things we'd condemn strangers for? We have an image of the person in our heads and their bad behaviour contradicts it. We can't simultaneously believe they're a good person and that they do bad things.

To be clear, I'm not condoning what the guy did or trying to paint him in a sympathetic light, at all. I do understand why his mother would, though.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:25 AM
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My thoughts are, in every case like this, we deserve to hear the entire court record of the perp, no whitewashing.

Grizz
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:12 AM
Venison Assassin Venison Assassin is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
Some of the finest people I know are recovered addicts and alcoholics.
I did use the term ‘some’ but the ‘some’ I was referring to were the ones who turn to crime to support their habits. I think that there are way more alcoholics and drug addicts who manage to feed their habits without turning to crime than there are who commit break & enter and vehicle theft and such. It is the ones who create a wake of victims behind them to which I was referring. I’m sure there are stages too, where an addict might not steal from strangers but will steal without hesitation from their family or employer, somehow justifying it to themselves that they deserve it. Or ones that steal from businesses like WalMart as shoplifters, but would not do a residential B&E. Everyone’s morals are different. My original reference was about the junkies who have reached the stage where they are willing to run over police or the public in stolen vehicles in their futile quests to escape lawful capture. The junkies who break into homes and steal vehicles. I’m not sure if any of your friends were at such a stage but that’s the stage where my sympathy for their humanity wanes. I can sympathize for with the ones who mostly victimize themselves (and by extension their friends and family) so long as they don’t commit felonies. Felonies and where they endanger the lives of others are where I cease to care for their humanity and simply view them as vermin.

Of course there are the lighter stages of addiction, we’ve probably all known people who drank excessively and weren’t in control of their lives, or people who are incapable of going out for drinks without reaching the level of being a staggering buffoon.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:53 AM
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The reason we keep having these problems is the people we elect into government and the bureaucracies that have grown up, have their own agendas with respect to drugs and prisons. Both control multi-billion dollar budgets. The prison and police industry in the U.S. is its single biggest employer. The "War" on drugs is what keeps the prisons full and growing.

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According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,220,300 adults were incarcerated in US federal and state prisons, and county jails in 2013 – about 0.91% of adults (1 in 110) in the U.S. resident population.[2] Additionally, 4,751,400 adults in 2013 (1 in 51) were on probation or on parole.[2] In total, 6,899,000 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2013 – about 2.8% of adults (1 in 35) in the U.S. resident population.
Seventeen years after decriminalised all drug usage Portugal has clearly proved that is the RIGHT answer to help controlling them, but more importantly to help reduce the crime that goes with them. There is no way the U.S. is going to follow this successful lead, it would risk the employment of millions of Americans in one of its last growth industries.
Google Portugal and Drugs, there are a ton of articles that describe how it works in detail.

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin


You want to stop break ins, muggings and all the other crap that gets worse everyday, push your elected official to deal with the root cause, illegal drugs. And no that doesn't mean more enforcement.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venison Assassin View Post
I’m not sure if any of your friends were at such a stage but that’s the stage where my sympathy for their humanity wanes. I can sympathize for with the ones who mostly victimize themselves (and by extension their friends and family) so long as they don’t commit felonies. Felonies and where they endanger the lives of others are where I cease to care for their humanity and simply view them as vermin.
Some of those recovered addicts and alcoholics that I called fine people were the worst of the worst and often say that they arrived at a point so low that it was go up or die. Most of them do not use the term recovered as I originally used but say they are in recovery an their sobriety takes work and is a gift that they can not take for granted. Some of them say that they only arrived at sobriety because someone did not stop caring for them.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
Some of those recovered addicts and alcoholics that I called fine people were the worst of the worst and often say that they arrived at a point so low that it was go up or die. Most of them do not use the term recovered as I originally used but say they are in recovery an their sobriety takes work and is a gift that they can not take for granted. Some of them say that they only arrived at sobriety because someone did not stop caring for them.
I try to stay away from deeply troubled criminal individuals myself. I’ve seen it to many time where some nice individual offers a helping hand and gets taken advantage of even robbed by the same recovering person they were helping this includes their own children. I stay away from them for my own families good so we don’t get drug down while trying to lift them up. I’ve disassociate myself from a few people for this very reason.
If you think you can try to convince me that most recovering criminals and addicts are saints you are mistaken because I know better.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:05 PM
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Any objection to chain gangs??
Why not, rather than parking them in a cell on tax dollars, chain a bunch of them together to form a skirmish line and clean up our highways.

A few days of sweating in the sun would likely sober them up and perhaps they would rather go get a job when they get out.
I believe in rehabilitation, but just to park them in jail with a bunch of like minded fools, so they can make new contacts and such... is a joke! It's a drain on the economy and does no good for those incarcerated.
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
I try to stay away from deeply troubled criminal individuals myself. I’ve seen it to many time where some nice individual offers a helping hand and gets taken advantage of even robbed by the same recovering person they were helping this includes their own children. I stay away from them for my own families good so we don’t get drug down while trying to lift them up. I’ve disassociate myself from a few people for this very reason.
If you think you can try to convince me that most recovering criminals and addicts are saints you are mistaken because I know better.
Agree. Take the nicest person in thw world and get them hooke and they willl do the most despicable things to get another fix. Steal from and lie to family, abuse elderly parents and steal everything they have, use every friend they ever had, sell their bodies, whatever it takes to get that next fix.

Until their fix is assured or replaced there is NO chance of reaching them. You can't wean people off drugs till they have an assured supply or hit rock bottom or get them on a replacement drug.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
I try to stay away from deeply troubled criminal individuals myself. I’ve seen it to many time where some nice individual offers a helping hand and gets taken advantage of even robbed by the same recovering person they were helping this includes their own children. I stay away from them for my own families good so we don’t get drug down while trying to lift them up. I’ve disassociate myself from a few people for this very reason.
If you think you can try to convince me that most recovering criminals and addicts are saints you are mistaken because I know better.
I understand where you are coming from and you are not wrong. From personal experience I know that an addict or an alcoholic will take advantage of anyone and everyone in order to get his/her fix and that is just the way it is. There are many good people with good intentions that get burned and some get burned several times trying to help. For some addicts, but not all there comes a point when they realize that they need help. When or if that point comes the addict or alcoholic will probably not succeed if there is no help.

Someone on an earlier post mentioned meetings where addicts and or alcoholics attend. There you will see some who have been sober or decades and some for just a few days or in some cases only hours. Some speak or testify as to their sobriety and you may hear stories of many that tried many times before they were able to maintain their sobriety. Those who have maintained their sobriety will all say that their success was due to help from someone that would not give up on them.

I am not saying that we should all go out of our way to help a druggie or a drunk. That would only result in many getting burned if one does not know how to help. I am saying that there is help for those who want help and that is probably left for those that know what they are doing.

I am also saying and I repeat, I know many that have done what it takes to become decent human beings and with help have become very fine people.

I have no use for addicts or drunks but once they are no longer addicts and drunks I prefer to judge them for who they are and not what they were.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattthegorby View Post
I work with many addicts who are thriving after beating down their addictions! The strength of the human spirit is inspiring. That being said, some of the strongest proponents I have met on not enabling addicts has been recovered addicts themselves.
100% agree
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little red riding hood View Post
Any objection to chain gangs??
Why not, rather than parking them in a cell on tax dollars, chain a bunch of them together to form a skirmish line and clean up our highways.

A few days of sweating in the sun would likely sober them up and perhaps they would rather go get a job when they get out.
I believe in rehabilitation, but just to park them in jail with a bunch of like minded fools, so they can make new contacts and such... is a joke! It's a drain on the economy and does no good for those incarcerated.

I'm with you 100% on this. The jailbirds could be cleaning up ditches, building ATV bridges and out houses in the West Country, and countless other tasks that would help the rest of us and give them a sense of purpose. But our government, unions, and bleeding heart population would think of it as forced labour and never let it fly.

I was at a horseshow in Texas a few years ago where the prisoners were cleaning the grounds and shovelling out stalls.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBreed View Post
I hope I never trip into the 'bad' stuff.

I hope none of my friends trip into the ;bad; stuff.

I hope none of you trip into the ?bad? stuff.

Bad stuff is all around.

Know it, recognize it, control it if you can.

Most will experience the 'Bad'.
What???

So do the "bad stuff ". just recognize it and try to control it???

Wait what??

Startin to sound like PurgSV...

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