whats albertas trappers future

polar · #1 06-12-2012, 07:04 AM

Just a thought ,
-the issue of non trappers owning traplines,
- the lack of action on government,
- the purposely blatten act of government holding back available traplines
-the failled attemps of ata into an agrrement with government to have some controll with future regulation over itself
- more and more trappers getting educated and lic.
-traplines becoming more and more out of reach basically impossible to be obtained for the majority
-a general acceptence of price,and hardships of obtainin g a trapline
-what lines are there logged out oil activity environment at seige
- trappers seeing the problems but helpless to do anything

How long can the act go on untill the new recruitment of want to bes say that was a thing of the past, with a lic and no were to go

So with failled attemps with ata getting a doa, trying there best for the industry to be reconized with keeping standards, within the system they are acustomed and invested in, to keep trapping going on into the future should another aproach not be considered, a change or compermize of sorts between the free for all and reg line. It seem simple with the obvious the system in place currently does not work and hasnt for a while so if powers that be won t work to change thedirection wanted maybe a different direction needs to be taKen we all get in a rut but sooner or later its time to jump out, strattle them or get on a different road look what happened to the yukon association

sourdough doug · #2 06-12-2012, 07:48 AM

where abouts is your line?

steve · #3 06-12-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

where abouts is your line?

His is probably right beside mine Doug...

Would like to see something put in. For a RFMA holder to show proof of active trapping. This would ween out some of the non active lines, hopefully putting them in the hands of someone who would trap.

sourdough doug · #4 06-12-2012, 08:08 AM

There already is something in place. It is your fur count that you give every year when you renew your licence. And where is your line , other than being beside his ???

northerntrapper · #5 06-12-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

There already is something in place. It is your fur count that you give every year when you renew your licence. And where is your line , other than being beside his ???

That's right, Doug. As well, when the CRA decides to audit a trapper, guess how fast they obtain your fur harvest records from the fur houses. It is no secret nowadays how much is sold off any trapline.

polar · #6 06-12-2012, 08:21 AM

i d have to look at a map to find it, got it for a couple grand, isolated can only fly into it, but i thought i might as well have it, at least i can call my self a RFMA OWNER or trapper if you will. 5 yr renwal was no problem i went in, and out in less than 5 min good for another five.Cant afford to trap though those furs didnt pay much o i guess i might have to go buy a trap and find that line first. A i'll wait pay my renewals and pass it on to the kids, maybe they'll want to find it

someday!!

steve · #7 06-12-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

There already is something in place. It is your fur count that you give every year when you renew your licence. And where is your line , other than being beside his ???

What happens if your fur count is zero for 5 years? Because I know that is happening.

Dougy I dont have one.

Ive been trying for over 2 years to get into it. Young guy with 30k to spend, maybe a bit more. With whatever equipment I dont have to make the line work I will buy. Easily a few hundred bucks of long distance minutes spent trying to find a line under 50k or someone to junior me.

If I remeber right you PM'd me a couple times then abruptly stopped when you heard that I might get on as a junior, on Jacks, your neighboring RFMA.

Lots of guys are looking to trap lines that arent being trapped. Not looking for a handout either, but dont have 150k for one township with a small cabin.

So instead of disagree and hold it over our heads that you have a line. What do you think should be done? Does my effort to get into the industry seem like not enough? In the end, you got to pay to play I guess. I'm not spending 150k to make 2k. Im betting you didnt spend that kind of jack to play either.

steve · #8 06-12-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northerntrapper

That's right, Doug. As well, when the CRA decides to audit a trapper, guess how fast they obtain your fur harvest records from the fur houses. It is no secret nowadays how much is sold off any trapline.

When they audit a line and harvest is zero what happens?

northerntrapper · #9 06-12-2012, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polar

i d have to look at a map to find it, got it for a couple grand, isolated can only fly into it, but i thought i might as well have it, at least i can call my self a RFMA OWNER or trapper if you will. 5 yr renwal was no problem i went in, and out in less than 5 min good for another five.Cant afford to trap though those furs didnt pay much o i guess i might have to go buy a trap and find that line first. A i'll wait pay my renewals and pass it on to the kids, maybe they'll want to find it

someday!!

Great day to go fishing!

polar · #10 06-12-2012, 08:38 AM

Doesn t matter how easy it is to find out who is active or not, doesn t matter all the steps in place, some one has to care on the other end for it to matter anyway
but your missing the point this was not to be the typical you have i don t lets argue threads which everyone loves to do on here. Cant you see ata is doing a good job educating public, and courses for new trappers more trappers with no were to go, resident trapping is fine but as trappers there drive is going to take them to want to trap other species, get some numbers ect, as you see on this forum how many un educated trappers or persons there is looking for a line, how long does it go before getting all the new recruits discuraged of continuing and spreading trapping

jim summit · #11 06-12-2012, 08:47 AM

:

Let's say every one of the 1700 RFMA's was being properly used, there would still be people wanting one. Comes down to it, some one is just not going to ever have a RFMA, are you that person???

steve · #12 06-12-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim summit

:

Let's say every one of the 1700 RFMA's was being properly used, there would still be people wanting one. Comes down to it, some one is just not going to ever have a RFMA, are you that person???

You think there is 3400 people in AB that want to and would do real trapping?

molly · #13 06-12-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polar

i d have to look at a map to find it, got it for a couple grand, isolated can only fly into it, but i thought i might as well have it, at least i can call my self a RFMA OWNER or trapper if you will. 5 yr renwal was no problem i went in, and out in less than 5 min good for another five.Cant afford to trap though those furs didnt pay much o i guess i might have to go buy a trap and find that line first. A i'll wait pay my renewals and pass it on to the kids, maybe they'll want to find it

someday!!

So you bought a trapline and do not have any intention of trapping it? Just want to pay the fees and pass it down to your kids? Then why would you care about non-trappers owning traplines?!
Just curious.

polar · #14 06-12-2012, 09:47 AM

small minded to many of you must be stuck on a small trapline, who nsays we need traplines any more. Or cabins there are roads in most part of the povince that are less than a couple miles apart, holiday trailers that a king can live in. when hunting and to many hunters want a moose it goes on draw,m this is recreational hunting, if trapping is no longer a sustainable industry and is treated as recreatrional it should be available to all albertans why is fur so different than big game species recreatioan hunting for game or fur bearing becomes the same.There doesn t have to be traplines to manage fur i don t have a line were i get to shoot the 45 bull moose and no one else can. If it is to stay as an industry it has to reconize itself as such and regulate itself under controlable and acceptable rules. If as so many of you call it it should be recreational than it should be an opertunity for all albertan to participate in Draws quota what ever for management. Industry as a commodiatey needs to fill a target for managemnt and needs to harvest a minable to a max amount of fur , in industry when that needs to be obtain if you cant do it it finds somebody that can.

outdoorsmen101 · #15 06-12-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

where abouts is your line?

His line is attached to his reel

Doug, they must be one of the new ATA Directors.

357xp · #16 06-12-2012, 06:14 PM

Why r u bitin ur own butt polar??? I ve seen dogs do it, but trappers??? Get out there set up some traps and enjoy the great outdoors, if u don't want to do any trapping, why own it??? U say give it to the kids, well how they gonna know how to trap if u don't teach em? 90% of the learning is out in the field. As for roads runnin through the traplines every few miles...... Not nearly all of them, shucks I know some guys that spend a whole day just gettin to the cabin, and u say we don't need cabins???

Just ventin.....

braggadoe · #17 06-12-2012, 07:06 PM

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jim summit · #18 06-12-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braggadoe

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My vote for best reply, Lol.....

sourdough doug · #19 06-12-2012, 10:31 PM

After a lot of thought on this damn recurring topic - that being- "Why can I not have a line too", I am beginning to believe, I know who is to blame...And being as there are so many finger pointers around these days, I believe it is the ATA......and the Trapper Ed, as well as their newly printed manual...for not being more explicit in stating, that a TRAPPERS LICENCE DOES NOT INCLUDE A TRAPLINE. Now what part of NOT do you NOT UNDERSTAND. If you want to be in position to get on a line, you must be in an area where you can make yourself available, not only for 2 days , on a weekend. Managing a line requires a lot more time than most are able to allow and still feed the family. There are far to many weekend warriors out there, who figure if they squeal loud enough, rules and regulations will get them the line they so rightfully deserve. Regs. posted on every other tree on the line, appears to be the answer for these people. And if they screw it up enough there will be a mass exodus of trappers and therefore, their line on the outskirts of the bright lites will become a dream come true.... Sometimes I really get ****ed off and this might be one of those times.
And Steve, Yes it was me who talked with you regarding FRED's line. I don't recall if I turned you on to that line or what, but I just pointed you in the direction, after that it was not my business and it was up to you and him to cut a deal. He is one of a kind and maybe there was something that made him back off.. You know what happened, not me.......

Steve, are you saying, that, that was the asking price of the line over there..??

Rob Miskosky · #20 06-12-2012, 10:41 PM

I was one of those guys that was upset that lines were being held and not used. I searched for years to find a line without success, but after 14 years, yes, 14 years, I finally did. But it wasn't without a lot of frustration. I knew what I wanted to spend and that was what held me back. Right or wrong, that was what happened. But what I learned was that for every guy that wasn't trapping properly, many, many more were. Like most things, it only takes a few bad apples to spill the cart. But it is far from the norm. Look, if you want a line bad enough - and for the right reasons - you will eventually find one. It just takes a lot of work to find one. If you aren't prepared to put in the work to find one, perhaps you aren't prepared to put in the work to manage one. There is a lot more to operating a trapline than meets the eye.

sourdough doug · #21 06-12-2012, 11:23 PM

Rob, I recall that you looked for a line for a long time. It was prob 5-6 years ago that I tried to help you get a line along the Athabasca, that didn't pan out either. I know at the time that the holder of that linewas working way down south ---for the forestry (SRD). But I have looked at lines that didn't work out, only to appreciate that the line I ended up with, suited me better... I hope your new line works out that wasy too....

Rob, your last sentence, certainly hit the nail on the head. Maybe coming from a respected individual as yourself, some will take a step back and realize that there may be more to working a line.. Mind you, there will still be those who will say that if , at the end of a day clearing line, should I partake in a pint of ale --that I am using it for recreation purposes..I have 2 words for those ---

SUE ME....

steve · #22 06-13-2012, 12:29 AM

Doug, there was nothing more said by you then good luck. Which is appreciated. I missed being partnered on jacks line by minutes over the phone.

As I asked before. What happens when a fur report shows no harvest for 5 years straight?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

After a lot of thought on this damn recurring topic - that being- "Why can I not have a line too", I am beginning to believe, I know who is to blame...And being as there are so many finger pointers around these days, I believe it is the ATA......and the Trapper Ed, as well as their newly printed manual...for not being more explicit in stating, that a TRAPPERS LICENCE DOES NOT INCLUDE A TRAPLINE. Now what part of NOT do you NOT UNDERSTAND. If you want to be in position to get on a line, you must be in an area where you can make yourself available, not only for 2 days , on a weekend. Managing a line requires a lot more time than most are able to allow and still feed the family. There are far to many weekend warriors out there, who figure if they squeal loud enough, rules and regulations will get them the line they so rightfully deserve. Regs. posted on every other tree on the line, appears to be the answer for these people. And if they screw it up enough there will be a mass exodus of trappers and therefore, their line on the outskirts of the bright lites will become a dream come true.... Sometimes I really get ****ed off and this might be one of those times.
And Steve, Yes it was me who talked with you regarding FRED's line. I don't recall if I turned you on to that line or what, but I just pointed you in the direction, after that it was not my business and it was up to you and him to cut a deal. He is one of a kind and maybe there was something that made him back off.. You know what happened, not me.......

Steve, are you saying, that, that was the asking price of the line over there..??

Rob Miskosky · #23 06-13-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

Doug, there was nothing more said by you then good luck. Which is appreciated. I missed being partnered on jacks line by minutes over the phone.

As I asked before. What happens when a fur report shows no harvest for 5 years straight?

If a fur report shows no harvest for 5 years straight, then the line should be removed from that individual and put back into the hands of Fish and Wildlife, and then put in the hands of the most qualified individual. Having said that, there are instances where showing a fur harvest record would be nearly impossible, such as a forest fire, sickness etc. In those cases, those circumstances should be taken into consideration.

For those that believe running a trapline is all glory, read my latest column in AO (you can read it for free with the preview of the digital issue http://magazinescanada.zinio.com/bro...yId=cat1460029). It takes a lot of hard work and a lot of money to operate a line properly, and your financial return is minimal at best. In short order, those rose-coloured glasses come off and the business side of trapping presents itself. If you love trapping, then hey, keep trying and you will eventually get a line. If you love the idea of trapping, then maybe read my column, you may not realize everything involved.

sourdough doug · #24 06-13-2012, 01:18 PM

Yes Rob, I could say - I couldn't have said it better myself - however, I have, many times , right here, on this site. But still there are those who choose not to believe. That is why, it would be such a good thing if one could junior a line b4 jumping in and then finding out several years later that is was a bit much...every pair of rosy glasses should be hidden...

And, YES , there are extenuating circumstances that enter into a line having to produce every year. That is why, we have to be aware of all these rules and regulations that some desire, for there own self serving purpose.

It can not be all black and white.....

steve · #25 06-13-2012, 01:39 PM

Read that article awhile back Rob. Good read

As you said if a line shows no harvest for 5 years it should be removed from the individual. But it's not removed, that doesn't happen.

If a guy gets sick for a few years. No he shouldn't lose his line, but shouldn't his junior be able to show a harvest report?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

If a fur report shows no harvest for 5 years straight, then the line should be removed from that individual and put back into the hands of Fish and Wildlife, and then put in the hands of the most qualified individual. Having said that, there are instances where showing a fur harvest record would be nearly impossible, such as a forest fire, sickness etc. In those cases, those circumstances should be taken into consideration.

For those that believe running a trapline is all glory, read my latest column in AO (you can read it for free with the preview of the digital issue http://magazinescanada.zinio.com/bro...yId=cat1460029). It takes a lot of hard work and a lot of money to operate a line properly, and your financial return is minimal at best. In short order, those rose-coloured glasses come off and the business side of trapping presents itself. If you love trapping, then hey, keep trying and you will eventually get a line. If you love the idea of trapping, then maybe read my column, you may not realize everything involved.

Dark Wing · #26 06-13-2012, 04:08 PM

Are there any limits on how many lines a single person can own? I know of one person who has 3 or more lines and 2 are fairly remote.

jim summit · #27 06-13-2012, 04:39 PM

No limit, think of it just like a business. If you have the money, and can manage them, you can own as many business's as you want. Same rules apply, supply and demand, good years and bad, alot of hard work and risk.

TRAPPER92 · #28 06-13-2012, 06:22 PM

You know it would be interesting to read about the history of traplines in Alberta, the politics behind them and how the laws progressed through the years. I'm willing to wager that times have changed and the reasons that traplines were put into place is now obsolete.
Back in the fur trapping days of the Hudsons Bay Company and the Northwest Company there were no such things as traplines, trappers went out and got their fur either themselves or from the natives. Something must have happened to implement trapline policies.
If someone would point me into the right direction of finding out a detailed, un-biased history of the trapline in Alberta I'm sure it would be a good read.
Maybe we could read a future article in the AO on this subject....

mxz1997 · #29 06-15-2012, 09:35 AM

Now you trappers have got me all confused. First you say there's no money in it, then you tell me to think of it as a bussiness. Well if I'm looking at a bussiness and find out there's no money in it and I will have to work somewhere else to pay for my business, trust me I will be running the other way. So trapping cant be a business, its something you do because you enjoy it. So thats what I would call recreation. So if its recreational, it should be available for all Albertans, not just the ones with a lot of extra cash....Lets just have some draws, you get 25 tags for marten this year,in whichever wmu you apply.

Spud · #30 06-15-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxz1997

Now you trappers have got me all confused. First you say there's no money in it, then you tell me to think of it as a bussiness. Well if I'm looking at a bussiness and find out there's no money in it and I will have to work somewhere else to pay for my business, trust me I will be running the other way. So trapping cant be a business, its something you do because you enjoy it. So thats what I would call recreation. So if its recreational, it should be available for all Albertans, not just the ones with a lot of extra cash....Lets just have some draws, you get 25 tags for marten this year,in whichever wmu you apply.

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