Paid access a go ahead in WMU108

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm. That is a shame as I was really hoping you'd have some new and interesting information for all of us.

Duk. I have been able to have 2 or 3 good conversations with him over the past few years. One was about the Metis issue and another was about the whole mess from last year.
I am sure we will meet up again. But honestly I would love to get him to sit down have a few drinks and really find out where he is comming from.

Perhaps in the near future.. we shall see.

Jamie

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by gunsnreels

I wonder why there are no questions on the location of this "pilot program"?
2 WMUs both considerable distance from large metropolitans?
WMU 300 is BORDERED BY A NATIONAL PARK? as well as BORDERING the UNITED STATES!
WMU 108 also bordering the STATES!

Why???
That's what I ask?
What were the decisions behind, "THESE CHOICES" ???

From the original proposal

Minimum block size must be 20% of significant wildlife habitat of Wildlife Management Unit. HFH lands need not be contiguous.
Allocation to HFH unit for baseline:
If 20% of WMU then 15% of tag allocation
if 20-40% then 20% of tag allocation
If >40% of WMU then 25% of tag allocation

Far easier to implement in corporate ranch country. Especially when the ranches themselves have something in mind. Whatever that is?


Read the whole thread. We do not know what the details are. We do know what they want, unless you think that OS was just a red herring they threw out so that their real agenda of Habitat preservation and access for resident hunters had more appeal.

[johnguy243]

A certian minister, while addressing a group down in Southern AB, had mentioned that he did 80% of his hunting south of Highway 3 in WMU's 300 and 108 and that he hoped to ensure his ability to get access for remainder of his hunting career. If it walks like a duck.....

[BTK]

don't agree with the whole idea of paid hunting but if were going to pay for this(I'm assuming that were going to see our licence fee;s increase) I would like to see something in return from the landowners who participate, like fencing off areas on there property that would be better suited for wildlife that cattle pasture.

If a land owner is going to be paid to allow hunting on his property I think he should have to put X amount of money he earns from this back into some sort of habitat improvement.

I give plenty of money to special interest groups for the improvement of wildlife habitat and I see direct results all over the province, and I woulg give money to this (even though I dont hunt in this part of the province) if something like this was part of the agenda I may be more inclined to agree with the idea. But unfortunately this isnt the case, so I'm going to have to give it the BIG THUMBS DOWN!

[johnguy243]

The ulitmate greased palm. Paid well in advance IMHO.

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by johnguy243

A certian minister, while addressing a group down in Southern AB, had mentioned that he did 80% of his hunting south of Highway 3 in WMU's 300 and 108 and that he hoped to ensure his ability to get access for remainder of his hunting career. If it walks like a duck.....

It would have been better for him if the landowners held the tags.

Excellent news for all the the lazy folks who are above asking for permission. Now they can all just book a Tee-time.

How's saturday @ 8:15 sound? and for how many? 4, OK, just remember the refreshment cart doesn't come around til' 10.

Unbelievable, we as Canadians and as Albertans pride ourselves on being the best place in the world to live. We have(had) the best hunting policies in the world. Now we have to change to be more like the USA.

Well people, welcome to America Junior, formerly known as Alberta.

[big-river]

B.C. has paid hunting. Doesn't seem to be any issue there.
Average price charged, if at all, is $50.00.
Most landowners don't even worry about it.
Every state i ever went to that had paid hunting did alot better job of managing their wildlife, leaving some habitat behind.
Seems to me to work out okay.

[B-radshaw]

There go the widllife populations! Who cares about the widllife lets let as many on as we like because were making money at it. Mortons can take his plan shove it up his *****. Paid hunting what a joke. Never gunna get drawn for anything now. Why did mr morton choose these two areas. Well because thats wherehe hunts and wants the best apportunity for himself.

[372elk]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Where is all this access issue in southern AB? (other than the famed Macintyre and Deseret & Knight Ranches in 108)

How will it ($20/hunter) save habitat?
Who will monitor this "habitat" program?
Where will funding come from to run the "habitat" program?

What if these "hard nosed land owners" decide they want more money? Will they (SRD) continue to appease them? At what cost? To what end?

For petes sake the SRD is already short budget money, officers, biologists etc..

x2 those big ranches are the only reason there is an access issue in WMU 108. half the zone is these ranches. And if they are gonna participate in this then us average hunters should be allowed access onto these places. But this will never happen. The Macintyre does not allow any hunting period other than a few employees and the desert and knight ranch need to keep there big deer for chuck adams to come shoot one everyother year and the rest of the Americans they guide on there which you never really hear about. But thats another can of worms that I won't bring up. I guess time will tell.

Originally Posted by 372elk

x2 those big ranches are the only reason there is an access issue in WMU 108. half the zone is these ranches. And if they are gonna participate in this then us average hunters should be allowed access onto these places. But this will never happen. The Macintyre does not allow any hunting period other than a few employees and the desert and knight ranch need to keep there big deer for chuck adams to come shoot one everyother year and the rest of the Americans they guide on there which you never really hear about. But thats another can of worms that I won't bring up. I guess time will tell.

I don't believe the Mac ranch has anything to do with the access "problem". They just don't allow hunting.
The Deseret and Knight according to rumor are paid by americans. Some landowners only allow access to outfitters. ( I wonder why). So SRD (Morton) instead of hiring more enforcment officers or investigating these paid hunting practices is going to make it legal. Not only that, they are going to make it legal in the 2 zones that the minister does most of his hunting. Smell fishy?

[372elk]

Originally Posted by sniper_700ti_mckaylake_gu

I don't believe the Mac ranch has anything to do with the access "problem". They just don't allow hunting.
The Deseret and Knight according to rumor are paid by americans. Some landowners only allow access to outfitters. ( I wonder why). So SRD (Morton) instead of hiring more enforcment officers or investigating these paid hunting practices is going to make it legal. Not only that, they are going to make it legal in the 2 zones that the minister does most of his hunting. Smell fishy?

x2, fishy is right! no I know the Mac ranch has nothing to do with the access issue. I believe that the other big ranches should do the same they do. either let hunters in or shut it all off even too the american hunters. and yeah Mr. morton only hunts here on the private ranches so he has no idea what our wildlife populations are like outside these big ranches. and its no rumor they are paid by americans. but is funny cause these guys that run the deseret and knight ranches don't even own them.

[Rackmastr]

The Deseret allows hunting for elk.....I gotta say thats a heck of a good start at least...

And yes, there are issues with the deer/antelope hunting and the fact that the land is guided for Non-Resident hunters but no access for residents. Thats a whole argument in itself though.....

Big River, I'd be interested in seeing the details of the BC plan. I can't find any reference to it in the hunting regs or any plan laid out by the ministry of environment. Any info you could pass on would be appreciated.

[372elk]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

The Deseret allows hunting for elk.....I gotta say thats a heck of a good start at least...

And yes, there are issues with the deer/antelope hunting and the fact that the land is guided for Non-Resident hunters but no access for residents. Thats a whole argument in itself though.....

true i would agree thats a good start. But just too clear it up for me are the elk in WMU 108 only found on the ranches???I don't spend a lot of time down that way. there may be more else where in the zone that I am unaware of. but if its the case they are only on the ranches then of course we would hunt there. now granted the ranch could technically still shut off the elk hunting even though there is a draw and its the only place the elk are but they haven't so yes thats a great start. I wonder if the mule deer/antelope were only found on the ranches if they would allow the same hunting aswell.

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by 372elk

true i would agree thats a good start. But just too clear it up for me are the elk in WMU 108 only found on the ranches???I don't spend a lot of time down that way. there may be more else where in the zone that I am unaware of. but if its the case they are only on the ranches then of course we would hunt there. now granted the ranch could technically still shut off the elk hunting even though there is a draw and its the only place the elk are but they haven't so yes thats a great start. I wonder if the mule deer/antelope were only found on the ranches if they would allow the same hunting aswell.

I'll admit I don't know the area well either but After reading some of Ted Morton's pitches for OS, I was under the impression that there were not alot of elk in the WMU; which was why he proposed transplanting some of the Waterton Herd?

[Rackmastr]

There is a small herd in the zone......a transplant would definalty be interesting!!! Heck Waterton can spare a LOT of elk as well as Suffield could. The more elk scattered around the province the better!

[372elk]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

There is a small herd in the zone......a transplant would definalty be interesting!!! Heck Waterton can spare a LOT of elk as well as Suffield could. The more elk scattered around the province the better!

x2, i would rather have the elk be transplanted from somewhere else as the waterton herd is what keeps the elk populations in WMU 300 up and strong.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by 372elk

x2, i would rather have the elk be transplanted from somewhere else as the waterton herd is what keeps the elk populations in WMU 300 up and strong.

I was saying that the Waterton herd would be a prime example of a herd to be used for transplanting.

Between that herd and the Suffield herd there could be some very good transplants I would think....

[MikeSpike]

The root of a lot of these paid access problems is the illegal activities of outfitters. (Go ahead and scream innocennce - but I think thy doth protest too much)

Outfitting/Guiding= Money for hunting= Financial Incentives = Need to produce Trophys = Competiton for prime access/Need to restrict access to prime areas = Illegal Payment to Landowners = Establishment of the Concept that landowner granted access means $$$.

I am F##k'n sick and tired of being told I cannot have permission because it is all spoken for/granted already and upon asking a few more questions only to find out that it has been granted to a guided hunt/outfitter with American clients. Do you think I am naive enough to beleive that money has not passed hands. In one case the landowner's son even told me so as he did not know that it was illegal or wrong and presumed that it was their right to do so.

End Guided Hunts and Outfitting and the issue of paid access becomes minimal.

If $$$ for access continues to be a increasing problem then I plan to become a pain in the ass for the guiding/outfitters....I will have more time on my hands as I am not able to hunt as much as I would like. Outfitters/Guides-clean up your industry before it is ruined for all...you already have created a divide between yourself and resident hunters.

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

The more elk scattered around the province the better!

i know a bunch of ranchers who would disagree.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by lazy ike

i know a bunch of ranchers who would disagree.

So do I, but I also know a bunch of ranchers who would disagree that having a bunch of deer, antelope, bears, cougars, gophers, coyotes, etc is a good thing.

Seems to me that if all those ranchers have a huge issue with it, then that means they would be more than willing to allow access.

If we restricted animal transplants and herd management based only on what a few ranchers wanted I'm sure we would be making a big mistake for the future of wildlife in our province....