New KSA Barrel

[260 Rem]

No point in posting pictures ... they always seem to look the same. Anyways after getting back from Palm Springs and other commitments ... I was pleased to pick up my new barrel/rig from KSA and finally had a chance to get it out to the Range for a quick break-in this morning. The “different” feature that I went with on this Win 308 was that I had Karl (Pat) make a 4 groove instead of the more common 5 groove. I know of only two 30 cal barrels that he cut to 4 groove ...one for a buddy and mine...both are shooters. Mine is a hunting rig that comes in a little under 8.5 lbs scoped with early indications it will be a “half minute” shooter. So, 24” KSA 4 groove cut rifled barrel / KSA wolverine action w/lightweight KSA bottom metal that fits the HS Precision detach magazine / Timney trigger / KSA designed stock made by Wildcat Composites.

[rem338win]

I have yet to run one of their barrels but heard good things.

Their stock from Wildcat is excellent. Im finishing a blank for a friend right now and it's excellent. Great design for a heavier barreled hunter.

[260 Rem]

This is the KSA designed stock made be Wildcat Composites. I went “standard” weight with this one as I was looking to harness some recoil. Think this stock came in about 25 oz finished.

[Wrongside]

Originally Posted by rem338win

I have yet to run one of their barrels but heard good things.

We've been borescoping a pile of custom and factory barrels lately, both new blanks and used. The KS have remarkable bore finish, appearing to be smoother and more consistent than many "higher end" barrels. Impressive to look at, whatever it'll mean in real world performance...

[Pathfinder76]

Do they foul?

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by chuck

Do they foul?

I have mostly Kreiger to compare and reckon they are similar. I should add that I do not shoot real long strings before cleaning ... typically 30 - 50 rounds between cleanings

[Pathfinder76]

That’s the trouble with cut rifled stuff. They foul like crazy. Krieger included.

[dave99]

Sounds like a great rifle 260.

I have always been impressed with your custom builds, and especially with the care that you take to create a hunting rifle with benchrest accuracy.

I followed much of your advice with a Finnlight 7-08 that I was having troubles with last year and rebarreled with a KSA 6.5cm barrel cut to 24”.

I am now the proud owner of a (semi) custom that has shot a couple 0.5MOA 5 shot groups, and more importantly has taken a ram and two mule bucks, each with one shot.


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[Dean2]

You do nice work Jim. Good looking rifle.

[Zuludog]

Nice looking rifle.

[Nova316]

Which contour did you use for that build? I am figuring out if I want to go #4 or #5.

I have KSA barrels on my match rifles and hunting rifles and they all shoot well. Currently my 6dasher on the KS 3lug action is shooting .35moa at 300m. I don't have much issue with fouling on mine.

[leo]

I had Karl and Mike rebarrel a Sako 75 to 340 Weatherby Magnum. Shooting 210 TTSX bullets at 3150/3200 FPS shows very little fouling and the accuracy is outstanding.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Nova316

Which contour did you use for that build? I am figuring out if I want to go #4 or #5.

I have KSA barrels on my match rifles and hunting rifles and they all shoot well. Currently my 6dasher on the KS 3lug action is shooting .35moa at 300m. I don't have much issue with fouling on mine.

I went with about a #4 equivalent with MD of 0.65” on the 308.

[ThirtyCal]

Very nice rifle, looks just like something I would like to get built only I have enough 30cals, I was thinking a 6.5x47L one day from K.S.Arms

[TangoKilo]

Friend ended up with a KS tube on a 6.5 SAUM a few months back.
Outstanding quality and accuracy!!

Tell me more about this wildcat stock?
Similar to a MCM Gamewarden??
Do you buy the blank direct from Wildcat, or from KS?

[260 Rem]

Not familiar with the MCM so can’t compare. The stock was designed by KS ... and Wildcat made the mold. Don’t know if KSA actually sold any of the stocks through their shop. My understanding is that the KSA stocks are all made/sold by Wildcat so presume the two outfits have an arrangement. I like the stock design which features a flat bottomed forestock which makes it slide nice when shot off bags, and a somewhat vertical grip more common on “F”/TAC rigs. Best of both worlds but now a “sporter”.

[andy1]

Originally Posted by chuck

That’s the trouble with cut rifled stuff. They foul like crazy. Krieger included.

Lol....#1 benchrest barrels in the world . Laughable assessment.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by andy1

Lol....#1 benchrest barrels in the world . Laughable assessment.

The bench rest crowd clean obsessively. But when I have less fouling after 200 rounds in brand X than I do in 25 with my Kriegers there is a problem. And I’m far from the only one to have observed this. After drinking the cut rifled Kool Aid a bunch I’m a bonified button rifling fan for a rifle that will see a lot of rounds. They are much easier to maintain in my experience.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Not familiar with the MCM so can’t compare. The stock was designed by KS ... and Wildcat made the mold. Don’t know if KSA actually sold any of the stocks through their shop. My understanding is that the KSA stocks are all made/sold by Wildcat so presume the two outfits have an arrangement. I like the stock design which features a flat bottomed forestock which makes it slide nice when shot off bags, and a somewhat vertical grip more common on “F”/TAC rigs. Best of both worlds but now a “sporter”.

It’s a good looking option for sure.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

This is the KSA designed stock made be Wildcat Composites. I went “standard” weight with this one as I was looking to harness some recoil. Think this stock came in about 25 oz finished.

Very nice looking rifle and stock, well done.

JD

[DLab]

Originally Posted by andy1

Lol....#1 benchrest barrels in the world . Laughable assessment.

Not sure why you make this statement,perhaps you could clarify.
At the 2019 World BR at Rosebud last year, all but 3 in the top 20 finishers in LV Grand were shooting cut rifled,all the top 20 HV Grand did also,Bartlein ,Kreiger.
They also dominate the Berger Southwest Nationals,now that's not BR,but still.
Bartlein is also a top barrel in PRS in the US.
Just to name a few.

Anyway,nice looking hunting rig 260.

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by DLab

Not sure why you make this statement,perhaps you could clarify.
At the 2019 World BR at Rosebud last year, all but 3 in the top 20 finishers in LV Grand were shooting cut rifled,all the top 20 HV Grand did also,Bartlein ,Kreiger.
They also dominate the Berger Southwest Nationals,now that's not BR,but still.
Bartlein is also a top barrel in PRS in the US.
Just to name a few.

Anyway,nice looking hunting rig 260.

He was stating that cut rifled barrels are #1. The LOL and laughable assessment portion were in disagreement with the post he was responding to.

[ThirtyCal]

Do you happen to know the barrel contour # of this barrel 260rem?

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by ThirtyCal

Do you happen to know the barrel contour # of this barrel 260rem?

Which barrel? Contour designations are not standardized but rather assigned by each individual barrel maker. Because I have mostly Kreiger barrels, I tend to use their designations. KSA will custom contour to your specs.
When I had Wildcat make the two stocks I purchased, I dropped off the largest contour barrel I planned to use to be sure it would have free-float clearance...which insured all the (switch) barrels of lesser contour would also be fine.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

He was stating that cut rifled barrels are #1. The LOL and laughable assessment portion were in disagreement with the post he was responding to.

Big Lou, I just cleaned three of my rifles yesterday. One is a factory Tikka 223. The other has a buttoned Benchmark barrel on it. Both have over 200 rounds through them since last cleaning. Both had minimal powder fouling and both had undetectable copper fouling. I’ve NEVER met a cut rifled barrel that would do that ever. I have a late friend who’s last custom rifle, carrying a Krieger barrel, was a drill. Until it started opening considerably after 20-25 rounds. Brutal.

Like I said, if I was wearing out brushes cleaning barrels every 20 rounds, fine. But I prefer shooting to cleaning. I’ve owned many, many cut rifled barrels. I avoid them anymore.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by chuck

Big Lou, I just cleaned three of my rifles yesterday. One is a factory Tikka 223. The other has a buttoned Benchmark barrel on it. Both have over 200 rounds through them since last cleaning. Both had minimal powder fouling and both had undetectable copper fouling. I’ve NEVER met a cut rifled barrel that would do that ever. I have a late friend who’s last custom rifle, carrying a Krieger barrel, was a drill. Until it started opening considerably after 20-25 rounds. Brutal.

Like I said, if I was wearing out brushes cleaning barrels every 20 rounds, fine. But I prefer shooting to cleaning. I’ve owned many, many cut rifled barrels. I avoid them anymore.

My Tikka (hammer forged) does not foul nearly as bad as my Savage (buttoned). Maybe the Savage is an outlier, but looking down the barrels with a bore scope, the Savage has a lot of machining marks, the Savage is very smooth. The Savage needs to be cleaned after 20 rounds.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by chuck

Big Lou, I just cleaned three of my rifles yesterday. One is a factory Tikka 223. The other has a buttoned Benchmark barrel on it. Both have over 200 rounds through them since last cleaning. Both had minimal powder fouling and both had undetectable copper fouling. I’ve NEVER met a cut rifled barrel that would do that ever. I have a late friend who’s last custom rifle, carrying a Krieger barrel, was a drill. Until it started opening considerably after 20-25 rounds. Brutal.

Like I said, if I was wearing out brushes cleaning barrels every 20 rounds, fine. But I prefer shooting to cleaning. I’ve owned many, many cut rifled barrels. I avoid them anymore.

I have too agree.
I have several button rifled barrels as well as cut riflled barrels, and have always been impressed with the way the button rifled barrels resisted fouling, most have been either McGowan or Douglas.
My last McGowan is in 6.5 Creedmoor and the number of rounds Iput through it before I cleaned it with Wipeout was simply unheard of for a cut rifled barrel , of which I also own severl.

The latest cut rifled barrel I have is an RKS ( I think this is my ninth ), it is also shooting very clean as far as copper deposits go, but I have not shot more than 50 rounds through it before cleaning it with Wipeout.
Cat

[260 Rem]

Fact is for most shooters, fouling is not an issue. It is an issue for top notch competition shooters and a look at equipment lists at the (BR) National/International level makes clear the preference for cut rifled barrels, the lions share among the top 20 finishers often going to Kreiger/Bartlein. Any difference in preference does not change the facts.
My personal preference for cut rifled barrels is based on my belief that ... given that cut rifling induces no/little stress into the steel (as opposed to significant with the button), there is less tendency for shots to wander as the barrel heats should any residual stress be present. Yes, most aftermarket barrel makers are using stress relieved steel but it appears that all stress relieving may not be equal. That is not to say that some buttoned barrels (like Benchmark) are not good repeat shot performers. Incidentally, Benchmark is now also making cut rifled barrels. It will be interesting to see if they start creeping onto the aforementioned equipment lists.

[Pathfinder76]

Fact is, most people would benefit far greater from barrels that don’t foul than barrel that might wander.

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by chuck

Big Lou, I just cleaned three of my rifles yesterday. One is a factory Tikka 223. The other has a buttoned Benchmark barrel on it. Both have over 200 rounds through them since last cleaning. Both had minimal powder fouling and both had undetectable copper fouling. I’ve NEVER met a cut rifled barrel that would do that ever. I have a late friend who’s last custom rifle, carrying a Krieger barrel, was a drill. Until it started opening considerably after 20-25 rounds. Brutal.

Like I said, if I was wearing out brushes cleaning barrels every 20 rounds, fine. But I prefer shooting to cleaning. I’ve owned many, many cut rifled barrels. I avoid them anymore.

I wouldn’t argue it at all as I wasn’t arguing. My Benchmark cleans up easy peasy. I’d describe my Kriegers the same. I’m over 300 rounds on my on Krieger in 6.5x47L and it’s still clipping along just fine. I’ve been fortunate enough that I have not experienced what you’re describing as that is indeed brutal.

Perhaps I should have said “he believes” in my attempt at clarification in the post you responded to. I don’t have enough scratch in the game to really care what someone likes or doesn’t. Both have worked and cleaned just fine for me and I’d run either or with no qualms. Maybe my turn is coming. Who knows.