 |
|
03-23-2017, 03:59 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
|
|
Think the laws in Alberta/Canada are tough?
Right or wrong, this is a big fight, I can see $$$$ being spent.
(from another forum I am on)
First I would like to say what I'm going to share with all of you may be met with mixed responses. I am willing to deal with that.
I am a soon to be 59 yo white male. I live in Illinois in a small town, 12K population. Started a business in 1980 (small mfg. co.) w my father (passed 8 yrs ago at 85). Its been good and its been hard for those of you who know. Avid golfer, business owner, dedicated to my employees well thought of in my community.
I purchased my 1976 Stingray in early 2013. Went to Tennessee w trailer in tow, made a deal, brought it home and began the journey of restoration as many of us have done. The car is much more now that it was then and I truly love it.
After work two weeks ago while driving my vet I met w my girlfriend at a local pub for a beer around 5:50pm. We watched the news had good conversation about our day, ran into some friends, etc.
Three beers later, 7:45, I leave to go check security at the plant and then home. The plant is a 4 min drive in town from where I was. Three blocks down the road someone's on my rear bumper blinding me w their headlights. I stopped at a sign, signal on and proceeded.
Two blocks down the street the cherries come on. Oh boy, I'm thinking, What did I do wrong? I immediately pull over, pull out my license, grab my registration and insurance card and roll my window down. The drill begins there, some of you know some may not.
I get handcuffed hauled of to the station for processing (2-1/2hrs), my car gets towed to a local service station and I'm ticketed for 1) Use of an Illegal lighting system, 2) Improper lane usage. 3) DUI. I'll cut the story there for now and get to my crisis.
Illinois has a law called Article 36. Seizure and forfeiture of personal property (google it to read more). The next day at noon while in my office one of the arresting officers shows up with a garbage bag and piece of paper. He says the bag contains my personal effects from inside my car and he serves me the paper which is a warrant signed by a judge that morning for the Seizure and Forfeiture of my car.
I had no Idea the authorities could do this till I studied up on Article 36. This law was originally designed for charges such as Drug trafficking, Murder, Rape, Child Pornography, etc. From what I've read the lawmakers in Springfield (our state capital) of our terribly broken state of Illinois have realized this law provides a potentially huge revenue stream (hundreds of millions to date). The list of offenses grows every year and the severity of the offenses are becoming less and less. Many groups are fighting to have this law receded calling it Unconstitutional as well as many other things
I want to make a plea to anyone who may have been in a similar position in Illinois and if they were able to retrieve their car and how it was done. PM me if you prefer to remain anonymous to the forum. I respect that.
Sorry for the long post.
|
03-23-2017, 04:19 PM
|
 |
AO Sponsor
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Airdrie, AB and Part Time BC
Posts: 3,004
|
|
I think Ontario has a similar thing for dangerous driving etc. I may be wrong but I remember they were doing roadside vehicle seizures or the like (not impounding) and crushing.
Personally I think it is complete BS. Until due process and a conviction in a court of law has been attained, nobody should have the right to take and destroy your property.
|
03-23-2017, 04:24 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 908
|
|
Some will laugh and call this an urban legend, what have you. This is a huge issue across many States. I have been repeatedly told from family down there that you should never carry large amounts of cash on you. You get pulled over for speeding they will claim that it is the profits from drugs, etc and seize it. You have to prove in court that it isn't. It is getting bad. There have been numerous cases trying to get it declared unconstitutional but they never really get anywhere as appeal courts don't want to hear them.
|
03-23-2017, 04:36 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 466
|
|
It is civil forfeiture and it is already in Alberta.
It basically flips the burden of proof to the individual, which requires he or she proves his/her innocence instead of the accusing party proving their guilt. It is a gross violation of both the US and Canadian Constitution.
It has a lower burden of proof for a judge to allow it, relying of a "balance of probabilities" instead of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Gov't initially claimed it was to fight crime; in the US it quickly turned in to a cash grab that literally amounts to highway robbery. The 'law enforcement agents' that partake in this activity are, in my opinion, de facto highwaymen.
It is one of the biggest threats to our legal system and society in our present age, and almost nobody knows of or cares about it.
Here's an old article from the Edmonton Journal about it: http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ll-budget-gaps
__________________
pop pop POP
|
03-23-2017, 04:44 PM
|
 |
Gone Hunting
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
|
|
I saw a PSA on Tv for Sask distracted drivers. course I was sort of listening, but I believe if you are caught looking at your phone, you are subject to a 280 dollar fine and vehicle impoundment.
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently. 
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
|
03-23-2017, 04:46 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,240
|
|
It happens right here in good old Alberta. It's the newest way for the government to rob you, and you get to spend money on legal representation to prove your innocence. Nice system.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/prov...gets-1.3599363
The bureaucrats in charge of it prefer the term "civil forfeiture," but the reality is crude and effective: Seize people's property or money, declare that it's probably the proceeds or instrument of illegal activity, and force the targets to hire lawyers and prove their innocence in court even though they often don't face any criminal charge.
And the incentive is there for the police in many jurisdictions to use civil forfeiture because they get to keep their cut of the action. Pure evil.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
Last edited by Twisted Canuck; 03-23-2017 at 04:51 PM.
|
03-23-2017, 05:14 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,556
|
|
Some just wont get it until there is a boot placed firmly in their lower back pinning them to the ground.
|
03-23-2017, 05:18 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 243
|
|
But....we are the most free society in the world.
|
03-23-2017, 05:58 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
|
|
I've seen this here in Canada too. At the root of the problem is folks (like us sometime) that want the hammer of the law to come down so hard on "bad guys", (or people who blow .05 for example) that they are all in favour of the STATE being able to take extra-judicial action. No more innocent until proven guilty. It's now "innocent until accused of being guilty by police". NO citizen should los their freedom or property unless a trial has been held and a judge says so.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate
In this case Oki has cut to to the exact heart of the matter!
|
|
03-23-2017, 06:10 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
|
|
While in general I do not have a problem with law enforcement, it is not a suprise that many despise them.
|
03-23-2017, 06:18 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 4
|
|
driving a car is a privilege not a right. you break the rules which are there to protect us, you deserve to pay the price.
this is no different than people flying drones where they shouldn't be or breaking the hunting rules or driving a quad where it's forbidden.
|
03-23-2017, 06:23 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
driving a car is a privilege not a right. you break the rules which are there to protect us, you deserve to pay the price.
this is no different than people flying drones where they shouldn't be or breaking the hunting rules or driving a quad where it's forbidden.
|
You bet! And we could save a lot of money by just getting rid of the court system. If the local constable thinks you're a bad guy, he SHOULD be able to just take your car and sell it. Heck, maybe your house. Those WR property rights types are Sooooo yesterday. 
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate
In this case Oki has cut to to the exact heart of the matter!
|
|
03-23-2017, 06:32 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 273
|
|
Is this story at least on Facebook to confirm?
__________________
“Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
"Toe da so" - Ricky, Trailer Park Boys
|
03-23-2017, 06:36 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddin
Is this story at least on Facebook to confirm?
|
It is a copy from him, not his uncles sisters cousins friend.
The only other side of the story is from the Illinois State police.
|
03-23-2017, 06:39 PM
|
|
Gone Hunting
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
|
|
If you don't break the law, you got nothing to worry about. 
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
|
03-23-2017, 06:43 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 4
|
|
okotokian, i would not be opposed to getting rid of the courts. 1 man can decide my fate just as well as 20, and a lot more efficiently. only thing is police would have a lot more responsibility so they'd need even better training and background checks when hiring.
keep in mind, that even owning property is a privilege. wait for the creator to judge you.
|
03-23-2017, 06:45 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,208
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
Driving a car is a privilege not a right. you break the rules which are there to protect us, you deserve to pay the price..
|
Correct... But OWNING a car is a right. The Gov't shouldn't be able to take " things you own" away.
(unless they can prove it was used to commit a Federal offence, or they can "prove" it was bought with P-of-C)
You don't "own" the priviledge to drive on public roads. They're allowed to take that away.
|
03-23-2017, 07:14 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 2,045
|
|
Until people have property rights, the people are slaves, there is no freedom. Really hard concept to grasp in the "free" world.
__________________
"Unthinking respect for Authority is the greatest enemy of truth"
Albert Einstein
|
03-23-2017, 07:21 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,449
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
okotokian, i would not be opposed to getting rid of the courts. 1 man can decide my fate just as well as 20, and a lot more efficiently. only thing is police would have a lot more responsibility so they'd need even better training and background checks when hiring.
keep in mind, that even owning property is a privilege. wait for the creator to judge you.
|
|
03-23-2017, 07:48 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,924
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
keep in mind, that even owning property is a privilege. wait for the creator to judge you.
|
You don't own your property. You rent it, you pay yearly in the form of taxes, if you do not pay them they take it from you.
|
03-23-2017, 07:56 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 226
Posts: 2,198
|
|
Canada and the US are becoming more like 1600 AD England all over again. Soon they will pass a law allowing police officers to not only seize and confiscate property but to have marital rights with a mans wife if he is caught speeding. Maybe Gronkowski will be the modern day William Wallace. He already has an energy drink after all. The world just goes around and around.
__________________
As a man thinketh in his heart so he is
|
03-23-2017, 08:02 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat
You don't own your property. You rent it, you pay yearly in the form of taxes, if you do not pay them they take it from you.
|
Oh you have no idea how mad I was when I found that out, I was quite young and had just bought my first land.
And believe it or not, there are still so many people that have the idea that it will only be taken 'out of their cold dead hands', they are sadly and unfortunately horribly mistaken, don't pay taxes for 2 years, away it goes.
We simply pay a great deal of money from the last renter for the privilege of renting it from the Government for a period of time.
I wonder if you can really own land anywhere on the planet?
|
03-23-2017, 08:40 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 4
|
|
there are no rights only the privileges that the government gives us and they're all limited and they can all be taken away very easily. we are all slaves. stop paying taxes or following the rules and you will find out just how "free" you are.
religion can rescue you from your misery on earth and give you something higher to look forward to.
|
03-23-2017, 09:12 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,449
|
|
[QUOTE=hisdisciple;3501146]there are no rights only the privileges that the government gives us and they're all limited and they can all be taken away very easily. we are all slaves. stop paying taxes or following the rules and you will find out just how "free" you are.
religion can rescue you from your misery on earth and give you something higher to look forward to/QUOTE]
How so? My property tax is due soon.
|
03-23-2017, 09:18 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,082
|
|
|
03-23-2017, 09:44 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
|
|
Is anyone surprised to see them take traffic tickets up a notch? Natural progression that's been happening for years.
Heck, I seem to recall lot's of people on here cheering on the confiscation of money from people for not obeying traffic laws.
Careful what you wish for etc. etc etc. 
|
03-23-2017, 09:45 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,240
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
religion can rescue you from your misery on earth and give you something higher to look forward to.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
stop worrying about your measly property on earth and follow the example of one of the great leaders: buddha, jesus muhammad. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdisciple
keep in mind, that even owning property is a privilege. wait for the creator to judge you.
|
Give it a rest already. Six posts in and you keep beating the same drum. Save it for knocking on stranger's doors maybe. And read the forum rules.
- Any topics/posts or discussion that includes race, ethnic groups or Religion are NOT acceptable and can result in a loss of message board privileges not excluding permanently. This is NOT the forum for such discussions.
Every post you have made you work religion in. Not all of us believe as you do, and don't need your harping posts. Thanks. TC
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:11 AM.
|
Linear Mode
