Ammunition for my .308

[FearNoFish]

Hey Guys
My Grandfather has hunted moose for the last 20 years with his .308 and loves his rifle. But I feel like it just doesn't have as much stopping power as a moose gun should. He always seems to get his moose but I'm definitely tired of tracking them through the bush. Can anybody suggest a brand or bullet style that will make the .308 a better mmose gun?

Thanks for the help guys

Brandon

If it shoots them well...I'm a huge fan of Federal Premium ammo with 165-grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullets. I've pulled several out of dead moose and all performed very well. Federal Premium is the best all-round factory load there is IMHO....providing your rifles shoots them well of course.

[Supermag]

As long as it's not an auto, the Hornady Light Magnum loads with the Interbonds will give you a flatter trajectory and bit more oomph. They DO pack a bit more of a kick in my .30-06, but I like them. I use the 165 gr for everything.

[Arctic800]

I use Winchester CXP3 180Gr. Silvertips and have had great luck with these on Moose and Elk. They do have the stopping power with a properly placed shot just like anything else.

Ah, the perverbial young up start, thinking he needs the latest and the hottest.
Your grandfather likely had resounding success with his 308 with old fashioned cup/core bullets for one reason only.
He shot it very well.
All the wonder bullets or hopped up loadings do you no good if you cant put the bullet where it counts.
Practice, Practice, Practice.
And use ammo that shoots well in your rifle.
Have a good day.

[catnthehat]

I've handloaded the 308 now for over 20 years , and load it about 15 other people as well.

The majority of the hunters I load for don't have a particular brand of bullet or powder , they just want "a good bullet".

I load the 165 Seirra Game King hollow point and the spire point for almost all of them.
Most of these guys aren't into ballistics, and have never even looked at a load book.

They only time a moose had to be tracked anywhere it was because of the shot placement, NOT the bullet.

A pretty stiff charge of varget, good brass, and a Game King tailored to the rifle it is being fired from will drop anything from antelope to moose with everything in between.

One guy has taken 15 animals with 16 bullets.
None of the animals went more than 30 feeet.
Ranges were from 40 to 200 yards.
Rifles range from M98 Mausers to Savage 99's.

I'm stating all this BEFORE I get flamed with the "You need a Barrnes , Seirras are no good" posts.
"Antlers on the ground and hooves in the air" are what I am looking for, not what a bullet looks like after it kills something, or whether or not is goes through, stays in the critter, etc.
ACCURACY is number one, killing is number two.
If you can't hit the critter properly, it doesn't matter what happens after.

Even though I don't hunt with a 308, I have hunted with many cartridges that are close to it and with the reports from the field I can make the recomendation for the Seirra Game King.
It is accurrate enough that I have used it in my match rifles .
Cat

[Dick284]

Gee, everyone says shoot well and stuff dies.
Interesting.

[catnthehat]

Dick, you and I both know people who have killed critters with a particular cartridge , and switched because it "didn't preform like it should"!
Let's see the guy shoots the animal, the critter dies, but the bullet lost too much of its weight?
Cat

[Dick284]

Preaching to the choir there brutha.

I seriously doubt that moose morphed themselves into a much tougher critter than when the young fellers pappy shot em.
So why all the "it's not powerfull enough" retoric?
God forbid if you killed one with that silly stick and string configuration you showed me in Drayton.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Preaching to the choir there brutha.

I seriously doubt that moose morphed themselves into a much tougher critter than when the young fellers pappy shot em.
So why all the "it's not powerfull enough" retoric?
God forbid if you killed one with that silly stick and string configuration you showed me in Drayton.

I haven't killed a moose with a stick bow, but know a SLEW of archers that have!!
maybe I'll get lucky enough this fall to gget a chance to stick a chunk of cedar into an elk this fall.....
Cat

I think one of the most critical things to consider with factory ammo is consistency...are the velocities consistent? To that end, I think the premium-type shells are worth the extra $$$. I've run a lot of factory loads over the chrony lately and some are definitely more consistent than others. If you want to hit the same spot each time, at the very least the bullet has to be travelling the same speed each time. I think the premium-type shells also offer a better selection of bullets and are again worth the extra that you pay for them.

[Gunner22a]

I'm an .06 man myself but my principle hunting buddy shoots a 308. With great success he has used both Federal and Remington premium ammo in 165 grain. Personally remington Boatail Accu Tips are my round of choice in 165 gr. The Hornady Lt Mags give a bit more poke, cost about the same and as Dave C says work well... just don't use them in an auto loader!

[Cappy]

I've had great success with 165gr Partitions and standard Hornady interlocks in both 165 and 180gr. I'm using 165gr Speers now as they are shooting very well in my rifle. I have a good buddy how swears by and only uses Hornady 180gr SST's. Not a bullet I would have chosen first off, but having seen the 1/2 dozen or so moose get dropped and the mature bison he has dropped with it I guess you can call me a believer. It must be the mild velocity he is getting that is allowing the bullet to stay intact and penetrate reliably into the vitals. He is a very good shot as well and has yet to make a bad hit.

[Dick284]

Big thing you got to remember with rifles and all firearms, is what works in his might not work in yours.
Take a cross section of the suggestions listed here, and hit the range with a box of each.
Take your time, use a good rest, keep things cool, and choose the one that shoots best in your rifle.
There is no pat answer as to what will work in your rifle, you are the one that has to spend the time and find that out.

Good advice Dick...it's funny how some bullets seem so rifle specific and others will quite literally shoot out of anything you put them in. I've been playing lots with factory ammo lately for a project I'm working on and it's not all created equal. The other interesting thing it that some ammo is totally interchangeable between manufactuers......and others of the same bullet weight have a completely different point of impact yet throw equally tight groups. Makes you wonder how Brand A shoots a .8 group in one spot and Brand B shoots the same .8 group several inches to the right.

[Dick284]

Simple TJ.
No two rifle can be built identically.
Reamers wear, head space can be diffrent, crowns can be slightly diffrent, barrel metal can have slight voids or inconsistancies. Too many varibles to have any absolutes.

Time spent working up loads or evaluating what your rifle prefers is too important, yet is often over looked in our micro wave, and cell phone era.

The best advice to anyone in a similar situation, is to quite seeking the quick fix. The only way to tell for sure is put in the time and effort.

Simple TJ.
No two rifle can be built identically.
Reamers wear, head space can be diffrent, crowns can be slightly diffrent, barrel metal can have slight voids or inconsistancies. Too many varibles to have any absolutes.

Ya I get the physics but it still amazes me that two types of ammo shot from the same rifle subjected to the indentical variables that you outlined can be sub MOA shooters yet several inches apart. I understand how two different rifles shoot the same ammo differently but I'm talking about the same rifle shooting two types of ammo. Obviously the bullet design is the variable here and the way it interacts with the barrel but it still amazes me.

[Dick284]

Yup guilding metal diffrences, and bearing surface do effect barrel harmonics, as will types of primers, and powders. Another variable is the amount of run up a particular bullet will get for a given a chamber, diffrent ogives will have slightly diffrent jumps to the lands, thus setting the whole barrel harmonics off on a totally diffrent start.
Again if it is'nt exactly the same one can expect something to behave diffrently.
Then there are those forgiving rifles that dont care what you feed them, I have no idea why they crop up, but if you have one consider it a gift, cause there are many that certainly are not that way.

I would say ogive is likely the main cause although the weird thing is that you can see the same thing in a muzzleloader using the same primer, powder and sabot....just a different style bullet in the sabot. Explain that one as the bullet never contacts the lands????? They are fickle creatures....worse than women sometimes

[Dick284]

Bearing surface I'd suspect, even though they are in a sabot, the hard sides of the bullet contacting the sides of the sabot does vary. Possibly the way the bullet point cleves the air going down the barrel may create a slightly diffrent shock wave or air cushion, resulting in diffrent barrel harmonics.
I'm no scientist by any means just a guy who shoots lots and has read a chapter or two.
What I do know is if you want ultimate accuracy it usually involves very uniform and precisely assembled components. Amungst other things.

[Bushrat]

[QUOTE=sheephunter;48963]I would say ogive is likely the main cause although the weird thing is that you can see the same thing in a muzzleloader using the same primer, powder and sabot....just a different style bullet in the sabot. Explain that one as the bullet never contacts the lands????? QUOTE]

Shift in the point of impact is primarily a function of barrel vibration or harmonics. Each different load will set up a cycle of vibration in the barrel as it ignites, pressurizes, and travels down the barrel. The vibration causes the muzzel to vibrate or oscillate. A good consistent load in that rifle, handloaded or factoryloaded, dosent matter as long as that load sets up the same vibration pattern every shot and allows the bullet to exit the barrel at the same place in its vibrational travel or node. Change something in that load and it can affect the way the barrel shakes and the barrel will throw that load to a different point of impact as the slug is obviously leaving the barrel at a different point of the muzzels oscillation. Thats why rifles can be load specific and what works in one, won't in another. handloaders have the advantage as they can tinker and tune a load that works for their particular rifle.

[Bushrat]

Heres a link from varmit Als site, might help show about barrel harmonics.

http://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm

[Supermag]

I have to say, I'm a bit embarassed to just jump out there with the "new fancy load" trick without mentioning shot placement. That's one of the things I like about the Hornady Light Mags. Zero's at 200 yards, I think they only drop just over 6" at 300. That's flat for a 165gr .30-06, which to me makes it easier to put it in the boiler room. The Interbonds hold together great (not that a fragmented bullet doesn't kill things too) and almost always punch right through. I've seen SST's that hit (at fairly close range) and break apart enough to resemble 2 seperate shots. It pretty much busted in half on the front shoulder. Half went through the shoulder, the other half kind of bounced it's way back through the hindquarter. My buddy took a quartering toward shot and destroyed a pile of meat. The deer was DEAD, but the damage was odd.

I used to buy the PMC Eldorados for my .308 BAR. They were cheap at Milarm (for a premium bullet) and worked great. They were loaded with Barnes X bullets. Instead of doing what any intelligent bargain-lover would do (buy them all!!) I just bought a box or two as I needed them. All was fine, until the well went dry.

Buy a decent round that you are confident in. It's a real mental boost when you can pile 2 rounds in the same hole, and then out the third one a 1/2 inch away with a good factory load. (not saying this is what I can do ) Then when you squeeze on that big buck, you already know that it's going to be laying on it's side in a few minutes

Cool link Bushrat...ty

[catnthehat]

I don't think I have ever handloaded a certqwain type of bullet that I coulsd not get decent accuracy ( 1.5MOA) for hunting.

factory stuff however can be very different , yes.
My unlimted class sillouette rifle would not shoot the hornady ligght magnums better than 1.5MOA, but they awere pretty fast!
Cat

[TangoKilo]

FNF.

I can't say that I have extensive experiance shooting moose. I have killed 2 and neither required any tracking.

Moose #1 was a cow killed 4 or 5 years ago. I hit her behind the shoulder with a 140gr Nosler partition from my 7 X 57 at a distance of about 80 m. She stood there for about 15 seconds, then got the jello legs and fell over. Done and done.

Moose #2 was a small bull killed last year. I hit him twice. The first was behind the shoulder about a third of the way up.The second shot was about an inch and a half to the left of the first one. The distance was 60m; the cartridge a 165gr Accubond from my .308, Mr. Moose did not take more then 5 or six steps sideway before going down.

Like others have said, use a good bullet;hit him in the right place and a moose will not go far.

Tk

[ROM]

I used to use Winchester silvertips for my 308. I only shot 1 moose with them and it was broodside 70 yards. One shot through 2 ribs and the lungs and straight through. Dropped like it was hit by lightning and died. Totaly awesome. I did not like silvertips for knockdown on deer though. I was constantly tracking. Definately sharpened my skills. Now I can track anything with next to no evidence. Powerpoints killed deer bang but when in a mixed hunt I always had those silvertips. My cousin loved silvertips for big game also and he has 20 years hunting on me.

R

[Griswold]

It is clear that people are passionate about their 308's.
I own 2 of them and I use 160gr Barnes X bullets in both.
I have also tried Hi energy ammo that gives you the velocity of a 30-06.
Both my rifles have short barrels and the proved to had poor accuracy.
So like the people before me say, use the ammo that works well in your rifle and shoot straight you can't go wrong.

[Dick284]

160gr, Barnes X?
I sure hope that is a typo.
There are no 160's in 30 cal. 165's, 168's, but no 160's.

[Dick284]

The other night I put a 308 that I bought from Catnthehat through it's paces. It is not your typical hunting rifle, more precisely it is a Palma style match rifle.
I loaded up some 150gr. SST's on top of 46gr. of Varget, in Winchester cases all lit up by CCI 200 primers.
Amazing is all I can say.
From the bench this rifle was shooting groups into 2" to 2.5" at 250 yards.
After inital zeroing I took it to the grass. That's right off my rather rotund belly with no sling or jacket (not to worry they will come). So from prone with no other equiptment I was punching 3 to 3.5" groups at 250yds. using a peep sight. WOW!!
That's about 1.5 MOA for those who dont get the math aspect too well.
I'm gonna purchase some Palma 155's soon, and hopefully things may even get better.

All the 308's I've owned over the years have exhibited one common trait. They will shoot quite well, and are not too finiky for ammo prefrences. I had an 88 Winchester that with factory Winchester 150 PSP's would shoot into 1.25" at 100 yds with a trigger that was like pulling a coat hanger through a bag full of rocks.
Again if you read my sig. line it pretty much sums it up.