Another Ugly Savage!!

[baptiste_moose]

Well I have been looking at pulling the trigger on a Savage model 111 Light weight Hunter. I handled it a few times in store and decided it was the right fit. I bought it in a 6.5x284 Norma and at 6 lbs I think it's exactly what I was looking for. The only thing I don't care for is this calibre with a 20" barrel. A few years down the line when I get it re-barreled I will prob make it a 24". I'll be reloading with the faster burning powders to try and optimize the shorter barrel. I love Savage riffles mostly because of factory barrels and their out of the box accuracy. As far as looks go half are nice and half are ugly. This riffle is a beauty. What do you guys think? Any bullet suggestions? I wanna push a 140gr. Load suggestions? Any input is appreciated.

[tchardy1972]

I like it. In my 6.5-284 I shoot the 140 amax over h4831

[Cowtown guy]

The 20" tube helps to make it a "lightweight" hunter.

I agree that you will lose velocity, but typically the lightweight crowd is willing to sacrifice velocity for weight. Packing that thing with an extra 16 or 20 ounces makes a big difference for some in where they hunt.

The cartridge is able to utilize the high BC bullets to offset that velocity difference somewhat. Try the 140 Bergers, although they may be a little tough to get shooting with the mag length. Another one to try is the 140 Accubonds. Good BC in a hunting bullet and they don't typically need to be seated as close to the lands to get them to shoot, which may help with the detachable mag length.

[twofifty]

baptiste have you noticed if your 111 is on the short-throated side?

I have a model 11 in 260Rem that is throated 31 thou shorter than the COL listed in the Hornady manual for their 129gr Interlock sp.
.031" and that's with the bullet touching the lands!

I have yet to work up my first load for this Lightweight Hunter. Might not be a problem with 129-130 grainers, but this will not give me much latitude when it comes to seating the 140gr bullets. Might have to ream the throat out a bit for the long bullets or else will lose too much case capacity.

[Alberta Bigbore]

nothing ugly about it

[Pathfinder76]

That's all a matter of prospective.

[corky51]

the lightweight hunter is a beautiful rifle, and yes, it probably does have a very short throat, my savage 12 btvss .223 has a very short throat too.

[foxhunter540]

i have been looking at one in the the 308 i think i might just have to pull the trigger lol

[baptiste_moose]

Thanks for the input guys. I absolutely love it. One of the nicest looking savages going right now. I know the 20" helps keep weight down but I was more after the lightened receiver and bolt in a 111 platform. So 4" more barrel wouldn't add to much weight. Thats years from now though. Good to know about the short throat. Might have to look into getting that reamed when I get the bolt handle skeletonized and bolt face trued. Cause I will def be pushing a 140gr bullet. I do find IMR 4831 to work well in all my other savages and VLD's and accu bonds is where I was gonna start. Keep the info and suggestions coming.

Dorin

[twofifty]

Yeah, it sure is a sweetheart. Mine jumps to the shoulder such that there's a full field of view through the scope with no need to wiggle up or down the stock. The hollowed out forestock pleasantly surprised me that it is not a cooked noodle.

I mail-ordered the rifle sight unseen on a leap of faith given the consistent good reviews Savage products get and found the rifle to meet all expectations. Mind you I have yet to shoot it more than a few times and that was to fireform some cases. It is not yet sighted in. Hopefully it does its job and shoots minute of deer.

More info:
For my body type and a VX-1 2-7x33, the Leupold low rings (height of .65") were a good choice: about 1/8" bell clearance and enough bolt handle clearance. The used medium rings I first decoyed lifted my cheek away from the stock. Amazing what difference .10" will do.

The rear 2-pce Leupold mount does end up 'backwards' otherwise it interferes with bolt closing. This looks a bit odd and takes up a bit of space at the back of the action. Maybe another base would have given me a cleaner look. Not a biggy for a hunting rifle.

Dorin, re: bolt face trueing. Remember that the 2-pce Savage bolt head is supposed to ensure true lockup; the front part has a bit of wiggle room. Not sure there is much to be gained by machining the face...plus that would change the relationship of the extractor to the face.

I too picked IMR 4831 as the first work-up powder. Have yet to start so no experience to relate there. Glad that you liked it in your other Savages - this is my first one ever.

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by corky51

the lightweight hunter is a beautiful rifle, and yes, it probably does have a very short throat, my savage 12 btvss .223 has a very short throat too.

Corky thanks for that info.

The model 11's short throat is too bad because the DBM mag has enough room for a 3.000" COL cartridge. 260Rem SAAMI COL is 2.800" so I was hoping for lots of seating latitude. Instead I get the opposite and might be forced to ream the throat out for 140s.

[baptiste_moose]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Dorin, re: bolt face trueing. Remember that the 2-pce Savage bolt head is supposed to ensure true lockup; the front part has a bit of wiggle room. Not sure there is much to be gained by machining the face...plus that would change the relationship of the extractor to the face.

I find this not to be true. When I trim my brass from my other model 11's they have a wobble. Which to me means that the bolt face is not true. Correct me if I'm wrong. As for an ejector issue. Sharp Shooters Supply is making an aftermarket ejector, it is a piece that will correct most ejection problems. It is well made, and is upgrade from the factory ejector. I have swapped my other 11's and 111's to this ejector. I need to speak with a good smith and see what he has for recommendations. I can file the ejector for seating depth off the face. That is not an issue.

[twofifty]

Thanks for the info. That's too bad about the case wobble & the boltface needing trueing. I also didn't know there is an ejector issue. Is the extractor ok though?

Guess I'll find out soon enough. I got this model 11 for close in deer hunting so am not too worried about it not being a match rifle.

[tchardy1972]

Talk to Jerry at mystic precision about truing the bolt face. I would put money on that when you are done talking, you won't be doing it. You will be hard pressed to find a man with more experience with this action. He uses a bone stock action with nothing more than his bolt timing to compete in f class. He is a very accomplished f class shooter. He also uses mostly prefit barrels too.

[tchardy1972]

To visibly see a wobble in your brass means something is really out. Do any other rifles do this or just the one? Maybe its the way your trimmer locks up? I know if I'm not careful, my Lyman trimmer will lock up crooked.

[baptiste_moose]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

Talk to Jerry at mystic precision about truing the bolt face. I would put money on that when you are done talking, you won't be doing it. You will be hard pressed to find a man with more experience with this action. He uses a bone stock action with nothing more than his bolt timing to compete in f class. He is a very accomplished f class shooter. He also uses mostly prefit barrels too.

If he says it's nothing to worry about that good news for me! Less money I need to spend. I will def go in to see him and have a chat. Great advice. It could be my Lymann trimmer as well but my axis brass never had a wobble believe it or not. Just 11's and 111's.

[catnthehat]

I thought that it was common knowledge that truing a Savage bolt face was a waste of time because of the floating head.
That was the main reason it was designed that way, a very cost effective way of controlling it in the manufacture process.
Team Savage BTW, shoots box stock Fclass Savages - and wins with them.
Cat

[baptiste_moose]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I thought that it was common knowledge that truing a Savage bolt face was a waste of time because of the floating head.
That was the main reason it was designed that way, a very cost effective way of controlling it in the manufacture process.
Team Savage BTW, shoots box stock Fclass Savages - and wins with them.
Cat

This is who I was waiting for!!

I wonder what would cause that case wobble? I don't think it is affecting accuracy so I guess i will just let it ride then. Just something I noticed on all my mod 11's. I have not shot this new 111 though!

[260 Rem]

Baptiste - can you describe the "wobble" to which you refer when trimming. Are you refering to the neck wobbling when held by the lock stud in an electric drill. If that is the case, the first thing I would do is to clean the rim in the lock stud to insure the case is not sitting off center. Second, can you detect any wobble on the case towards the shoulder, or is the wobble just in the case neck. If it is just the latter, the expander button in your sizing die may be pulling the neck out of line? Do you have a way of checking the concentricity of a loaded round? A bolt face that was so far out of square to the bore line would be pretty unusual.

[baptiste_moose]

I use a Lymann Manual trimmer and when I lock it up and spin it the case is out of centre. So before I lock it I slide the case neck onto the guide then lock it up. I can't see it being the trimmer as it doesn't happen with all brass. Only certain rifles. Seems kinda weird. Your right about a case comparator. This would def help to eliminate a few variables. Can't seeing being the die because it happens with 3 rifles, all diff calibre's. My accuracy is great but I just wanna know if It would be better if I found the root of this prob.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by baptiste_moose

I use a Lymann Manual trimmer and when I lock it up and spin it the case is out of centre. So before I lock it I slide the case neck onto the guide then lock it up. I can't see it being the trimmer as it doesn't happen with all brass. Only certain rifles. Seems kinda weird. Your right about a case comparator. This would def help to eliminate a few variables.

if you do not have access to a concentrically gauge, and you want to find out for sure, send me a couple of cases that wobble and I'll put them on my my Dial indicators and see where and if they are out of alignment .
I'm of the though of 260Rem, I think it may be your trimmer, but one never knows until all variables are checked.
Cat

[baptiste_moose]

Thanks for the offer Cat but this is just the opportunity I was looking for to buy another toy. It's a great tool I will use for years to come. I sure hope my wife isn't secretly an AO member!

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by baptiste_moose

I use a Lymann Manual trimmer and when I lock it up and spin it the case is out of centre. So before I lock it I slide the case neck onto the guide then lock it up. I can't see it being the trimmer as it doesn't happen with all brass. Only certain rifles. Seems kinda weird. Your right about a case comparator. This would def help to eliminate a few variables. Can't seeing being the die because it happens with 3 rifles, all diff calibre's. My accuracy is great but I just wanna know if It would be better if I found the root of this prob.

IMO, having one rifle with a boltface so far out it was warping the base of your case would be unusual..to have it happen with three rifles from the same household, all different calibers...very doubtful. If your accuracy is decent, you may be over analyzing this problem.
By-the-way, no rifle that is accurate is ugly

[Robmcleod82]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

IMO, having one rifle with a boltface so far out it was warping the base of your case would be unusual..to have it happen with three rifles from the same household, all different calibers...very doubtful. If your accuracy is decent, you may be over analyzing this problem.
By-the-way, no rifle that is accurate is ugly

Oh I beg to differ

[baptiste_moose]

Hence why I called it " Another Ugly Savage" I knew we'd have some anti savage chirpers! I've seen some ugly Tack drivers though!

[tchardy1972]

You and I have the same trimmer. I find it a bugger to get the case in straight sometimes. You can feel when it is straight by the resistance on the handle when you spin it. When I lock it up I put the neck on the collet and push directly behind the shaft then lock it. If I'm not happy with how straight it is, I unlock it spin the case and try again. I've been meaning to upgrade but I can make it work and money is needed elsewhere

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by Robmcleod82

Oh I beg to differ

Come on now. I have a locker full of those ugly savages.

[Robmcleod82]

Originally Posted by baptiste_moose

Hence why I called it " Another Ugly Savage" I knew we'd have some anti savage chirpers! I've seen some ugly Tack drivers though!

Agreed

[Robmcleod82]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

Come on now. I have a locker full of those ugly savages.

Thats your sickness dude

[uglyelk]

My savage shoot pretty groups!