closing the bolt problems -help

wolf308 · #1 02-16-2013, 06:33 PM

hey just recently aqquired a model 70 super grade customed to take 300 H&H .

was gonna make up some handloads , brass prep etc, made a dummy round with 180 gr gameking, no powder or primer and cant close the bolt.

i know the mod 70 is controlled feed,

i had a dummy round from my previous H&H with a 210 berger and that fed no porblems.,

i cleaned chamber and took a bunch of measurements,cant figure it out.

tried full sizing,neck sizing, 2 brass manufacturers, neck trimmed brass. tried seating a 208 gr a max cant close bolt,massive frustration.

head space or shoulder issue perhaps? thanx for looking

Hotwheels81 · #2 02-16-2013, 06:42 PM

Try a FL sized empty case without a bullet, if its a no go then you have a die issue or a tight chamber... If it refuses to go only with a seated bullet then keep seating it deeper till you find the happy spot but you probably already knew that.

If its a die issue with the shoulder not being pushed far enough back then you can always file a bit off the shell holder.

Did you try smoking a case with a candle and feeding it to see if there were any tight spots?

wolf308 · #3 02-16-2013, 06:50 PM

yeah ive tried with no bullet -no dice.

ill go try the candle smoke thing right now.

can you elaborate on the shell holder thing you mentioned?

Lefty-Canuck · #4 02-16-2013, 06:51 PM

If your dummy round was fired from your other rifle then that's your issue the chambers are different sizes.....use a virgin unfired brass.

LC

wolf308 · #5 02-16-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If your dummy round was fired from your other rifle then that's your issue the chambers are different sizes.....use a virgin unfired brass.

LC

ok copy that. think ive shot all mine. have to pick up more.

ok so i candle smoked the brass, a un seated one and the one that will go in. smudge marks on the non bullet one and the dummy round one is clean. but both have a scrape along their neck and just into the shoulder on bottom side of when chambered. whats that a tool mark? i cant see nothing with a bore light.but dont mean much. pretty cool trick ive never done that b4-probably because ive always been able to close bolt.

wolf308 · #6 02-16-2013, 07:10 PM

yeah im not sure why the one (dummy)cartridge chambers fine. it has a popped primer ,and why none of the others dont, bullet or no bullet. they were all fired in the previous rifle.

probably tight chamber i guess. that scrape is bothering me. ill take it to bob when i can .

oh and one other thing i noticed-when i remove the bolt and placed a casing/round on it to slide it in all as one, i noticed the casing teeter totters in place on the bolt face pretty bad. wonder if that could be a loading issue or just a accuracy issue?

#7 02-16-2013, 07:42 PM

What happens if you try to chamber a few similar cases - sided 100% without primer? One worked, the others should.

At one point does the bolt no longer move foreward?

I doubt the extractor is touching the barrel but you could smoke the front and right side of the extractor nose to see if it has any contact marks when you cycle a case that works and then one that doesn't.

Was the bolt face modified? What was the previous chambering on that action?

Hotwheels81 · #8 02-16-2013, 07:51 PM

My guess is its a drag mark from riding up the feed ramp, might be normal but you need to watch as the round travels from the mag into the chamber.

I'd say you should pull the bolt out and make sure the face is clean as a next step.

The 300 H&H being a belted magnum might also be hanging up right at the base, carefully I spect the area where the belt meets the body between your go and no go cases... A typical FL die won't size rite to the belt and often causes chambering issues.

As for filing down the shell holder it's sometimes a necessary evil with a tight chamber, take a flat file to it and remove a few strokes worth of material so the distance between the die and shell holder shrinks a bit thus pushing the shoulder farther down the case... Stop as soon as a sized case will chamber easily.

foxhunter540 · #9 02-16-2013, 08:30 PM

fired brass from another gun will be the issuse like stated try virgin brass or full length size but then the mag rim might be expanded a touch from the other gun

DaleJ · #10 02-16-2013, 11:08 PM

Back off you scope base screws, Sorry! Seems like them 300 H&H rifles and you don't get along.

PoppaW · #11 02-16-2013, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleJ

Back off you scope base screws, Sorry!

This was my first guess. Pull of the front base and see. What can it hurt. Could save a whole pile of frustration with dies and brass.

cornuteo · #12 02-16-2013, 11:14 PM

I would also agree that if it is a belted magnum case, your problem is expansion just above the belt.
I had similiar issues with a .338 win mag. Purchased the Collet belt sizing die from Innovative technologies ( 1 week delivery) and it solved all my problems. Make sure it will accept the cal. case you shoot if your thinking of it. Check out his site. Lots of neet stuff and some good info.

Boxer-O · #13 02-16-2013, 11:21 PM

Mine was an actual mechanical malfunction on the rifle itself. If the bolt isn't closing try twisting the end of the bolt to ensure the sleeve lock is engaged.

wolf308 · #14 02-18-2013, 06:07 PM

doesnt seem to be the bolt cause i can close it on a previous dummy round.

someone is sending me some virgin brass and i just ordered a redding full legth sizer die from sinclairs, so between those i hope the issue is done.

after that , its beyond me and on the way to the g smith. ill keep you guys posted,thanx for the input.

bdub · #15 02-18-2013, 06:28 PM

I've been following this to see what the problem turned out to be. If I am getting this right all the resized brass from your previous rifle will not chamber in this one. I tend to agree with previous posters that the problem is due to the expansion of the case close to the belt. Probably a bit larger chamber in the other rifle at that point and you can't size it down without shaving a bit of your shell holder or going with new brass. Is your dummy cartridge from the old rifle unfired? Looking forward to what you figure out. Good luck.

wolf308 · #16 02-18-2013, 08:08 PM

no the dummy round that chambers appears to be shot b4 as well .

has a firing pinned primer.

maybe ill pull that bullet,resize it and see if it chambers then. then ill know if its my full sizer die.

eric2381 · #17 02-18-2013, 08:27 PM

Is it CRF? Are you feeding the empty brass from the mag so it's engaged by the claw extractor?

I'm not at home right now to check my pre 64 M70, but if you're just hand feeding the brass into the chamber and closing the bolt, you may be having issues with the extractor not jumping over the rim.

I'm assuming alot here, because I don't know much about your rifle.

cornuteo · #18 02-18-2013, 10:27 PM

I don't think thats gonna solve your problem. It still will not go down and size the expansion at the ( above) the belt.

catnthehat · #19 02-19-2013, 06:05 AM

It could be that the brass that won't chamber expanded too much when it fired and is not getting sized down properly at the base, as was stated by a few here.
Cat

wolf308 · #20 03-19-2013, 10:09 AM

ok finally got a virgin piece from a friend on gun nuts, i tried that ,bam worked,resized it ,bam works, gonna seat a bullet now(new dummy round and see if that works) ,it should.

so yeah it would seem that my previously fired brasss from a custom gun wont work in this new custom gun as well.

hey is there anywhere that takes bad brass/ unwanted brass?

or what about live rounds for disposal?

32-40win · #21 03-19-2013, 10:49 AM

Check out the Innovative Tech die, it does size down to the belt, the commercial FLS dies from Redding, RCBS and etc don't do that. Then you should be able to use that brass again. The only way it will not help you, is with an expanded belt, which is a whole nother issue. But, you can check that before buying one.