Reloading & Accuracy Question

[Mad_Mikee]

Hi Everyone,

Hope this is the right location for the post. Just have a question for some of the reloaders on the board.

A friend and I have just recently started reloading. We've both done a lot of reading and have built a few batches of rifle ammo. We're being safe and working out way up with the powder charges.

I'm loading for a Ruger MKII in 30-06. I'm grouping really well at 100 yards (4out of 5 shots touching) using 168g Barnes TSX bullets and 53grains of AA2520 powder. Last week when I tried to sight my rifle in at 200 yards, my groups were scattered to say the least. Out of 5 shots, I had 2 within about 1/2'' of each other and then 3 more all within about 6'' in various directions.

All shooting was done from a stable bench, with a rest and with a cool barrel.
Barrel was clean, and the scope mounts are tight.

I'm hoping to get a case OAL gauge. Maybe see if I can seat the bullets out a bit further.

One person at WSS suggested I move to a 180grain bullet. He said 168grain was match grade for a 308, not a 30-06. Im still not convinced thats the answer.

Any suggestions or quick fixes I can give a try would be greatly appreciated.

Like I said, I'm fairly new to this so I'm sure I've overlooked something along the way.

Thanks in advance.

TUC - thanks again for the brass...very much appreciated.

[sullijr]

Reshoot at 100yds.Ensure rest is at same place on forend every time,check scope for paralax.Problem sounds mechanical,bedding change,loose forend screw,don't get it too tight should be approx 70 in lbs.

[Dick284]

Optics and paralax is likely your culprit, but as Sulli said something has changed.

[Frans]

OK, here is a wild one.... and I say this because I pertains to me:

Are you sure you are up performing up to snuff?

I can shoot pretty tight groups at 100 meters, but at 200 I just have difficulty putting tight groups together. I use a 6X fixed power scope, which with enough practice shouldn't be an issue, but I'm just not sure the shot breaks at the exact right moment every time. Little deviations at the bench become quite visible at 200.

I had exactly the same pattern as you mentioned two weeks ago: 3 shots within an inch at 200, and two more opening up the group to 5". This rifle has tumbled down a shale slope (only a short way) with me without shifting zero.

I wouldn't be too quick to blame it on the rifle, your reloads, or another technical issue.

Unless you are sure of your shooting, which I am not always.

Hope you don't take offense, just suggesting a possible cause.

Frans

[Mad_Mikee]

I thought my shooting might be the culprit. The first attempt I had at 200 yards was off a plastic folding table. I figured some of the flexing in the table was the issue. Last weekend I was out at the Sibald range shooting off of one of their benches. I'm also using a cadillac shooting rest (I believe thats the name).

Maybe as a starting point while I wait for the OAL gauge to come in, i'll shoot some factory amo at 200 yards and see how it performs. I'll also shoot a few rounds at 100 again to make sure something hasnt gone wrong since shooting the tight groups a few weeks ago.

From what I understand, the 168grain bullet I'm using should be ideally suited for my 30-06 rifle. If a heavier 180grain is the ideal weight for a 30-06 like the WSS employee mentioned, please let me know and I can give that a try.

Thanks for the suggestions...sounds like i'll have to do a bit more investigation at the range.

[Dick284]

TSX's regardless of the weight are hunting bullets.
Another wonderful piece of advice from NoSaleSports.
Your 168's are indeed about ideal in your 30'06.
Your choice of powder is interesting indeed.
Not saying it's wrong, especially if it is working for you.
Just not what you'd call traditional in the '06 with that weight of bullet.
Have you chronied your load?

[Frans]

Originally Posted by Mad_Mikee

Maybe as a starting point while I wait for the OAL gauge to come in [...] From what I understand, the 168grain bullet I'm using should be ideally suited for my 30-06 rifle. If a heavier 180grain is the ideal weight for a 30-06 like the WSS employee mentioned, please let me know and I can give that a try.

OAL gauge.... how's about regular calipers? I've always used those, and am of the firm opinion that a wee difference won't make inches of difference on the target.

I've had advice from WSS staff that made my pants slide off. Of course there may be gains in accuracy from one bullet weight to the other, but not inches. It won't turn your 6" group into a 2" group.

Frans

[Unregistered user]

You'd be surprised how much drift a light breeze can give your bullet @200 yards, lots of variables here.

[Mad_Mikee]

Im using the rifle for hunting primarily so I wanted to get it all dialed in for the TSX bullets. I also plan on eventually loading some cheaper hornady bullets for punching paper.

I dont expect to have sniper accuracy with the gun. For my first time reloading I was actually blown away when I had 4 out of my 5 shots at 100 yards touch each other. I figure as long as I have decent accuracy at 200 yards and I know where the bullet will end up when I pull the trigger, I wont have any excuses for missed shots during hunting season.

I was hoping to use the OAL gauge to measure how deep I can seat the bullets off of the lands. The barnes TSX bullets came with a little slip of paper inside the case that said to seat them 0.030 to 0.070'' off of the lands for ideal performance. I just need to get a maximum overal cartidge length (with bullets seated) for my particular rifle then I figure I can graduaully adjust my seating die until the finished cartridge has an overall length which is approx 0.05'' off the lands when loaded in the rifle.

The overall length of my currently loaded cartridges is the same as the federal factory amo I used to shoot as well as whats listed in my Lyans reloading guide. Im guessing the bullets I'm loading are being seated too deep into the cases. Guess I wont actually know until I get a tool. I know there are lots of hoakey ways of measure but for like $50 I figured I'd just get the proper tool for the job.

The only reason I went with the AA2520 powder was that it was listed on the Barnes website as recomendation for the bullet. Since I'm fairly new with this, figured I better at least start with what the bullet maker recomended.

I'm pretty excited to get out to Sibbald range on Sat morning to do a bit more testing. I'm hoping my problem is what at work we call "chair-keyboard interface".


Thanks for all the great imput everyone.

[Mad_Mikee]

I dont have a crony yet. Its on the list of accessories to get ASAP.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mad_Mikee

Hi Everyone,

Hope this is the right location for the post. Just have a question for some of the reloaders on the board.

A friend and I have just recently started reloading. We've both done a lot of reading and have built a few batches of rifle ammo. We're being safe and working out way up with the powder charges.

I'm loading for a Ruger MKII in 30-06. I'm grouping really well at 100 yards (4out of 5 shots touching) using 168g Barnes TSX bullets and 53grains of AA2520 powder. Last week when I tried to sight my rifle in at 200 yards, my groups were scattered to say the least. Out of 5 shots, I had 2 within about 1/2'' of each other and then 3 more all within about 6'' in various directions.

All shooting was done from a stable bench, with a rest and with a cool barrel.
Barrel was clean, and the scope mounts are tight.

I'm hoping to get a case OAL gauge. Maybe see if I can seat the bullets out a bit further.

One person at WSS suggested I move to a 180grain bullet. He said 168grain was match grade for a 308, not a 30-06. Im still not convinced thats the answer.

Any suggestions or quick fixes I can give a try would be greatly appreciated.

Like I said, I'm fairly new to this so I'm sure I've overlooked something along the way.

Thanks in advance.

TUC - thanks again for the brass...very much appreciated.

Sounds like a form/positioning issue to me, because the 100 yard groups are good, but the 2000 goes way out, farhter than it should for the MOA deviation.
Form is everything, you can't shoot consistanly without good form and a good shot sequence.

butt stock position is critical, as is head positoning, not jus the
buzz word that many use these days - "cheek weld".
This term is used to define the amount of pressure on the cheek pice of the rifle, but there is a lot mor to the head position that that
( although it is important)
Eye relief and head orientation count also.

trigger finger position must be correct, as must the tension and frequencey of the triiger squeeze needed to break the trigger.
follow through, although commonly ignored, is very important, as one's nerves can twich a barrel out of alignment easily beofre the bullet gets out of the barrel.
There are other factors also but I will not belabour the fact here.
It is easily summed up by getting as consistant as one can with the shot sequence, making sure that you do everything possible to do evrything the same each time, and not "letting down" after the shot too quickly.

or it may be a parralax thing, as Dick suggested! ( I don't think so however)
Cat

[catnthehat]

I have a question - how do you measure your bullet's OAL now?
Barnes suggests starting their bullets off at .050 off the lands and going from there...
Cat

[Mad_Mikee]

Basically I'm not sure how close or far off the lands my reloaded amo is. I'm pretty sure its too far off.

I used my caliper and measured the total overall length of the factory Federal amo I had been using. The factory amo is 3.2'' and my reloads are 3.22. The Lyman 48th Edition book I have shows a overall length of 3.34''. I wanted to ensure my overall length was less than that. At least to start with.

With my friends 300wby, we made a little tool to try and get the max OAL. Basically slotted the neck of unprimed and uncharged cartridge. Seated the bullet way out and closed the bolt which pushed the bullet in. We saw the idea on a website that was talkin about OAL.
I figure I'll wait for WSS to get the correct tool in.

I was reading how the distance off of the lands really affects the accuracy. I kind of figured, since the ammo was shooting so well at 100 yards, the OAL was pretty much what the factory ammo is, I wouldnt screw with it too much. When I was shooting at 200 yards and the groups werent as tight as at 100 yards, I figured I better start checking a few other factors

[sullijr]

Weatherby rifles are free bored that is one of the ways that their high velocities are reached.Follow book lengths or talk to experienced weatherby reloaders eg Roger on this forum..