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  #1  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:50 PM
Darren77 Darren77 is offline
 
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Default changes to 2020 hunting draws

Reading the new hunting regulations, I see the part about having to buy your wildlife certificate in 2020 prior to entering draws? How will this effect hunters like my dad who only hunts moose in northern Alberta. He 999's his draws for 3 years in a row because he knows he will only get drawn every 4 years. He has no intention of hunting on the years he 999's. Why would he need to buy his wildlife certificate?
Is there going to be a section for hunters who only use 999 to increase their draw priority?
Anyone have any info?
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:05 PM
huntwat huntwat is offline
 
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This is a good change for 95% of Alberta hunters. Your dad is in the not so lucky 5%.
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:29 PM
jednastka jednastka is offline
 
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The issue is that a significant number of tag winners never buy a tag or a wildlife certificate. About the same % as those who purchase a draw entry and never buy a wildlife certificate. Appears that "anti-hunting" groups consider a $4 expenditure worth wrecking a draw system. This has been an AFGA conference recommendation for some time now, and it is good to see it finally enacted.


Vic
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:49 PM
honz honz is offline
 
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Are there really that many anti-hunting groups trying to derail the system? Quickly looking at the draw #'s, the were 121k moose, 104k elk, 142 Mule applications this year alone. It seems the effort would need to be huge to cause a visible disruption. Unless I'm missing something.

I'm genuinely curious.

On the flip side, if anti-hunting groups are buying tags and not using them, wouldn't that just benefit the hunters that do get tags in those areas with reduced pressure and more selection?
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  #5  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:21 PM
Darren77 Darren77 is offline
 
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Default 2020 hunting draw changes

I kind of understand what they are trying to do here but i think there's other ways. Why not make it mandatory for draw winners to buy their tags which includes their wildlife certificate for the current hunting season. Impose a system where they can't apply for next years draws if they don't buy their tags from the previous years. This will cut down on the ones who don't buy their successful draw tags.
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:03 PM
boah boah is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honz View Post

On the flip side, if anti-hunting groups are buying tags and not using them, wouldn't that just benefit the hunters that do get tags in those areas with reduced pressure and more selection?
This is the problem. The antis get drawn and never purchase the tag or a wildlife certificate. Lost revenue and lost opportunity.
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  #7  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:18 AM
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Hilgy Hilgy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren77 View Post
I kind of understand what they are trying to do here but i think there's other ways. Why not make it mandatory for draw winners to buy their tags which includes their wildlife certificate for the current hunting season. Impose a system where they can't apply for next years draws if they don't buy their tags from the previous years. This will cut down on the ones who don't buy their successful draw tags.
This is how it works in a lot of States. In order to enter a draw you need to provide a CC number ( like we do ) and if you are successful your card is charged the minute the draw is done. ( In some of the high profile spots like the Strip in AZ this is how people know they have been drawn because they watch their CC statements online the day of the draws).

A similar system could easily work here and would avoid a situation like the OP posted. CC needed to apply and pay for draws is charged automatically for any successful draws and a WC the minute you are drawn. If you don't use the tags at that point that's on you.


Hilgy
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:31 AM
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icehunter icehunter is offline
 
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Cash grab pure and simple. So say all I want to hunt is antelope but yet for 10 years I have to pay more,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash. I get drawn one year and buy everything but cant make it out. Government gets more cash I lose cash by not going out. Animal survives to reproduce more. I buy all my licenses and cant make it out,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash but that opportunity isn't passed on to some one else because I cant make it out.
Government now ups the prices on everything because they are making more cash and are now getting more greedy. An the list goes on and on.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:45 AM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icehunter View Post
Cash grab pure and simple. So say all I want to hunt is antelope but yet for 10 years I have to pay more,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash. I get drawn one year and buy everything but cant make it out. Government gets more cash I lose cash by not going out. Animal survives to reproduce more. I buy all my licenses and cant make it out,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash but that opportunity isn't passed on to some one else because I cant make it out.
Government now ups the prices on everything because they are making more cash and are now getting more greedy. An the list goes on and on.
I suppose that for the people who only hunt one animal and put in for years to get the draw itís not a good deal. I highly doubt many of those hunters exist.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:05 AM
alacringa alacringa is offline
 
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Does this apply when a person enters 999? Doesn't bother me either way - I hunt every season even if it's just for birds and Whitetails.

I can see how it might bother those who are only entering one draw and not hunting general seasons; but that has to be a small minority.
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  #11  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:28 AM
graybeard graybeard is offline
 
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Put me down for a yes I am in favor.

IMO, there is no perfect system. If you are 999ing for a future hunt, then that comes at the cost of buying a certificate every year. Is it a cash grab, yes it is. If you don't like the system. then get out of the sport. Personally I spend more on a coffee, than on a certificate, on my way to work.

Over the years, people have gotten out of hunting for numerous reason(s).

You can add this to the list of reasons: shrinking access, gun registration, public grazing land access, OHV vehicles, lack of shooting ranges, cost of tags, lack of tags, butcher shops closing down, cost of fuel, dirty camp-sites, cost of equipment...etc (if you are an AO member you have read them all).

The way it is now is, you have one certificate for all your draw selections. I would HATE to see moving forward, that with every species you are applying for that you have to purchase separate certificate for each one.....It could be worse....!

Everyone has a line in the sand to cross and this 999 line may or not be yours....? I hope not....
Good luck
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:14 AM
tony d tony d is offline
 
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Draw applications in Alberta are the cheapest in NA the cost of a certificate is negligible in the big scheme of things don't feel it is unreasonable and hopefully the extra money gets allocated into enhancing our wildlife and opportunities
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:16 AM
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35 whelen 35 whelen is offline
 
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I like it and yes I spend more on coffee in one week than I would on a certificate for a draw

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  #14  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:46 AM
Scottn Scottn is online now
 
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This does not bother me one bit. I want every single opportunity to get out and hunt, easy excuse to take my shotgun for a walk in the woods if I do not feel like hunting for big game. Get some use out of your skis and snowshoes, the woods are pretty peaceful come December 1st for grouse, rabbit or whatever (doesnít even have to be a successful harvest on those days). If you are the type that will only desires to hunt a critter that is in draw where you want to go I can see how this additional cost would be frustrating, but the cert is pretty cheap when you amortize that in your monthly or yearly budget.


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  #15  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:18 AM
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crazy_davey crazy_davey is online now
 
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Itís a change in the correct direction.
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  #16  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:42 PM
RZR RZR is offline
 
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[QUOTE=jednastka;4014067]The issue is that a significant number of tag winners never buy a tag or a wildlife certificate. About the same % as those who purchase a draw entry and never buy a wildlife certificate. Appears that "anti-hunting" groups consider a $4 expenditure worth wrecking a draw system. This has been an AFGA conference recommendation for some time now, and it is good to see it finally enacted.

Having to buy the wildlife certificate won't stop a thing. That just means it'll cost a little bit more for the anti hunting groups and if you think that this will stop them your a fool!
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  #17  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:49 PM
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mulecrazy mulecrazy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icehunter View Post
Cash grab pure and simple. So say all I want to hunt is antelope but yet for 10 years I have to pay more,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash. I get drawn one year and buy everything but cant make it out. Government gets more cash I lose cash by not going out. Animal survives to reproduce more. I buy all my licenses and cant make it out,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash but that opportunity isn't passed on to some one else because I cant make it out.
Government now ups the prices on everything because they are making more cash and are now getting more greedy. An the list goes on and on.
LOL cash grab hey. You do realize that this will only effect a very small minority of legit hunters hey. The vast majority of hunters who put in for draws will do some sort of hunting one way or another regardless of their draw success. As for someone who 999's everything. I can totally get on board with not having to pay the wildlife certificate up front right off the bat for those guys. as soon as someone tries for a draw it automatically purchases your certificate. Again, this is far from a cash grab from legit hunters. It is strictly a cash grab from anti hunters and I am cool with that.
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:50 PM
Jjolg123 Jjolg123 is online now
 
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[QUOTE=RZR;4014415]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jednastka View Post
The issue is that a significant number of tag winners never buy a tag or a wildlife certificate. About the same % as those who purchase a draw entry and never buy a wildlife certificate. Appears that "anti-hunting" groups consider a $4 expenditure worth wrecking a draw system. This has been an AFGA conference recommendation for some time now, and it is good to see it finally enacted.

Having to buy the wildlife certificate won't stop a thing. That just means it'll cost a little bit more for the anti hunting groups and if you think that this will stop them your a fool!
And if that is the case isnt having more income towards conservation a win?
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2019, 02:26 PM
leeelmer leeelmer is offline
 
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[QUOTE=Jjolg123;4014419]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR View Post

And if that is the case isnt having more income towards conservation a win?
This is a non-starter
True its good if it goes to conservation, but remember when we all told them we would be fine with a increase in price of tags if it went to conservation?
And Shannon Philips raised the price of tags? BUt then we found out the money just went to general revenue.
Regardless, our tags are cheep in the grand scheme of things, in the states it costs hundreds of dollars to draw then automatically charges your card for the cost of the tag, then refunds you if you are not successful.
I think that this is sure the first step in the right direction.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:21 PM
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Penner Penner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey View Post
Itís a change in the correct direction.
x2 agreed.
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  #21  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:45 PM
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icehunter icehunter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
LOL cash grab hey. You do realize that this will only effect a very small minority of legit hunters hey. The vast majority of hunters who put in for draws will do some sort of hunting one way or another regardless of their draw success. As for someone who 999's everything. I can totally get on board with not having to pay the wildlife certificate up front right off the bat for those guys. as soon as someone tries for a draw it automatically purchases your certificate. Again, this is far from a cash grab from legit hunters. It is strictly a cash grab from anti hunters and I am cool with that.
Strictly a cash grab from anti hunters? OK, you go on believing yourself all you want. I am a legit hunter and only apply for draws and its been that way for 15-20 years now. Have had so much deer meat and ducks,goose etc that I really don't want anymore. In fact I don't want any ducks or geese at all. Deer maybe for burgers but that's about it. But I can run to the store and pick up hamburger easier then getting a deer just for the meat. In total I have been in the field for just about 40 years now.

An if anyone thinks it would stop people from groups like PETA..you need to wake up. They are backed by multi-million dollar corps that will just go "oh well" and continue to pay. The only way it will up the odds is if guys say that they aren't gonna pay upfront for a cert. when they know they wont get drawn..
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:59 PM
RZR RZR is offline
 
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[QUOTE=leeelmer;4014432]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjolg123 View Post
This is a non-starter
True its good if it goes to conservation, but remember when we all told them we would be fine with a increase in price of tags if it went to conservation?
And Shannon Philips raised the price of tags? BUt then we found out the money just went to general revenue.
Someone gets it! Yet there are a lot of hypocrites here who believe everything they are told. Hereís what the minions should do. ďBelieve nothing of what you hear and half of what you seeĒ.
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:42 PM
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huntinstuff huntinstuff is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey View Post
Itís a change in the correct direction.
x2

absolutely.
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:11 AM
Gear guy Gear guy is offline
 
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I don't mind the change but it sure stinks in some ways. Hopefully it will be beneficial to most people which I think it will be
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  #25  
Old 08-16-2019, 04:26 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
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Hopefully they make a wildlife certificate double the price and increase tag prices as well.
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  #26  
Old 08-16-2019, 05:47 AM
FishHunterPro FishHunterPro is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
I suppose that for the people who only hunt one animal and put in for years to get the draw itís not a good deal. I highly doubt many of those hunters exist.
Maybe they wonít have to wait as long to be drawn if the new system works out.
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  #27  
Old 08-16-2019, 06:15 AM
2 Tollers 2 Tollers is offline
 
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I am fine with this change for the draw process.

Purchasing tags later I think is fine as well. However to deal with unpurchased I would like to see implementation of a process where tags not purchased by a certain date became available for open purchase. This could be either shortly before or shortly after the opening of the general season for that zone.

I know one year I had an injury in September that prevented me from getting out for the rest of the fall. My 936 elk tag would have been available to someone else. Yes I would have lost my priority which is fine but having someone being able to use the tag would have been preferred. I called F&W and there was nothing that could be done.

I see this as a simple fix as well.
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2019, 09:19 AM
Darren77 Darren77 is offline
 
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Default 2020 Hunting Draws

Thanks for all the replies on the 2020 draws. I figured there would be a lot of mixed feelings. Moving forward I hope the Government will make some amendments again maybe in 2021.
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2019, 09:41 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilgy View Post
This is how it works in a lot of States. In order to enter a draw you need to provide a CC number ( like we do ) and if you are successful your card is charged the minute the draw is done. ( In some of the high profile spots like the Strip in AZ this is how people know they have been drawn because they watch their CC statements online the day of the draws).

A similar system could easily work here and would avoid a situation like the OP posted. CC needed to apply and pay for draws is charged automatically for any successful draws and a WC the minute you are drawn. If you don't use the tags at that point that's on you.


Hilgy
Absolutely ! Where else can you order anything on line without submitting a
Credit Card? It makes no sense at all to do it any other way.
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2019, 05:46 PM
Unregistered user Unregistered user is offline
 
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Good idea, I'll hunt drawn or general.
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