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01-28-2018, 09:26 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,240
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More Inconvenient Truth about Electric Vehicles
They can really go a long way, as long as you don't mind not having any heat in the winter.
http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/314908
It is really becoming a cult of ideology, where facts don't matter much, and the more outrageous and absurd the claim, the bigger the grins on the euphoric faces of the true believers...
http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...-vehicle-crowd
Do you really think all gas stations are going to be bankrupt by 2020 as all fossil fuel vehicles go to the wreckers? I love to take that bet, for some serious money.....
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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01-28-2018, 10:06 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Millet
Posts: 861
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EV still has a long way to go. Until we have a good source of clean electricity they really are not any better. Still have their own set of issues with battery pollution, making of and disposal. They are really only going to work well in large cities with certain climates for a while. Grid locked traffic moving at 10km per hour won't help much with electric vehicles. They need regenerative braking to help keep charge up.
I think the hybrid is much better alternative, electric in city then still have distance to travel long distances on fuel. Switch between the 2 as needed. Stuck in traffic for hours and still get home if you have fuel in the tank.
Eventually I think they may come out and be viable, but still years away. Just like the self driving car, only good for certain road conditions that are perfect.
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01-28-2018, 10:21 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
They can really go a long way, as long as you don't mind not having any heat in the winter.
http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/314908
It is really becoming a cult of ideology, where facts don't matter much, and the more outrageous and absurd the claim, the bigger the grins on the euphoric faces of the true believers...
http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/mot...-vehicle-crowd
Do you really think all gas stations are going to be bankrupt by 2020 as all fossil fuel vehicles go to the wreckers? I love to take that bet, for some serious money.....
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Great link and reality check. There was a big fan fare of a company committing to electric powered semi trucks.
Less emphasis on the commitment being $5000 refundable deposit and misssing critical leaps in technology to make it feasible.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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01-28-2018, 10:33 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,754
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Great articles. California really is another reality, isn't it!
Too bad all American 'journalists' think it's obligatory to slide in clever little jabs about Trump, to show how cool they are. I find it detracts from their stories. Our media elite have to slavishly follow as well ....
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The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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01-28-2018, 10:47 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
Do you really think all gas stations are going to be bankrupt by 2020 as all fossil fuel vehicles go to the wreckers? I love to take that bet, for some serious money.....
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As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).
Last edited by Scott h; 01-28-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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01-28-2018, 10:58 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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Another “finger in the dike” thread.
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Old Guys Rule
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01-28-2018, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vulcan Ab
Posts: 3,871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem
Another “finger in the dike” thread.
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Are you talking about Ontario?
__________________
"It's like bragging that it's 10 CENTIMETERS LONG! (when really, it's 4" dude, settle down)"
Huntinstuff
"Me neither but it's all in the eye of the beer holder"
norwestalta
.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!
LC
"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......
when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.
Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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01-28-2018, 11:04 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).
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Short distance warm weather commuting. Will work. London will be electric only metro in like 10 years or something like that. If you think of how many cars that is in major warm climate cities, pretty big market.
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01-28-2018, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).
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Ah well then, I guess if downtown Vancouver has eliminated gas stations, the rest of the country, nay, the entire continent MUST soon follow suit. After all, driving across the Canadian prairies in the dead of winter is essentially the same as commuting in downtown Vancouver.....
As far as cheaper to own and operate...maybe some day when batteries are more efficient to build, store energy, and dispose of. Go check what it costs to replace batteries even in the hybrids after seven years and then figure out how much fuel you could have bought with that...
Someday, the EV is going to eliminate fossil fuel powered internal combustion vehicles, but it's not going to be in the next two years. The technology just isn't there yet. It will be the natural evolution of transportation and commuting though.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
Last edited by Twisted Canuck; 01-28-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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01-28-2018, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vulcan Ab
Posts: 3,871
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__________________
"It's like bragging that it's 10 CENTIMETERS LONG! (when really, it's 4" dude, settle down)"
Huntinstuff
"Me neither but it's all in the eye of the beer holder"
norwestalta
.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!
LC
"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......
when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.
Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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01-28-2018, 11:24 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,522
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I wonder back in the day when cars started to come on the market if people with horses and buggies where just as quick to point out the lack of gas stations and the short distances they could travel. Humanity will not be bound by the internal combustion engine for ever. Will cars be gone by 2020, no way but there days are numbered for sure.
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01-28-2018, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 882
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Aside from the coal burning that makes electricity and the what goes into batteries. Along with the short lifespan. My biggest issue with electric cars has to be the price. They just haven't broken the over head enough to make it worth it. Tesla is all good and well but not many people can afford a car with the amount of limitations they have.
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I seem to really be rather long winded.
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01-28-2018, 11:34 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,082
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I like simplicity of electric motor. However for Canadians who travel anywhere remotely (western canadians🏕📬🇨🇦 . The infrastructure will require time. Just to convert 5-10% of automobile market to EV will take time (20 years). The remainder 90% will keep chugging away. Maybe after 2050-2070 the conversion maybe complete.
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01-28-2018, 12:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmtada
I like simplicity of electric motor. However for Canadians who travel anywhere remotely (western canadians🏕📬🇨🇦 . The infrastructure will require time. Just to convert 5-10% of automobile market to EV will take time (20 years). The remainder 90% will keep chugging away. Maybe after 2050-2070 the conversion maybe complete.
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When a car can go from Calgary to a Edmonton to Red Deer on one charge in the middle of a minus 25 cold snap we will take notice in Canada.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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01-28-2018, 02:34 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,662
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Guess I'll leave the Tesla at home during my upcoming Cannonball Run across the States, cause that is about 98% of my commuting you know.
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01-28-2018, 02:39 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
Ah well then, I guess if downtown Vancouver has eliminated gas stations, the rest of the country, nay, the entire continent MUST soon follow suit. After all, driving across the Canadian prairies in the dead of winter is essentially the same as commuting in downtown Vancouver.....
As far as cheaper to own and operate...maybe some day when batteries are more efficient to build, store energy, and dispose of. Go check what it costs to replace batteries even in the hybrids after seven years and then figure out how much fuel you could have bought with that...
Someday, the EV is going to eliminate fossil fuel powered internal combustion vehicles, but it's not going to be in the next two years. The technology just isn't there yet. It will be the natural evolution of transportation and commuting though.
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With the Nissan Leaf the battery started at 24kwh in 2011 then went to 30kwh in 2014 and is now 40kwh in 2018. The 2019 is apparently 60kwh.
Do you notice any kind of trend in those numbers ????? And that's only over 8 years !!!!
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01-28-2018, 03:21 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
With the Nissan Leaf the battery started at 24kwh in 2011 then went to 30kwh in 2014 and is now 40kwh in 2018. The 2019 is apparently 60kwh.
Do you notice any kind of trend in those numbers ????? And that's only over 8 years !!!!
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No I didn't!!!!! I'm not bright enough to tell the difference between 24 and 60 in only 8 years!!!!!!
Does this mean all gas stations will be gone by 2020????? Would you like to bet me $5000 that there will at least one gas station left in the Dominion of Canada in two years??????
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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01-28-2018, 03:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
With the Nissan Leaf the battery started at 24kwh in 2011 then went to 30kwh in 2014 and is now 40kwh in 2018. The 2019 is apparently 60kwh.
Do you notice any kind of trend in those numbers ????? And that's only over 8 years !!!!
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What kind of KWH is needed to be equivalent to my chipped diesel that gets 900km a tank, and keep me warm in -40?
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01-28-2018, 03:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubious
I wonder back in the day when cars started to come on the market if people with horses and buggies where just as quick to point out the lack of gas stations and the short distances they could travel. Humanity will not be bound by the internal combustion engine for ever. Will cars be gone by 2020, no way but there days are numbered for sure.
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Good point.
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01-28-2018, 03:51 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,367
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__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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01-28-2018, 04:06 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,507
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Just think of all the infrastructure that will have to go into place to really make electric cars take over. I think in Calgary you would need plugs for every parking spot.
A cool feature on the TESLA cars, is you can turn on the heat while its plug in before you leave. This allows you to pre-heat the car on shore power and not use battery power. That feature would be required to be used in a climate like Calgary. I could not imagine coming out of SAIT today to a cold electric car and eat up power to heat it, one would think that would eat a huge portion of the battery.
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01-28-2018, 04:12 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
As a matter of fact there is not one gas station left in downtown Vancouver. There are however a lot of charging stations
The bottom line is they will succeed due entirely to the fact that they are so much cheaper to own and operate ( about 1/10th).
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Yup, thst is true. Not single gas station left in "Downtown vancouver". Of course "downtown" is only about 3.75 sq/km and doesn't even equate to 4% of the City; not to mention the rest of metro Vancouver... there is no shortage of gss stations. As for London, yes it will br electric vehicle only soon but they swiftly are moving towards no vehicles will be interesting. Won't even need charging stations.
With over 2 million new cars sold in Canada in 2017 and similar in 2016, and probably again this year that means there will be 5.8 million (assuming 3% were electric) fossil fuel burning vehicles on the road til 2030 (given average life expectancy. Unless the government forces it on us.
Electric cars will be the future. But not for a long time. Even then, it all it will be doing is changing the source of the polution from end user supplier (unless the reported advancements in cold fusion are real)
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01-28-2018, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
What kind of KWH is needed to be equivalent to my chipped diesel that gets 900km a tank, and keep me warm in -40?
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You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????
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01-28-2018, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,240
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Scott, I think your '?' key may be stuck...maybe turn your keyboard upside down and bang it on your Xbox oe something, there may be a bit of Doritos stuck in there....
You're welcome.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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01-28-2018, 04:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????
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That's right it's plugged in. Tell me how much a block heater draws?
Cost about $115 to fill. How much would it cost to juice up a battery with the same capabilities? Especially with projected electricity prices going through the roof?
Don't get me wrong, I know it's coming, but the tech just simply isn't feasible, and won't be for a few years.
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01-28-2018, 05:56 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Millet
Posts: 861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????
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Do you really think that once gas vehicles are gone that electricity will be cheap? Somebody's making money off it one way or another. Gas companies or electric we will pay. Try and keep it slightly cheaper to operate then the prices will go up. Parking in cities will be very costly . There will no free charging, only places doing this now is a publicity stunt. Cheap advertising. That's all that's happening with big companies commiting to green shift. Look at us we are buying electric vehicles that are not even close to being in production from companies selling products that can't be delivered.
Once electric vehicles Stop being subsidized then what? Already more expensive than comparable gas vehicle. In reality once they have be competitive to survive what will be the real operating costs? Will they be able to last 300000km without a battery or motor replacement? I'd say 80% of gas vehicles do that regularly with proper maintenance minus battery of course.
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01-28-2018, 06:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogie
Do you really think that once gas vehicles are gone that electricity will be cheap? Somebody's making money off it one way or another. Gas companies or electric we will pay. Try and keep it slightly cheaper to operate then the prices will go up. Parking in cities will be very costly . There will no free charging, only places doing this now is a publicity stunt. Cheap advertising. That's all that's happening with big companies commiting to green shift. Look at us we are buying electric vehicles that are not even close to being in production from companies selling products that can't be delivered.
Once electric vehicles Stop being subsidized then what? Already more expensive than comparable gas vehicle. In reality once they have be competitive to survive what will be the real operating costs? Will they be able to last 300000km without a battery or motor replacement? I'd say 80% of gas vehicles do that regularly with proper maintenance minus battery of course.
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Speaking of batteries and replacing them. The simple lead acid battery for my forklift cost over $8k. I would hate to know what it costs to replace a fancy lithium battery in a car.
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01-28-2018, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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You don't buy new batteries. In 6 years you throw the batteries and the car I the landfill.
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01-28-2018, 07:34 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
You had better have that diesel plugged into a electric plug in or you aren't going any where in -40. By the way, what would it cost you to fill that "chipped " diesel ??????
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My diesel has an Espar. Starts just fine in -40 with no electricity. Any colder leaving it run all night works pretty good as well. Easy to sleep with the cummins purring outside over night. Comforting...
As much as Scott H from north van would like to have us believe the internal combustion engine's days are numbered, they are going to be around for a long time yet.
I won't see the days of electric construction, agricultural, mining, logging, oilfield, ect... equipment, as well as the vehicles that carry the required personal to those job sites. Sorry to burst your bubble Scott, but that's the way it is. You wanna cruise around downtown vancouver in an electric car, more power to ya. I could care less. Not a bad thing really. Electricity is needed, and in order to produce that electricity, more hydrocarbons are needed to fire the generating stations that are making it. Drive away Scott...do your part in keeping the oilpatch (and coal mines) going.
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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