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  #91  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:45 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
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Originally Posted by roper1 View Post
Jamie you're missing the likelihood of it costing 8 figures more than it returns. You're forgetting nat gas went on a tear after '88, nothing, repeat nothing to do with Olympics.

You're missing the probability of higher home & corporate taxes, after you're buddy Nenshi walks the plank. You're forgetting the guy who was elected mayor before & after '88 was very fiscally prudent, who then ran the province likewise.
Higher taxes are not a probability, they are a certainty. This mayor and his councils have raised property taxes well above the inflation rates every year (usually by 2 or 3 points or more). Not counting election years of course....go figure.

What do you think will happen to the tax rate with what could be a 10 figure bill and being on the hook for cost overruns?
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  #92  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:03 AM
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Financial track record of Olympics isn't good.

https://business.financialpost.com/o...an-you-feel-it

I remember when the Vancouver winter olympics was first talked about, it was going to cost 800 million. Final bill was 7 billion.

Far as I can see the olympics are nothing more than a way to launder taxpayers money into friends of government contractors and investors pockets with nothing for the ordinary tax payer but short term jobs on the project and low paying jobs during the two week spectacle.
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  #93  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Financial track record of Olympics isn't good.

https://business.financialpost.com/o...an-you-feel-it

I remember when the Vancouver winter olympics was first talked about, it was going to cost 800 million. Final bill was 7 billion.

Far as I can see the olympics are nothing more than a way to launder taxpayers money into friends of government contractors and investors pockets with nothing for the ordinary tax payer but short term jobs on the project and low paying jobs during the two week spectacle.
Hey Jamie, check out this link and then bring your numbers to the table as an effective counterpoint, if you have one.

Or anyone else who's in favor of this bid from an economic standpoint for that matter.

Pom pom wavers and cheerleaders need not apply. Touchy feely warm fuzzies are nice but it don't pay the debt.

If you don't think there's a better use for the billions of dollars from an economic stimulus basis then you're just missing the boat
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  #94  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:37 AM
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If it's the Olympics or give hundreds of millions away to charities/foreign governments, paying for childcare and holidays, buying old, used jets, an obsolete drone, "artwork", etc., I'll take the Olympics every time. Especially if Calgarians are paying for a third of it!
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  #95  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:08 PM
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If it's the Olympics or give hundreds of millions away to charities/foreign governments, paying for childcare and holidays, buying old, used jets, an obsolete drone, "artwork", etc., I'll take the Olympics every time. Especially if Calgarians are paying for a third of it!
Elect fiscally responsible governments and it could/should be neither.
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  #96  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:30 PM
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Elect fiscally responsible governments and it could/should be neither.
I’ve never heard of something like this ,is it a real thing ?
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  #97  
Old 10-14-2018, 01:12 PM
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I’ve never heard of something like this ,is it a real thing ?
You don't recall when Alberta had budget surpluses? You don't recall when civic tax increases were on par or below the rate of inflation? Happened fairly regularly in the past. You must be too young and think deficit spending is standard procedure.

The electorate just have to get their collective heads out of their hiney and demand fiscal responsibility from elected officials instead of asking for everything as a handout from the government. Although I don't think I'll live long enough to see it.
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  #98  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:20 PM
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I find the entire idea that I, as a non-resident of Calgary has to support the provinces richest city in an endeavor that has zero benefits to the majority of the province and for that matter the nation. In fact, I doubt there are any true benefits to the residents of Calgary. The only entity that stands to truly benefit is the corrupt IOC.
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  #99  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Trochu View Post
If it's the Olympics or give hundreds of millions away to charities/foreign governments, paying for childcare and holidays, buying old, used jets, an obsolete drone, "artwork", etc., I'll take the Olympics every time. Especially if Calgarians are paying for a third of it!

I'm all for the Olympics if not one cent of ALBERTA and Canada tax payer money goes towards it. If Calgary and the immediate area think it's a great idea then by all means...fund it yourselves and swing away.

Great way for Nenshi to get around building a new arena funded by Calgary only though. Wonder if Calgary residents will be good enough to retroactively toss some cash up to Edmonton to help cover our new arena. Fair is fair right.

Socialist provincial government with socialist big city mayor = spend spend spend money we/they don't have.
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Last edited by 270person; 10-14-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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  #100  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
I'm all for the Olympics if not one cent of ALBERTA and Canada tax payer money goes towards it. If Calgary and the immediate area think it's a great idea then by all means...fund it yourselves and swing away.

Great way for Nenshi to get around building a new arena funded by Calgary only though. Wonder if Calgary residents will be good enough to retroactively toss some cash up to Edmonton to help cover our new arena. Fair is fair right.

Socialist provincial government with socialist big city mayor = spend spend spend money we/they don't have.
If I'm not mistaken provincial money for sure and possibly some Federal money went into Edmonton's arena so I don't think you'll be getting more from Calgarians than you've already got.
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  #101  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by YYC338 View Post
Hey Jamie, check out this link and then bring your numbers to the table as an effective counterpoint, if you have one.

Or anyone else who's in favor of this bid from an economic standpoint for that matter.

Pom pom wavers and cheerleaders need not apply. Touchy feely warm fuzzies are nice but it don't pay the debt.

If you don't think there's a better use for the billions of dollars from an economic stimulus basis then you're just missing the boat
Tokyo just went up again.

https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/o...e-cost-overrun

Grizz
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  #102  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:01 PM
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But, but but, this is Calgary and we can do anything! Or some people would have you believe that anyway.
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  #103  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:07 PM
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If I'm not mistaken provincial money for sure and possibly some Federal money went into Edmonton's arena so I don't think you'll be getting more from Calgarians than you've already got.

I think there's a very good chance you are mistaken.

Same holds here. Zero provincial, federal, or any other non-Calgarian taxpayer coin should be going towards something as useless as a 2 week sideshow.

Next on the list - province paying for the stampede?
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Last edited by 270person; 10-14-2018 at 03:13 PM.
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  #104  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
I think there's a very good chance you are mistaken.

Same holds here. Zero provincial, federal, or any other non-Calgarian taxpayer coin should be going towards something as useless as a 2 week sideshow.

Next on the list - province paying for the stampede?
I stand corrected, Edmonton lobbied hard for provincial funding but the new NDP government wouldn't come through, although I believe Edmonton was lead to believe there would be provincial money forthcoming from the previous government.

I agree, there's much better uses for taxpayer money than funding the winter party. Best use would be leaving it in the taxpayers pocket for starters.
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  #105  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:27 PM
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Maybe if the 80% revenue went to the host and not the by-stander (IOC) it might be some what salvageable. Why does the IOC need that amount? People are real silly if they think the IOC is worthy of it. Give us the provincial and federal money's they're willing to cough up and see if we can't generate some long term income. Willing to spew out billions on watching some games but not willing to help the ones in need. KEEP YOUR GAMES DON"T NEED OR WANT. The higher ups and the mucky mucks will love us for our participation of paying for years to come.
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  #106  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
I think there's a very good chance you are mistaken.

Same holds here. Zero provincial, federal, or any other non-Calgarian taxpayer coin should be going towards something as useless as a 2 week sideshow.

Next on the list - province paying for the stampede?
Province gave 7.7 Million last year alone to the Stampede. It's right on the Stampede's website.

There must be some benefits to these big "legacy" events.
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  #107  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:53 PM
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Province gave 7.7 Million last year alone to the Stampede. It's right on the Stampede's website.

There must be some benefits to these big "legacy" events.
Yes and it happens (STAMPEDE) every year. Generates money for business every year for $$$$$$$$$$ dollars. So your Olympics after 30 yrs (1988) of not being here how much has it generated? And what will it generate after it's gone? Let some other sucker city have it. Some of the best winter athletes in the world come from Finland Switzerland and countless other European countries. Why are they not in the running for host. Smarter with they're $$$$$$$$$$$ I guess. Way cheaper to send athletes to compete. Let's put some of that money into our athletic training and send them.
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  #108  
Old 10-14-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by YYC338 View Post
You don't recall when Alberta had budget surpluses? You don't recall when civic tax increases were on par or below the rate of inflation? Happened fairly regularly in the past. You must be too young and think deficit spending is standard procedure.

The electorate just have to get their collective heads out of their hiney and demand fiscal responsibility from elected officials instead of asking for everything as a handout from the government. Although I don't think I'll live long enough to see it.
Past is the past. I cannot see current government doing anything but tax and spend regardless of what the people say.Would love to see it and try and vote accordingly .
For the record I spent my Ralph bucks responsibly.
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  #109  
Old 10-14-2018, 05:25 PM
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The City and the Flames are headed back to the table to discuss the new arena.
My spidey sense says that if they reach a deal, the arena will be built in time for the Olympics but cost of the arena will not be included in the Olympic budget.
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  #110  
Old 10-14-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by happy honker View Post
Province gave 7.7 Million last year alone to the Stampede. It's right on the Stampede's website.

There must be some benefits to these big "legacy" events.


All of these events need to stand on their own feet or hit the road. Stampede is no different than an art gallery, concert hall, etc. Non essential. Privatize them and if nobody steps up to own then that just shows their real world worth as business ventures.

Stampede should definitely be able to exist on it's own. Lots of advertising ops and if that or private money doesn't cover it...oh well. Calgarians will just have to find another venue to dress up in costumes and drink.
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Last edited by 270person; 10-14-2018 at 06:11 PM.
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  #111  
Old 10-14-2018, 06:16 PM
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I stand corrected, Edmonton lobbied hard for provincial funding but the new NDP government wouldn't come through, although I believe Edmonton was lead to believe there would be provincial money forthcoming from the previous government.


I'd question that as well. Katz and the city covered the initial costs with Katz renting the building from the city. Most of the remainder will come from ticket taxes.
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  #112  
Old 10-14-2018, 06:26 PM
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I'd question that as well. Katz and the city covered the initial costs with Katz renting the building from the city. Most of the remainder will come from ticket taxes.
Lots of print stories online of the city lobbying the provincial government for funding. New (NDP) gov said no way. They went the route they did because they couldn't get prov funding. Final funding model was not the city's first choice or plan.
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  #113  
Old 10-14-2018, 06:54 PM
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One thing that's always touted as a benefit is the 'legacy" projects.

What if any are the benefits of having a training and competition facility for things like a speed skating, the sliding events center (whatever that place at C.O.P. is called)

Do these places have long-lasting jobs after the events are gone? Coaching and training staffs, support and maintenance etc.

Also is there any benefit to these venues hosting events for years to come such as world cups, amateur meets, national and international competitions etc.
Those events put money back into the economy as well via hotels, restaurants, physio clinics and research facilities that exist around these places that have spinoff benefits into the community.

What do people in B.C. say about the aftermath of the 2010 Olympics? Was it a financial disaster they are still in financial ruin because of? I imagine a great deal of public money went into those games.

I'm all for the games coming to Calgary again, but not if the money is spent irresponsibly and poorly organized.
I'd like to hear more about the legacy projects and any vision to ensure local companies get as many of the contracts as possible.
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  #114  
Old 10-14-2018, 07:24 PM
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With the fiscal state of this province I hope this does not go forward. Historically budgets are never met -- Salt Lake was 25% over, Vancouver 15% with quite a bit of other costs that were needed but not attributed directly to the final budget.

Facilities that are left are often not of a high standard of construction and need repairs so the taxpayer gets touched again. While the glitter seems nice to reach for it will come with a significant price tag.
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  #115  
Old 10-14-2018, 07:42 PM
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For what the final costs of the Olympics will be we could have a pipeline to the coast that would pour billions into this province for decades. Society has it's priorities so screwed up we don't know whether we're coming or going. Wanting to spend billions on a two week spectacle that over half of the population isn't interested in watching on TV let alone actually attend even if they could afford it. Doesn't make much sense to me.
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  #116  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:07 PM
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Lots of print stories online of the city lobbying the provincial government for funding. New (NDP) gov said no way. They went the route they did because they couldn't get prov funding. Final funding model was not the city's first choice or plan.

I hear you but the point is...there was no provincial or federal tax money into it. whether they asked or not is moot. City promised their share would not come from tax increases. Instead it's largely user pay which is what all of these events should be.
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  #117  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by happy honker View Post
One thing that's always touted as a benefit is the 'legacy" projects.

What if any are the benefits of having a training and competition facility for things like a speed skating, the sliding events center (whatever that place at C.O.P. is called)

Do these places have long-lasting jobs after the events are gone? Coaching and training staffs, support and maintenance etc.

Also is there any benefit to these venues hosting events for years to come such as world cups, amateur meets, national and international competitions etc.
Those events put money back into the economy as well via hotels, restaurants, physio clinics and research facilities that exist around these places that have spinoff benefits into the community.


I'd like to hear more about the legacy projects and any vision to ensure local companies get as many of the contracts as possible.

Nakiska was a legacy project. Has it been used for anything of consequence since? Why the 88 Olympics needed a venue outside of Lake Louise is anyone's guess. Parks wouldn't allow that many spectators I guess but it resulted in a p*** poor facility being built for BIG dollars. And of course we still have Olympic Stadium in Montreal. That dump wasn't paid off until 2006....30 years after the Olympics.

Coaching, training staffs, etc? Aren't they paid out of the federal governments, spelled OUR, coffers?

Some times these venues end up providing better training for our country's athletes but quite honestly...who cares? If we win 30 gold medals at the next winter Olympics those are pretty expensive pieces of tin. I'd probably manage to sleep at night if we only won 1 or 2.

The Olympics have become a shining example of greed and bureaucracy at it's finest. I wonder what benefits Brazilian's have realized?
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  #118  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:35 AM
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Nenshi is the Big problem. It's all about his legacy. The Flames proposed a great building, maybe the wrong site. Nenshi was quick to kibosh that. A few months later he proposed a new rink, no football stadium, no practice rink, no field house like Flames proposed, on land the Stampede Board owns in an area he proposed to be an arts and entertainment area in Victoria Park. Another Nenshi legacy.

We do not have all the information and do not know the true costs. Security in 2026 is supposed to cost less than in Vancouver in 2010? Yet events will be held in Calgary, Canmore and Whistler? Maybe Edmonton? I call BS!

If they don't come clean, I'm voting no!
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  #119  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:28 AM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
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I hear you but the point is...there was no provincial or federal tax money into it.
I believe I said that.
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  #120  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:12 AM
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I'd question that as well. Katz and the city covered the initial costs with Katz renting the building from the city. Most of the remainder will come from ticket taxes.
Katz didn't cover anything

he owned the land, which the city bought from him, for around 30 million

that's what he put up

the rest is all backloaded, thru rent, ect...

it's all on the city website


as for the Olympics, we shouldn't even be participating at all

they're a corrupt organization

they should be paying for the games, let the Olympic Organizing committee take the risk, with their corporate partners

there's a reason why no one is bidding anymore on these events

cause it's been studied many times, THEY DON'T MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE
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