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10-05-2018, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,246
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is carbon dioxide pollution?
Simple question (because I'm watching a political stooge talking about the carbon tax and opposition to it, and he has used the term 'pollution' or tax on pollution' no less than 15 times....twice more since I started typing this....and twice more)...
In biology class I learned that humans breathe and function on oxygen, and plants breathe and function on carbon dioxide, to simplify it....so when did it become a vile pollution, earth destroying like sulfur emissions causing acid rain, or CFC destroying the ozone, or....? Or is it just a heavy brainwash to justify another tax?
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
Last edited by Twisted Canuck; 10-05-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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10-05-2018, 06:31 PM
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But where are you watching this go down?
Ya plants just love pollution...
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10-05-2018, 06:37 PM
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I know Willy, you swore off MSM, and that's all fine and well. It's beside the point. If you are going to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, it might be good to pay attention to their plans and strategies too. Try to keep on point. Is CO2 pollution, or not? If not, why is our democratically elected government so hell bent on taxing it's citizens because 'it has a mandate'? Is it going to save the planet? Rhetorical question, I know...
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I know Willy, you swore off MSM, and that's all fine and well. It's beside the point. If you are going to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, it might be good to pay attention to their plans and strategies too. Try to keep on point. Is CO2 pollution, or not? If not, why is our democratically elected government so hell bent on taxing it's citizens because 'it has a mandate'? Is it going to save the planet? Rhetorical question, I know...
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Does Hockey night in Canada count as MSM?...i do cheat a little, and you're right i love to go out of my way to get along with those that i disagree with,i was just wondering what your watching so i could check it out.
CO2 is NOT pollution, nonsense.
I think you can guess who i blame for the propaganda without me having to state it?...these plans all relate to the United Nations agenda 21 and 2030 for plans for "sustainable development".
At 7:15 Trublow makes an appearance!
Let the accusation's, insinuation's and insult's rain...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EapLBCg6rpc
Last edited by ReconWilly; 10-05-2018 at 07:12 PM.
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10-05-2018, 07:13 PM
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Thank you. That's on point. Agree.
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 07:32 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,246
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Another guy I've quite enjoyed listening to is climatologist Roy Spencer...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=623s&v=QNafpG3KvbQ
He has quite a few informative videos a person could learn a thing or two from....
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
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CO2 is not classified as pollution but excess CO2 is harmful to everything just like too much food is to a person. In regular quantities CO2 is easily one of the most important things for our survival but just like food excess is not.
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10-05-2018, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roughneckin
CO2 is not classified as pollution but excess CO2 is harmful to everything just like too much food is to a person. In regular quantities CO2 is easily one of the most important things for our survival but just like food excess is not.
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Ok, define excess, in terms of atmospheric percentage. Compared to Nitrogen, oxygen, and all the other gases that make us chuckle.
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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I googled and saw 250-350ppm is normal outside air. 350-1000ppm is normal for rooms full of people with air exchange. 1000-2000ppm are when people complain of drowsiness.
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10-05-2018, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
Ok, define excess, in terms of atmospheric percentage. Compared to Nitrogen, oxygen, and all the other gases that make us chuckle.
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Here ya go, better for someone else to explain it than my garbled jargon.
“1000 to 2000 ppm, the air quality is low. From 2000 to 5000 ppm, CO2 concentration starts to cause problems (headaches, insomnia, nausea). It is a dirty air. From 5000 ppm, the presence of other gases in air is altered, arising a toxic atmosphere or poor in oxygen with fatal effects as the concentration increases.”
Basically if you saturate the area with CO2 and it isn’t depleted or dealt with than their is less of the remaining gases. We enjoy a fine balanced amount of each really that we thrive at.
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10-05-2018, 08:04 PM
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Perfect, I accept those numbers. So, since the planet isn't in a congested room full of people, what are current CO2 levels at, expressed as a global concentration? And would that qualify as 'pollution'?
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 08:10 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
Perfect, I accept those numbers. So, since the planet isn't in a congested room full of people, what are current CO2 levels at, expressed as a global concentration? And would that qualify as 'pollution'?
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We’re sitting at 410ppm from last I saw.
I’m not sure where your going with this. You asked if CO2 was pollution and everyone has said no so how would we quantify a concentration where it is? It’s not pollution, it’s just not good in excess. Just like food isn’t pollution but excess is not helping for sure.
If you want to talk just global warming that’s a different topic all together.
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10-05-2018, 08:15 PM
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I'm just wonderering the justification for taxing it as a pollutant (and by extension as a contributor to global warming), it we are currently at a fraction of where it is considered poor air quality, less than 20% of where it starts to be a problem? Why is this generating billions in economic suppression and taxation? Just curious.....does it really save the planet from a toxic pollutant if I pay an extra $.07 per litre for fuel at the pump? Or the extra on my natural gas for heating my home? Is it a pollutant, or just a way for an ideologically driven government to take away wealth?
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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I'm just waiting for the day when you pass gas and they send a bill to your house.
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10-05-2018, 08:31 PM
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I just can't grasp how CO2 can be expressed as a pollutant....humans have the luxury of a 21% oxygen content in the atmosphere....and the poor plants that need CO2 to survive get their fix expressed in parts per million...but if those go up a few little parts per million, a tiny fraction expressed as a percentage (which it never is) suddenly, everyone needs to be concerned, and enlightened progressive countries need to tax their compliant citizens in not insignificant amounts, in order to...what? Save the planet? Keep all the plants from growing too big? If we teach kids from kindergarten on that this is a terrifying threat, and all the bad adults must be taxed to save the planet for them....does it make it true?
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
Last edited by Twisted Canuck; 10-05-2018 at 08:36 PM.
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10-05-2018, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
In biology class I learned that humans breathe and function on oxygen, and plants breathe and function on carbon dioxide, to simplify it....so when did it become a vile pollution, earth destroying like sulfur emissions causing acid rain, or CFC destroying the ozone, or....? Or is it just a heavy brainwash to justify another tax?
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The explanation can be found in any 4th grade science textbook printed since 1860. Your pretend ignorance is transparent and pathetic.
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10-05-2018, 08:39 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetwaiter
The explanation can be found in any 4th grade science textbook printed since 1860. Your pretend ignorance is transparent and pathetic.
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Speaking about pathetic ^^^^^
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The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
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10-05-2018, 08:44 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetwaiter
The explanation can be found in any 4th grade science textbook printed since 1860. Your pretend ignorance is transparent and pathetic.
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Sorry my pretend offended and is pathetic, and not sophisticated like climate Barbie's rhetoric. I hereby pledge to reduce my part per trillion of CO2 that I contribute to the atmosphere as a form of penance, and will happily pay appropriate taxes where they can be proven to save the planet. Are we good?
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
Speaking about pathetic ^^^^^
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Here’s John Tyndal’s Book on thermodynamics. Take notice of the publication date please.
https://archive.org/details/heatcons...nduoft/page/n9
This is taught in elementary schools! If you really don’t understand that the make up of the atmosphere changes how solar radiation effects the planet it’s on you.
Last edited by midgetwaiter; 10-05-2018 at 08:49 PM.
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10-05-2018, 08:49 PM
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The earth or mother nature emits 750 gigi tons of c02 . Humans emit 35 gigi tons of co2. Per year . Problem comes before humans the earth was balanced . Or close. Emiting the same as it absorbs . Co2 has risen from 300 pp to 410ppm . Scientists have proven that co2 slows heat from leaving the planet . Interesting is the fact that h2o vapour is 4 times more effective at insulating the planet than co2. I find it intrresting scientists that have nothing to gain by agreeing or denying all agree climate change is from co2 .
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10-05-2018, 08:54 PM
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So, it IS a pollutant! Isn't it? Or is it...? Maybe define pollutant? There's a place to start. Or skip it, and tax me.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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10-05-2018, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
So, it IS a pollutant! Isn't it? Or is it...? Maybe define pollutant? There's a place to start. Or skip it, and tax me.
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I would say no . Definatley a grey area .
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10-05-2018, 09:04 PM
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co2 levels over the last 425 million years
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...1CZGQFX68_RkP0
we are at a low point in actual co2
sooo i vote tax grab
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the more people i meet the better i like my dog
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10-05-2018, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
So, it IS a pollutant! Isn't it? Or is it...? Maybe define pollutant? There's a place to start. Or skip it, and tax me.
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This obtuse reductionist stuff is pointless. Our world does not line up into pretty little boxes like that.
Consider this:
Urine is a natural biproduct of living things. The nitrogen contained within is a critical nutrient for plant growth. Mind if I pee in your coffee?
That’s the same “logic” you are trying to apply here, it’s silly.
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10-05-2018, 09:43 PM
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Good point midget waiter.
Another way to look at it. We would die without water and salt . Drink two cups of sea water and youre in trouble.
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10-05-2018, 09:52 PM
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Bottom line is we are essentially littering. You dont leave wrappers out in the Bush do you? Do you leave your trash in the middle of the street? Nope pay taxes to take it away. Same thing here.
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10-05-2018, 10:09 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgill808
I'm just waiting for the day when you pass gas and they send a bill to your house.
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Actually California has passed or is trying to pass a law to tax cow farts.....So our turn is coming...
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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10-05-2018, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESOXangler
Bottom line is we are essentially littering. You dont leave wrappers out in the Bush do you? Do you leave your trash in the middle of the street? Nope pay taxes to take it away. Same thing here.
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Who is taking the CO2 away and how? where is the CO2 going now that the tax is being levied?
Can't we just give everyone tax incentive's to plant and grow tree's and spread them around so that nature can naturally convert the excess CO2 safely back into into oxygen?
Seem's like nature has a built in solution, it's a simple balancing issue that needs correcting, tax initiative's to fund mega mass transit system's and smart meter's that rely on more electric infrastructure only make the problem worse.
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10-05-2018, 10:29 PM
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The real issue is what gov't does with the sin tax they're collecting. They're not efficient with it and they're lining the pockets of their cronies. If they were as efficient as the Salvation Army with our finances I think that many more would be on board with it. But they're not, and its an outright virtue-signalling tax grab. If its not instituted globally at the same time its only going to kill us economically. I guess these folks just prefer guaranteed economic suicide to risking what the chicken little's tell them might happen.
Of course we have an effect on our planet and should try to improve all the things we do to it, I just don't agree that racing to commit economic seppuku is the answer.
Picture this, 4 more consecutive terms of federal Liberals. Carbon taxes out the wazoo, utterly dead economy, zero manufacturing sector as that's long since flown to other nations with lower cost structures. The armed forces only got new icebreaking coastal vessels and some snow shovels for the pervious 12 years and then some nation with a huge army thinks our shuttered oil reserves look tempting......
Its a nation-killing tax.
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10-05-2018, 10:35 PM
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Good lord. Our P.M. is going to be taxed to death. He's full of...... tax
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Huntinstuff
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norwestalta
.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!
LC
"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......
when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.
Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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