Crowsnest River has run dry?

[densa44]

I'm floating around the south pole right now and I hear from home that the Crowsnest has run dry. I hope that is not true, but I know that it could be.

Lundbreck falls depends on that river not to mention one of the world's best trout streams.

What next?

[Samik]

Don't know about the river, but I'm down on the ice too. You in Macktown, or a tourist?

[HappyShootMore]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/calgaryh...626b66bc3/amp/

[59whiskers]

Trudeau desires to double the Canadian population in the next 25 years. The UPC is on the same page. Not sustainable at this rate.

[roper1]

Scary situation.

[-JR-]

Not good at all . We need more snow and more rain this year !

[pgavey]

Low but not dry.

[lannie]

Doesn't look any lower than any other year in February. Most of the water in the Crowsnest river is spring water.

[urban rednek]

This report may be useful when comparing historical data on the Crowsnest River.
164 pages titled "Crowsnest River watershed aquifer mapping and groundwater management planning study TWPS 006 to 009, RGES 01 to 06 W5 Alberta"
It was submitted to the Oldman Watershed Council in March 2013.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...26+Groundwater

[CNP]

I'm laughing at this. The Crow is not dry. Not at risk of going dry. The current flow rate measured at Frank is 1.3 cubic metres per second (roughly 15,850 GPM). There is lots of snow in the mountains. Somebody has a gifted imagination.

[Drewski Canuck]

Unless you have a chinook blow through and some run off that does not go into the air by evaporation, all winter flows will be from springs and the flow from storage areas like beaver dams, irrigation dams and lakes with year round flow.

So for the Crowsnest to go dry is possible.

If ALL Industrial users took their allotment of the water licences downstream from Fort McMurray, the Athabasca River also would go dry.

So lets look at how to fix the problem, which means trying to capture ground water in the recharge areas to feed the springs all winter long.

Pumping ground water out will hurt the water table eventually. After successive drought years, the water table keeps dropping and the springs run dry. 100 foot water wells can be "dusters" requiring drilling to 200 foot to reach water. That is a declining water table.

Back in the late 2000's the St. Paul area received a record 18 inches or rain one summer. The lakes came up in the fall by 1 inch. Why? The ground had been so dry for so long that all the rain was absorbed into the ground, or the connected aquifers to the lake beds had to be recharged to saturation before the lake level could finally rise.

Only after saturation and recharge of the water table was there going to be any over land run off.

So quit ditching the low spots in the land for convenient farming. Encourage water retention and absorption were possible, even if it means drilling recharge wells.

The low spots are natural recharge areas to the aquifers and these are the eventual springs that give the winter flow to the rivers.

A hard lesson to learn, but perhaps the lesson will finally "sink" in with the local planning authorities in the Counties, and the towns that rely on the water.

But to prove the point, the San Juaquin Valley in California has SUNK as much as 28 feet in elevation because of continued pumping out of the ground water for farming. Las Vegas has dropped 8 feet as well.

Drewski

[densa44]

IME I have found that any problem that requires people to; smarten up, not be selfish/greedy or engage in long range planning will fail.

It is a shame.

[honda610]

Good point Drewski. My uncle who is 80 now and has over 9k acres of farm land. Almost never cleared bush or sloughs he always said those are needed. We need to look at taking percentages of run off and store or.make more reservoirs in the province. My quarter in Athabasca was floating last summer. Normal dry ground had 5 inches on top and it soaked in real fast. We need rain again thus spring. And some future planning.

[rem338win]

We've needed water and soil recovering programs for 40 years. The issue is we keep electing idiots because they're the only ones willing to politic with rare exception. So the idiots hire idiots that never leave.

The Crowsnest is low, and it's quite a bit lower than winter past. We are in a drought cycle, and it looks a lot like the 80s again. But contrary to our ideologues, the world isn't ending.

We just need to be responsible and stop a bunch of things we've decided we're now entitled to.

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Unless you have a chinook blow through and some run off that does not go into the air by evaporation, all winter flows will be from springs and the flow from storage areas like beaver dams, irrigation dams and lakes with year round flow.

So for the Crowsnest to go dry is possible.

If ALL Industrial users took their allotment of the water licences downstream from Fort McMurray, the Athabasca River also would go dry.

So lets look at how to fix the problem, which means trying to capture ground water in the recharge areas to feed the springs all winter long.

Pumping ground water out will hurt the water table eventually. After successive drought years, the water table keeps dropping and the springs run dry. 100 foot water wells can be "dusters" requiring drilling to 200 foot to reach water. That is a declining water table.

Back in the late 2000's the St. Paul area received a record 18 inches or rain one summer. The lakes came up in the fall by 1 inch. Why? The ground had been so dry for so long that all the rain was absorbed into the ground, or the connected aquifers to the lake beds had to be recharged to saturation before the lake level could finally rise.

Only after saturation and recharge of the water table was there going to be any over land run off.

So quit ditching the low spots in the land for convenient farming. Encourage water retention and absorption were possible, even if it means drilling recharge wells.

The low spots are natural recharge areas to the aquifers and these are the eventual springs that give the winter flow to the rivers.

A hard lesson to learn, but perhaps the lesson will finally "sink" in with the local planning authorities in the Counties, and the towns that rely on the water.

But to prove the point, the San Juaquin Valley in California has SUNK as much as 28 feet in elevation because of continued pumping out of the ground water for farming. Las Vegas has dropped 8 feet as well.

Drewski

San Joaquin

[Don Andersen]

Alberta has injected fresh water for Enhanced Oil Production for over 60 years at a rate of 1 bbl. Of oil = 1 bbl. Of water.
The CPR, who invented irrigation in Alberta dumped the whole thing on our Govt after realizing it was a money loosing boondoggle. We keep dumping money into a business which get free water, free infrastructure, destroys rivers, sterilizes land due to Salinization raising cows who crap on the ground at 60 lbs. each day (which is equivalent to 220,000,000 people).
It would make sense if we actually ate the all the products produced.

Don

[Esox]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Alberta has injected fresh water for Enhanced Oil Production for over 60 years at a rate of 1 bbl. Of oil = 1 bbl. Of water.
The CPR, who invented irrigation in Alberta dumped the whole thing on our Govt after realizing it was a money loosing boondoggle. We keep dumping money into a business which get free water, free infrastructure, destroys rivers, sterilizes land due to Salinization raising cows who crap on the ground at 60 lbs. each day (which is equivalent to 220,000,000 people).
It would make sense if we actually ate the all the products produced.

Don

There he is, I was waiting for Don to chime in. Im surprised you're not trying to blame it on fracing again like the Raven River.

[macee]

I would sure like to know where this free water is coming from.

[densa44]

I get that we have made mistakes, that's what people do, and then blame others, people do that too.

What would be helpful right now are ideas of what can be done so that we don't lose some of the best trout streams in Canada.

I have been laying out a line on the Castle and Crowsnest rivers for over 50 years and would like to keep it up.

Are there suggestions?

[Don Andersen]

And the 3 river dam would’ve cost $ 1.7 billion of taxpayers funds today.
Still waiting for my money back

[roper1]

Originally Posted by macee

I would sure like to know where this free water is coming from.

Now you'll confuse him with facts. Eleven different irrigation districts in Ab, big source of local jobs. Laying pipe annually to conserve water, reservoirs constructed for irrigation, recreation, and habitat. Generate a pile of Ag & commercial jobs & spin-off value.

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by roper1

Now you'll confuse him with facts. Eleven different irrigation districts in Ab, big source of local jobs. Laying pipe annually to conserve water, reservoirs constructed for irrigation, recreation, and habitat. Generate a pile of Ag & commercial jobs & spin-off value.

If the rest of us were not paying to keep you guys alive, you’d disappear.
Without Govt money, you are gone.
Vote UCP welfare!

Don

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

If the rest of us were not paying to keep you guys alive, you’d disappear.
Without Govt money, you are gone.
Vote UCP welfare!

Don

You grow or forage all your own food?

Hate to tell you but agriculture and farming is the whole reason we are no longer a nomadic society. Also a big reason why you actually have time to have hobbies like fly fishing

Could there be improvements to water management but a large portion of the reservoirs in Alberta only exist because of agriculture. There would be far less opportunity for Alberta anglers without it as well. You would also see higher concentrations of development near natural bodies of water without the irrigation that came with agriculture.

Seeking improvement I can respect but use common sense. People might take your position seriously then

The fact of the matter is we are presently in drought conditions and without Mother Nature lending a hand that is not going to change

But no matter the condition I have faith you will always have some kind of complaint

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

If the rest of us were not paying to keep you guys alive, you’d disappear.
Without Govt money, you are gone.
Vote UCP welfare!

Don

That's a bold opinion for an old person living in a country of public healthare.

[britman101]

Here is an interesting link which breaks down water use in Alberta.
Interesting information about how 20 percent of the water supply is within 200 kms of the US border. And how 80 percent of the population resides in that band of land. A long range plan on water management is needed they recommend.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7133575

[TheHotChili]

I sure hope not....The crowsnest river is a fun river to fish from Coleman to Blairmore and below Lundbreck Falls....even catching fish while people have been swimming and floating all around ...

[CNP]

Originally Posted by TheHotChili

I sure hope not....The crowsnest river is a fun river to fish from Coleman to Blairmore and below Lundbreck Falls....even catching fish while people have been swimming and floating all around ...

It's not dry. Not going dry. There is lots of snow in the mountains. It looks like it has for the past 50 years. The story published in the media is fantasy.........people creating stories to fit their narrative? I can't explain it otherwise.

[Berniebeag]

Couldn't agree more CNP. That headline is completely false, whoever wrote that should be ashamed of themselves. I guess these days most articles in media do not require any truth or facts. Been here over 20 years and the river sure looks like it is at the typical level for this time of year.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Berniebeag

Couldn't agree more CNP. That headline is completely false, whoever wrote that should be ashamed of themselves. I guess these days most articles in media do not require any truth or facts. Been here over 20 years and the river sure looks like it is at the typical level for this time of year.

Couldn't agree more.

Copy and Paste, spread the fear....

BW

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by CNP

It's not dry. Not going dry. There is lots of snow in the mountains. It looks like it has for the past 50 years. The story published in the media is fantasy.........people creating stories to fit their narrative? I can't explain it otherwise.

I agree with you, but to be fair, the snow pack is garbage this year. I work in the area and can say it’s not like what it was 10-15 years ago.