Legalize drugs.....

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by tonka

If we banning all drugs we better do caffeine as-well because it is 100% addictive and the body become reliant on it. Alchol needs to go as well. We better get rid of adrenaline sports as well cause that rush can get you hooked. codeine, nasal spray, cough syrup, wake up pills, sleeping pills, Viagra (yup you become physiologically hooked)

Now you are getting desperate to believe your own story by lumping caffeine with pot, meth, crack, etc.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

drug don't decide to do themselves, people who do them are accountable for their actions.

what about a baby born with a crack addiction? is the baby accountable?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by outwalking

What about using the hemp plant for an alternate resource? Fuel, paper, fabric, rope, food, medicine.

No active ingredient...or if I specifically recall you would need like a ton of hemp to make a weak joint.

Hemp is a great renewable resource.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Tosh

what about a baby born with a crack addiction? is the baby accountable?

now you are taking it too far, obviously the mother is accountable and should have the baby taken away from her,you are lumping crack in with pot and the 2 are not the same, I know casual pot smoker who are functioning members of society I don't know any crack head who are.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

drug don't decide to do themselves, people who do them are accountable for their actions.

So someone doing drugs and supporting other drug dealers selling to kids...what should the punishment be for the user?

You say a crack mother is accountable... How about a pot head? You know lots of pot heads...hiding is suburbia supporting drug dealer networks. I guess it is the kids fault the dealer was in the neighborhood selling to you when he was convinced to try his first hit on a dare from your son that new you smoked it so it must be okay...choice and all.

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by Tosh

what about a baby born with a crack addiction? is the baby accountable?

The mother is, and should lose her parenting privleges. The child would then be moved to a proper environment. How the hell is a newborn going to light a crack pipe, let alone score crack?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

I guess I resent the fact that through some parts of society I need to find god to be a decent human being, when I know alot of people who preach the word of god everyday, and or were the scum of the earth wife beaters former alcoholics who left their children cold with no food to be with the girlfriends/boyfriends, words are meaningless actions always speak louder.

I have never once tried a cigarette, never tried ANY illegal drugs.



There are very few things that frighten me; death, being alone, losing my family and friends, not being able to provide for them, and thinking that when I die that is the very end, no memories, nothing.

And I still do not need illegal narcotics to make things all rosy and sunny.

Why should anyone else?

Ya ya, "my body, my money, nanny state, blah blah blah".

[gl2]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

now you are taking it too far, obviously the mother is accountable and should have the baby taken away from her,you are lumping crack in with pot and the 2 are not the same, I know casual pot smoker who are functioning members of society I don't know any crack head who are.

the people i know that are productive functioning members of society don't use illegal drugs......maybe time for for you to get to know other functioning members of society.....

[tonka]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You missed the ILLEGAL drug part of the debate LOL.

Medical needs are different as the drug is prescribed.

if the prohibition crowd had their way no medical would exist no benefits would have been found. Now in done I am not out to legalize pot or reform the laws. I'm legal and that's that. I only interjected because there is a great deal of misinformation by both sides. Prohibition has been a failure. Legalization will not fix the problem either. It does not matter if its an off label use of a legal drug or an illegal drug, people will find ways. If we want to fix the problem we need to fix the root cause. The broken family, the lack of community, the overall decline in social capital, and the lack of good will to others.
Wishes someone death or bodily harm because they smoked pot is not a great start to rebuilding society.


And to the original post the ****K Head held her up should be put alone in a room for five minutes with someone to scare him as bad a he scared the poor girl.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If you are suggesting...let's decriminalize drugs and let druggies kill themselves ignoring that we may be encouraging others to start...then you must accept a higher probability of that guy coming towards you on the highway is stoned on something. Is that a risk that you (regardless of what the rest of society wants) are happily willing to make for you and your family?

I already take the risk that the guy driving towards me is drunk. Would you outlaw alcohol? Besides, there are laws against driving stoned and drunk. If a fellow will ignore those he will ignore laws that say he can't get high in the first place. SundanceF, you should know better than to trot out arguments that antis use against us (ban guns so that murderers won't use guns).

Look, I'm not necessarily against keeping drugs illegal. I'd just like opponents to fess up and say "yes, I realize I'm being a hypocrite and criminalizing it goes against everything we argue about personal liberty, rights, and responsibility with regard to gun laws. I just want government to step in and take care of us". LOL

[gl2]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

The mother is, and should lose her parenting privleges. The child would then be moved to a proper environment. How the hell is a newborn going to light a crack pipe, let alone score crack?

i was just stating that people who do drugs are not accountable at all.... they are the first ones to hurt people without regret and very few get the punishment to fit the crime.....just another way society is fawked up.

[tonka]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You should stop smoking pot when posting...cause you are advocating to do drugs. You should read your own posts or have a family member read them for you. Maybe a little intervention is needed cause your problem is getting out of control as you valiantly defend your right to freely do illegal drugs...

Well actually i have not smoked pot in days (only need it when the pain in the wrist keeps me from sleeping) and IM LEGAL i have piece of paper that says so, signed sealed and delivered. Just because you think something is wrong does not mean the whole world needs to have the same opinion.

[tonka]

Drugs may be addictive, no scratch that are, but nobody put a crack pipe or meth, or heroin in the users mouth and lit it. It was a choice, a choice that can have dire consequences, and horrible results.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

. I have never once tried a cigarette, never tried ANY illegal drugs. ".

good for you ken....just means you are smarter than most of us.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Tosh

the people i know that are productive functioning members of society don't use illegal drugs......maybe time for for you to get to know other functioning members of society.....

so engineers with engineering degrees are not functioning members of society?

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I already take the risk that the guy driving towards me is drunk. Would you outlaw alcohol? Besides, there are laws against driving stoned and drunk. If a fellow will ignore those he will ignore laws that say he can't get high in the first place. SundanceF, you should know better than to trot out arguments that antis use against us (ban guns so that murderers won't use guns).

Look, I'm not necessarily against keeping drugs illegal. I'd just like opponents to fess up and say "yes, I realize I'm being a hypocrite and criminalizing it goes against everything we argue about personal liberty, rights, and responsibility with regard to gun laws. I just want government to step in and take care of us". LOL

I agree with okie here it's not that I think drugs are good it's that people are supposed to be free, whats the difference between a case of beer or a bottle of whiskey every night and a guy who smokes a joint?? to me nothing,same with people who take oxy's or prozac or perks they are all drugs that will alter your mind, why are some legal and "good" and some you can get jail for, even playing field I say.

[sycosean]

I've sat here the last 45minutes reading all the post about wether or not drugs should be legalized or not... and I'm FUMING!!!!!!

I've spent the last 20 years in the frontlines working with children who are a product of , exposed to or addicted to, or are working for DRUGS!

DO NOT TELL ME THAT POT IN NOT A GATE WAY DRUG! To many times I've heard I started off with pot but I needed something harder som I tried coke,heroin,speed, crystal meth, escasty, crack, etc. Oh look it was pot that lead them to the harder stuff which means its a gateway.

Here's a little something I had to go through early in my career. I was working in a unit in which you had to be locked up. The only way you could be in this unit was to be put there by court order. We get a 9 year old girl who's mom was pimping her on the streets for drug money and the girl was also doing "pot". She ends up with us for her court appointed time and is released to a group home in the community. She promptly AWOL's back to mom and immediately starts doing tricks for her mom again. During that time mom buys her some pot for doing such a good job for her. The girl goes off and smokes that pot. What no one knows though is that this pot has been laced with .... PCP! The girl who is 9 ends up having a " bad trip". She proceeds to rip her own eyes out of her head and then run screaming into walls. Afterwards she is blind and has some brain damage.

Now I can sit here and tell you a whole bunch of other HORROR STORIES about the dangers of drugs and the effects they have. Unfortunately after reading a lot of these post it would be like stabbing myself in the eye with a fork.

What I see from these post is that we are dealing with a bunch of tree hugging hippy moron's that don't have a clue about what really takes place on the front lines when it comes to drugs and what the consequences are. ( Nobody better lecture me about consequences as I've seen 20 years worth)

If we want to win the war on drugs we need to get serious and start a policy of zero tolerance. You're caught dealing. You're gone. You're caught distributing. bye bye. You're caught making. See-ya.

We as a society have become to lenient. We have given more rights to criminals then we have to victims. That's just WRONG!

THere was a post last week about some criminal who had raped a 6month old and everybody was stating that he should be killed etc etc. ! person said it wasn't his fault as he was probably a victim of abuse himself. This really bothered me and it took me awhile to pinpoint why. This is it.... He made a CHOICE TO ABUSE ANOTHER PERSON! A 6 MONTH OLD. That is why your argument doesn't work.

Ultimately all this comes down to choices. We all make choices however legalizing drugs would be a very POOR choice with very DIRE CONSEQUENCES!


SYCOSEAN

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by sycosean

I've sat here the last 45minutes reading all the post about wether or not drugs should be legalized or not... and I'm FUMING!!!!!!

I've spent the last 20 years in the frontlines working with children who are a product of , exposed to or addicted to, or are working for DRUGS!

DO NOT TELL ME THAT POT IN NOT A GATE WAY DRUG! To many times I've heard I started off with pot but I needed something harder som I tried coke,heroin,speed, crystal meth, escasty, crack, etc. Oh look it was pot that lead them to the harder stuff which means its a gateway.

Here's a little something I had to go through early in my career. I was working in a unit in which you had to be locked up. The only way you could be in this unit was to be put there by court order. We get a 9 year old girl who's mom was pimping her on the streets for drug money and the girl was also doing "pot". She ends up with us for her court appointed time and is released to a group home in the community. She promptly AWOL's back to mom and immediately starts doing tricks for her mom again. During that time mom buys her some pot for doing such a good job for her. The girl goes off and smokes that pot. What no one knows though is that this pot has been laced with .... PCP! The girl who is 9 ends up having a " bad trip". She proceeds to rip her own eyes out of her head and then run screaming into walls. Afterwards she is blind and has some brain damage.

Now I can sit here and tell you a whole bunch of other HORROR STORIES about the dangers of drugs and the effects they have. Unfortunately after reading a lot of these post it would be like stabbing myself in the eye with a fork.

What I see from these post is that we are dealing with a bunch of tree hugging hippy moron's that don't have a clue about what really takes place on the front lines when it comes to drugs and what the consequences are. ( Nobody better lecture me about consequences as I've seen 20 years worth)

If we want to win the war on drugs we need to get serious and start a policy of zero tolerance. You're caught dealing. You're gone. You're caught distributing. bye bye. You're caught making. See-ya.

We as a society have become to lenient. We have given more rights to criminals then we have to victims. That's just WRONG!

THere was a post last week about some criminal who had raped a 6month old and everybody was stating that he should be killed etc etc. ! person said it wasn't his fault as he was probably a victim of abuse himself. This really bothered me and it took me awhile to pinpoint why. This is it.... He made a CHOICE TO ABUSE ANOTHER PERSON! A 6 MONTH OLD. That is why your argument doesn't work.

Ultimately all this comes down to choices. We all make choices however legalizing drugs would be a very POOR choice with very DIRE CONSEQUENCES!


SYCOSEAN

I can absolutely tell you that I have done pot and never did a hard drugs in my life, I had neighbours back home that smoked pot daily for many years that wouldn't touch harder drugs, won't even drink, it has to do with the person and their addictive personalities more than blaming the drugs, I have a friend here trying to get off oxy's because he had a bad knee surgery years ago and has chronic pain, he started off with tylenol 3's and went to oxy's a few years later, is tylenol 3 a gateway drug?

[gl2]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

so engineers with engineering degrees are not functioning members of society?

just because people have a job title doesn't make them functioning members of society. if he gets stoned, screws up and guys at ground level get hurt then where is the accountability?.......x2 to the bottom of the ocean. its just to bad someone is gonna get hurt before accountability comes into play. if the guy you know is smart enough to become a engineer then i am sure he can figure out drugs are neither good or legal.

[So Nova *!%]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

so engineers with engineering degrees are not functioning members of society?

Petty
I get it , we all get it there are drug users in all walks of life.
Why risk losing that good job? is getting high on the weekend or after work really worth it?
what if?
What if you just finished smoking up and there was an emergency at work that you HAD to attend to? do you go in knowing the boss will be there as well,how do you deal with him when all you can think about is a cheeseburger and one very large coke?

[So Nova *!%]

to quote AlbertaBigBore


IBTL

[tonka]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

I can absolutelt tell you that I have done pot and never did a hard drugs in my life, I had neighbours back home that smoked pot daily for many years that wouldn't touch harder drugs won't even drink, it has to do with the person and their addictive personalities more than blaming the drugs, I have a friend here trying to get off oxy's because he had a bad knee surgery years ago and has chronic pain, he started off with tylenol 3's and went to oxy's a few years later, is tylenol 3 a gateway drug?

east I'm with you to this point, but pot and kids is a bad combination.Threr are many studies that can directly link damage to the developing brain and pot use. Pot is bad for kids legalizing it under any plan i have seen would not keep it further away, it would make it more accessible.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Tosh

just because people have a job title doesn't make them functioning members of society. if he gets stoned, screws up and guys at ground level get hurt then where is the accountability?.......x2 to the bottom of the ocean. its just to bad someone is gonna get hurt before accountability comes into play. if the guy you know is smart enough to become a engineer then i am sure he can figure out drugs are neither good or legal.

you are making assumptions, he is an occasional pot smoker maybe one or twice a month,never does it at work and runs a succesful life,owns his own home,has a new truck,is buying a beach house in hawaii soon and yeah and is 30 years old,how many 30 year olds you know own their own homes and are buying property in hawaii? if that's a bad member of society I wish everybody smoked pot then.

[outwalking]

Holy cripes, this isn't a discussion, this is a bunch of people telling a few others how it is and that is that, end of story.

I apologize, I threw in the medicinal thing as an afterthought, I'm well aware hemp doesn't have any medicinal qualities, my bad, thanks for being so quick to point it out. My point was "alternative production" or whatever the heck I actually said.

This is getting ridiculous, to insinuate that Joe Blow down the street smoking a joint and reading a gun mag (for example) in his garage after he tucked his kids into bed is directly contributing to the demise of innocent children is insane! For crying out loud people, pull your heads out of the ground. What about the jerkoff who drank a couple mickeys, went and felt up his daughter? I'm sure that's been a root cause of more than one prostitute on the street turning tricks for her next buzz.

Someone was talking about their loser journeyman who drank and smoked weed and was a complete moron. Pot and booze aside, that guy would still be a loser.

To lump pot in the same category as meth, crack, and heroin is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Apparently this view makes me scum of society, a baby killer, an enforcer of illegal activities. How about you stop going to the doctor, forget about heart surgery, write your own Will, convey your own land, spay your own dog, fix your own car, cut your own hair, because all you are doing is putting your honest money into the hands of people who are going to buy some weed and kill your children.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

you are making assumptions, he is an occasional pot smoker maybe one or twice a month,never does it at work and runs a succesful life,owns his own home,has a new truck,is buying a beach house in hawaii soon and yeah and is 30 years old,how many 30 year olds you know own their own homes and are buying property in hawaii? if that's a bad member of society I wish everybody smoked pot then.

i dont have to make assumptions, you already told me enough i need to know about the guy. i don't give a rats a** what his t4 says or what he owns.....but he could have more if he didn't do pot......wait till he gets caught in hawaii going it.....i know a couple engineers who are under 30 and own property in arizona...so what, doesn't make em good people.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by tonka

east I'm with you to this point, but pot and kids is a bad combination.Threr are many studies that can directly link damage to the developing brain and pot use. Pot is bad for kids legalizing it under any plan i have seen would not keep it further away, it would make it more accessible.

can't be any worse than it is right now.

obviously what we are doing now is not working,it has cost billions of dollars and is only getting worse,I am just being realistic and not doubling down on a bad idea,prohabition didn't work for booze and it will never work for drugs,if there is a market for it it will get there legal or illegal,increasing jail time will increase the price.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Tosh

i dont have to make assumptions, you already told me enough i need to know about the guy. i don't give a rats a** what his t4 says or what he owns.....but he could have more if he didn't do pot......wait till he gets caught in hawaii going it.....i know a couple engineers who are under 30 and own property in arizona...so what, doesn't make em good people.

considering he is a childhood friend that I have known for 25 plus years I can attest he is a good person, he drinks too is that ok with you should we pry his life apart and see if he fits your standards of what you think a good person is?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sycosean

We as a society have become to lenient. We have given more rights to criminals then we have to victims. That's just WRONG!

So if I choose to use a drug, am I the criminal or the victim?

Syco, I've seen the damage too. I used to be a social worker in the Boyle street (95th street) area of Edmonton. But the point is not whether they are harmful or not, nor whether one or the other is a "gateway drug". The issue is whether you feel you need government to make criminals of people for doing something that affects only them and no one else (don't bring up driving stoned. That's already against the law). It's really a "Hands up everyone who wants the Nanny State" issue.

There are lots of things I don't want my kids doing but don't advocate making illegal. Might as well make unprotected sex a crime. It carries a lot of risk and does a lot of damage.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by outwalking

Holy cripes, this isn't a discussion, this is a bunch of people telling a few others how it is and that is that, end of story.

I apologize, I threw in the medicinal thing as an afterthought, I'm well aware hemp doesn't have any medicinal qualities, my bad, thanks for being so quick to point it out. My point was "alternative production" or whatever the heck I actually said.

This is getting ridiculous, to insinuate that Joe Blow down the street smoking a joint and reading a gun mag (for example) in his garage after he tucked his kids into bed is directly contributing to the demise of innocent children is insane! For crying out loud people, pull your heads out of the ground. What about the jerkoff who drank a couple mickeys, went and felt up his daughter? I'm sure that's been a root cause of more than one prostitute on the street turning tricks for her next buzz.

Someone was talking about their loser journeyman who drank and smoked weed and was a complete moron. Pot and booze aside, that guy would still be a loser.

To lump pot in the same category as meth, crack, and heroin is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Apparently this view makes me scum of society, a baby killer, an enforcer of illegal activities. How about you stop going to the doctor, forget about heart surgery, write your own Will, convey your own land, spay your own dog, fix your own car, cut your own hair, because all you are doing is putting your honest money into the hands of people who are going to buy some weed and kill your children.

you are defending one evil because you think its better than another evil????. i hope that guy down the street loses his kids because they obviously aren't his first priority.

[sycosean]

Eastcoast,

Gateway drug usually refers to teenagers. I can only guess that both you and your neighbour started later on in life when you were less influenced by peer pressure. Also it can refer to the habit in which you use the drug ie. how often, circumstances,etc.

Sycosean