Ex-Hasidic man never heard of science

[gunluvr]

Kinda unbelievable this happens in Canada in the 21st. century

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pm...nce-trial-told

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Kinda unbelievable this happens in Canada in the 21st. century

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pm...nce-trial-told

The general term often used to describe these groups is; 'Religious Isolationists'.

Several religions in the world have small splinter groups like the Tash.

Selkirk

[sk270]

In the past, I have supported the right of Christian congregations to operate their own schools. However, this news item shows why religious schools must follow the provincial curricula. They should be free to introduce other material but everybody in Canada has the right to a basic education, which would certainly include English, science and geography.

[gunluvr]

I don't even get how parents are allowed to home-school. Got a young fellow at work who was home-schooled. I swear sometimes he just fell off a turnip truck.
No social skills at all.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

I don't even get how parents are allowed to home-school. Got a young fellow at work who was home-schooled. I swear sometimes he just fell off a turnip truck.
No social skills at all.

It's a well known, basic fact that home schoolers generally score higher on exams than their peers in the public system. Seems like one good reason....

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Trochu

It's a well known, basic fact that home schoolers generally score higher on exams than their peers in the public system. Seems like one good reason....

Never said the kid at work was stupid, just lacking intangible skills we take for granted.

[barbless]

Lots of home schooled lack social skills and some life or street skills

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by barbless

Lots of home schooled lack social skills and some life or street skills

Meh ..Lots of public school graduates have the same problem.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Never said the kid at work was stupid, just lacking intangible skills we take for granted.

I doubt that home schooling caused his problems. He likely had the problem already and is why he was home schooled.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by sk270

In the past, I have supported the right of Christian congregations to operate their own schools. However, this news item shows why religious schools must follow the provincial curricula. They should be free to introduce other material but everybody in Canada has the right to a basic education, which would certainly include English, science and geography.

Almost all private schools have to follow provincial teaching standards

[oldgutpile]

I was schooled through the public system, but I cringe when I see the agenda of the lefty school board systems being pushed on my grandkids. Indoctrination at an early stage!
Home schooling "only" lacks in social integration. Other than this downside, I would be all for it.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

I was schooled through the public system, but I cringe when I see the agenda of the lefty school board systems being pushed on my grandkids. Indoctrination at an early stage!
Home schooling "only" lacks in social integration. Other than this downside, I would be all for it.

While I don't homeschool myself I do know families that do. It has come a long way, couple times a week they seem to organize something together so the kids get social interaction

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Glion

While I don't homeschool myself I do know families that do. It has come a long way, couple times a week they seem to organize something together so the kids get social interaction

I know families that home school also. Kids are in skating, hockey, swimming lessons, etc.

[riden]

Originally Posted by Glion

Almost all private schools have to follow provincial teaching standards

To get funding from the province it’s required.


It’s the quasi private schools that aren’t receiving any funding that are the problem. Many students are officially home schoolers , but go to an unrecognized school. Many of these schools are not much different than the school in the article.

I believe it was Prentice’s government that looked into it, admitted it was a problem and quietly backed away because they knew it would be a big fight. Parental rights are a big deal in Alberta , and schools like these can slip between the cracks, riding the shirt tails of the good ones

[Glion]

Originally Posted by riden

To get funding from the province it’s required.


It’s the quasi private schools that aren’t receiving any funding that are the problem. Many students are officially home schoolers , but go to an unrecognized school. Many of these schools are not much different than the school in the article.

I believe it was Prentice’s government that looked into it, admitted it was a problem and quietly backed away because they knew it would be a big fight. Parental rights are a big deal in Alberta , and schools like these can slip between the cracks, riding the shirt tails of the good ones

It is to bad that they do this. I also think it is a very delicate balance with parents rights and Gov't responsibilities. I have studied the public/private sectors of education quite a bit. But haven't looked to closely at the unregulated ones.

[Ken07AOVette]

Did you guys actually read the article?

Lowen, 42, and his wife Clara Wasserstein have filed legal action against the Quebec government, which they accuse of failing to ensure they received the education to which they were entitled.

HIS PARENTS chose this life for him.

He should be suing them.

It also says

They are not seeking damages but want a ruling declaring the province and several Hasidic schools violated provincial education laws, in the hopes of ensuring other children receive a standard education.

He is unemployed, I wonder who is paying the Lawyer?

[Grizzly Adams]

My son has a BIL who is a very bright man, an electrical engineer, born here, yet he is a devout Muslim and denies Evolution. Some things are just beyond Reason.

Grizz

[AndrewM]

Was hard enough going from a small town school to university. Couldn't imagine going from home schooling to university!

[EZM]

I am more than hesitant to ever support isolationist educational institutions, home schooling, religious schools as this will not prepare a person in this country to be able to properly socialize, communicate in our national languages, etc...

There probably is a "middle ground" where, if religious or special interest school children would be required to demonstrate a standard of knowledge and socialization - and even if the religious or special interest group does not support science and fact (evolution, science and medicine) the student should be at the very least, educated in these areas so that when they become adults they can make a decision for themselves on how they want to live their life and if they want to continue to believe in fairytales, or if they want to grasp truth and reality.

Yeah …. dinosaurs were real

Yeah ….. we have a cure for that

[Glion]

Originally Posted by EZM

I am more than hesitant to ever support isolationist educational institutions, home schooling, religious schools as this will not prepare a person in this country to be able to properly socialize, communicate in our national languages, etc...

There probably is a "middle ground" where, if religious or special interest school children would be required to demonstrate a standard of knowledge and socialization - and even if the religious or special interest group does not support science and fact (evolution, science and medicine) the student should be at the very least, educated in these areas so that when they become adults they can make a decision for themselves on how they want to live their life and if they want to continue to believe in fairytales, or if they want to grasp truth and reality.

Yeah …. dinosaurs were real

Yeah ….. we have a cure for that

The "standard religious" or faith based schools do have to follow provincial curriculum and take the provincial standards exams. At least here in Alberta anyways. Curriculumwise there is very little difference, just private schools involve the parents alot more in general.

[riden]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Did you guys actually read the article?

Lowen, 42, and his wife Clara Wasserstein have filed legal action against the Quebec government, which they accuse of failing to ensure they received the education to which they were entitled.

HIS PARENTS chose this life for him.

He should be suing them.

It also says

They are not seeking damages but want a ruling declaring the province and several Hasidic schools violated provincial education laws, in the hopes of ensuring other children receive a standard education.

He is unemployed, I wonder who is paying the Lawyer?

It’s raises a good question.

In 2020 does a parent have the right to decide their children don’t need a high school diploma and doesn’t require the education necessary to enter the trades for example.

Personally, I don’t think a parent should have the right to that decision. But, I’ve had people disagree on this forum.

[Ken07AOVette]

I agree with you.
Stupid parents should not be given the power or ability to raise stupid children.

Originally Posted by riden

It’s raises a good question.

In 2020 does a parent have the right to decide their children don’t need a high school diploma and doesn’t require the education necessary to enter the trades for example.

Personally, I don’t think a parent should have the right to that decision. But, I’ve had people disagree on this forum.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by riden

It’s raises a good question.

In 2020 does a parent have the right to decide their children don’t need a high school diploma and doesn’t require the education necessary to enter the trades for example.

Personally, I don’t think a parent should have the right to that decision. But, I’ve had people disagree on this forum.

Teachers can't even fail students or give them a zero. What good is a diploma these days?

[daveyn]

It is well documented that the a primary factor for poverty is illiteracy. If you decide not to educate your children you destine them to a very difficult road in life.
A standardized education needs to be mandatory. You don't get to choose. You should however have the right to choose which school and how your child is educated, but that program needs to meet some standardized test requirements.
To do less would turn the country into some 3rd world backwater. Whether we are going there anyway is a matter for another topic, but education is the key to avoiding that.

[riden]

Originally Posted by Glion

It is to bad that they do this. I also think it is a very delicate balance with parents rights and Gov't responsibilities. I have studied the public/private sectors of education quite a bit. But haven't looked to closely at the unregulated ones.

I know a bit about it

Generally, the students are “home schoolers” and the parents apply for the funding all home schooled kids are entitled to. The funding they receive then goes directly to the school as tuition. My neighbour told me his VERY conservative church will have a night where people can assist parents doing the paper work.

These kids will likely never see a standardized test and won’t write the provincial exams in gr 3,6 and 9. Very difficult to stop, if anyone from the province showed up, they would just move school to someone’s shop for a month.

[riden]

Originally Posted by daveyn

It is well documented that the a primary factor for poverty is illiteracy. If you decide not to educate your children you destine them to a very difficult road in life.
A standardized education needs to be mandatory. You don't get to choose. You should however have the right to choose which school and how your child is educated, but that program needs to meet some standardized test requirements.
To do less would turn the country into some 3rd world backwater. Whether we are going there anyway is a matter for another topic, but education is the key to avoiding that.

Or, you’ve made the decision for your child then can never leave the community that accepts this lifestyle.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by riden

Or, you’ve made the decision for your child then can never leave the community that accepts this lifestyle.

Like Hutterites, a basic education with enough added to cope in the chosen life style. makes it very difficult to leave, which is the goal.

Grizz

[riden]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Like Hutterites, a basic education with enough added to cope in the chosen life style. makes it very difficult to leave, which is the goal.

Grizz

Agreed

But I bet most Hutterite schools provide a better k-9 education than the schools I’m referring to. Most Hutterite schools are affiliated with public boards. But it looks like some of them go through 2 or 3 teachers a year.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

My son has a BIL who is a very bright man, an electrical engineer, born here, yet he is a devout Muslim and denies Evolution. Some things are just beyond Reason.

Grizz

Denying evolution is beyond reason?

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Glion

The "standard religious" or faith based schools do have to follow provincial curriculum and take the provincial standards exams. At least here in Alberta anyways. Curriculumwise there is very little difference, just private schools involve the parents alot more in general.

If you mean "standard" as in Catholic School, I agree. I went to Catholic School, my wife and kids did too and we all had science, and were even taught about other religions and studied/taught evolution.

We all have friends that have become "more religious" than the average person, and many friends who have not, while others have decided not to follow faith - which is cool - everyone made their choices with open eyes, completely educated.

When I'm critical - I was more thinking along the lines of those "schools" or "home schools" that deny the opportunity to kids to learn science (and evolution) and learn basic socialization skills with other kids, how to deal with conflict, talk to people, approach people, etc....

My wife used to deal with this everyday in her field and she says You will find a disproportionately high number of violent offenders, who were not socialized properly. It's not to say socialization alone will cure the craziest people with real mental illness, but in many cases these illnesses, if treated, and part of that is socialization, can result in a person who able to live in society without being dangerous.

That might actually be the bigger issue.

At the end of the day, you need to arm the kids. If they want to grow up and live in make believe land and reject science and reality, at least that will be a conscious CHOICE, not the ONLY path where the lack of knowledge and ignorance leaves them with NO CHOICE.

That's, to me, is abuse, it's a crime to withhold this very basic necessity to function in society.