arrow flight side to side?

Donkey Slayer · #1 08-25-2012, 06:18 PM

Just purchased my first bow and practiced today. Attached are some pics where the arrows appear to be not hitting true, they seem to be fishtailing. I can not tell by watching the arrow as to what is going on. I also did a paper test, with the picture attached and it looks OK to me when I look at the Easton arrow tunning guide. Had the paper 5 feet in front of the arrow.

The bow is a beginners, the PSE Stinger package. Arrows are 250 with 100 tips. The bow has a whisker arrow holder.

I'm not sure if it is a mechanical issue or my technique. The pictures are from 20 yards out.

Any information would be greatly apprepicated.

Thanks

Target 1.jpg

target 2.jpg

target 3.jpg

paper test.jpg

BuckCuller · #2 08-25-2012, 06:38 PM

In my opinion shooting 250s your arrow spine could very well be the culprit, that is only if your arrow rest is adjusted correctly.

nicholal · #3 08-25-2012, 07:14 PM

What draw length are you and what draw weight is your bow set at.

Arrows or rest is the culprit. arrows maybe under spined for the weight your shooting

AL

Donkey Slayer · #4 08-25-2012, 07:32 PM

It is a 60lb bow, set at around 55lb with a draw length of 30 in.

BuckCuller · #5 08-25-2012, 07:40 PM

Is the arrows 250gr. Or 250 spine. And is the arrow rest perfectly strait with the world. Double, triple check arrow rest before buying new arrows.

Donkey Slayer · #6 08-25-2012, 07:55 PM

The package was bought at spruce grove archery store and they indicated I need the 250s. The arrow selected was the carbon Express mayhem. It has 250 wrote on the arrow. I think it is the weight.

Cal · #7 08-25-2012, 08:02 PM

Such groupings can also be caused by tourqing the bow or a bad follow through. If your form is good check your rest. 250 is the spine but I'm unfamiliar with Carbon Express's spine rating system. Seems like every manifacture has their own rating system and with many of them the numbers have nothing to do with the actual amount of spine deflection.

Donkey Slayer · #8 08-25-2012, 08:16 PM

My grip might have been in-correct but I was trying not to grip it like a hammer and keep the fingers loose. Now as far as follow-through, I try to keep the sights on the target after the shot or keep the bow straight up and down and not drop to either side.

BuckCuller · #9 08-25-2012, 08:35 PM

Cal is right it could be torquing too. Just use the process of elimination start with the easiest and least expensive and work your way up. I've had spine problems before and what the arrow manufacturer recommends is not always right every single bow is different from brace height, archers draw length, harshness of cams and so on. It just takes a little experimenting and lots of practice.

Gutshawt · #10 08-25-2012, 08:38 PM

20 yards, 50 lb draw. The 250 on your arrow is grains, your carbon express are around 9 grains/inch. The 250 is based on your average 28.5" draw length. Without looking at any charts, a 55lb draw is almost definately going to be a 250 grain arrow. I would head back to Spruce Grove and ask them to double check your whisker. When I buy my bows there I have them set it up, then I go test them out in the shooting lanes just to make sure I'm within ball park.
Good luck.

Donkey Slayer · #11 08-25-2012, 08:58 PM

I'm going to practice tomorrow and work on the grip and follow through. Since I'm new at this, there is a very good chance it is me.

petew · #12 08-25-2012, 09:11 PM

Your paper tears are bad.This means the rest/nock is not set right. Look at the easton tuning guide and it will walk you thru how to fix it.
Pete

BuckCuller · #13 08-25-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutshawt

20 yards, 50 lb draw. The 250 on your arrow is grains, your carbon express are around 9 grains/inch. The 250 is based on your average 28.5" draw length. Without looking at any charts, a 55lb draw is almost definately going to be a 250 grain arrow. I would head back to Spruce Grove and ask them to double check your whisker. When I buy my bows there I have them set it up, then I go test them out in the shooting lanes just to make sure I'm within ball park.
Good luck.

I think your mistaken he said the 250 was written on the arrow that would be the spine. The grains that an arrow weighs depends on how short you cut your arrows (gpi). No disrespect just my opinion.

Donkey Slayer · #14 08-25-2012, 09:30 PM

I know the arrows where not trimed, after they looked at arrows while I was pulled back.

Redneck Renagade · #15 08-25-2012, 10:23 PM

For the lbs and draw length your arrows are fine. Its more then likely your rest. Upgrade it ASAP to rip cord red. Has it been shooting like that from day one? Or did it just start? Make sure all of the cock vanes are strait up because that is the way you have to shoot them through the biscuit, there is a stiffer material on the button. Try knocking a arrow and see if it lines up with the alignment marks on the riser. One line should be down the center of the shelf of the riser and the second should be on the hole where the rest is bolted too. If you look down the arrow it should be in a perfect line with the mark on the shelf and then hold the now I front of you and check and see if the arrow is in line with the mark on the riser. If all of this lines up good then you might just have to work on your grip. If you have anymore questions feel free to pm me. I have been a pse shooter for 14 years.
Good luck
Redneck

Cal · #16 08-26-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdonkey

My grip might have been in-correct but I was trying not to grip it like a hammer and keep the fingers loose. Now as far as follow-through, I try to keep the sights on the target after the shot or keep the bow straight up and down and not drop to either side.

I keep my grip right open with the heel of my hand lifted off the grip so that the onlything contacting the grip is the web between my thumb and forefinger. I do the latter because I find that inconcistant pressure on your palm can lead to vertical stringing, easyer to take that factor right out of the equasion for me.

Before you draw the bow make sure it is settled in to your hand nicely, if its pulling your skin one way or the other this can tweak the bow on the release. This is especily problematic for me on a bow has a sticky rubber grip. If thats the caste try covering it with packing tape or take the grip off altogeather. I always take the grips off my bows and find wearing a cotton glove on my bow hand helps it settle in properly.

On the follow through I do try to watch my arrow through the sight untill it strikes the target but IMO it is even more important to keep your grip open and not grab the bow when you release. Depending on the bow it might want to fall forward which will make it impossible to keep the target in the sight. Release with the intention of keeping the target framed but dont grab the bow to make this happen, let it fall into the wrist sling if it wants to.

Theres probably others on here who have better methods but this is just how I do things.

petew · #17 08-26-2012, 12:24 PM

Look at your paper photo. Here is the tuning guid , it shows how to fix this.
http://www.eastonarchery.com/img/dow...ning_guide.pdf

Donkey Slayer · #18 08-26-2012, 02:38 PM

Redneck, I am just starting out with a new bow. I keep the cock vane up. Interesting though, looking at the alignment marks on the riser, the line on the shelf lines up with the arrow, but the line on the riser (up and down) is above the line of thye arrow when notched.

In the picture, I put a white line on the line grooved into the riser.

How critical is this.

line on riser.jpg

Lots of good feeback and advice, thanks.

I'm heading out now to practice. Will work on grip, anchor point and follow through.

Donkey Slayer · #19 08-26-2012, 05:51 PM

Well practicing today proved the same, but maybe not quite as bad.

Redneck, looking at your response a little closer and reading the easton guide, the arrow does go through the center of the arrowrest screw hole and parrallel to the vertical riser mark. I was thinking at first the arrow needed to be at the height of the line.

The easton mentions the nock height being 1/4 inch, when I set the bow up on the floor with everything level, square and going with the lines in the hardwood, the arrow seems to parrallel and not sloped slightly towards the notch. The picture below is what I did, but somehow when I reduce the picture's size to post, it cuts away some of the picture. But the end of the arrow follows the line in the hardwood where is should be slightly sloped if the notch is 1/4 inch high. Also looking at the guide, an upward tear in the paper test (which I have) indicates a notch that is too low.

arrow line up.jpg

Also today I shot the target about 4 feet away and the arrows were bent to the left and upward. This was about the same as the paper test I did.

Plans are to move the wisker arrow rest to the left, as per easton directions and see if things correct. If upward tear still exist, raise the D loop.

Redneck Renagade · #20 08-26-2012, 07:59 PM

I just finnished paper tuning mine today and by the looks of where your rest is sitting it needs to be raised just so the arrow is just under the line then move your d-loop according. The easiest way to find your level is once you have the rest set place another arrow on the shelf of the riser under the nocked arrow. Once you have done that then move you mock point up or down so that the gap between the two arrows is even all the way down. After you have done that and tried a few Arrows let me know how its going.

Cheers
Redneck

remmy300 · #21 08-28-2012, 04:12 PM

From your original tear i would have moved my rest down a touch and to the left if i was you. Thats if its not your form or bow out of tune.

Lefty-Canuck · #22 08-28-2012, 04:19 PM

Your knock point may need to be moved slightly on your string (either up or down)....have someone take a picture of you and your bow from the side at full draw....then see if you can pick out anything.

***Edit....I see Redneck Renegade already suggested something similar to this....

LC

openseason · #23 08-28-2012, 04:56 PM

Sorry but is your paper tuning still like the first picture? If your looking at having your knock point 1/4 inch higher that is normally for recurves. Nothing wrong with a whisker buiscuit dont go out and buy a 145 dollar rest. Its not that necessary. Hard to see in the pics but . I always liked to put the rest a lot closer to the riser and if so right against it to keep it square and not twisted up or down. Can't remember if the stinger has two bolts to secure the rest or one? If it has two then you shouldnt have to worry about it tilting. If it is still paper tuning like the original pics move your rest until you get a nice hole through the center of the fletching the guide lines on the buiscuit will help you with making MINOR adjustments. If your grip is loose a 55lb stinger shouldnt torque to bad. Adding to that sometime when they hit the bag targets they move and it will appear to look worst than it is. The bag material will deflect the arrow a bit at other times. May not be as bad as you think.

Donkey Slayer · #24 08-29-2012, 10:05 AM

Well, I took the bow to a guy named Alex at the south WSS last night, great guy. He took a look at the bow and adjusted a few things in the back room (whisker and notch height) and on their little 8 or 10 yard range the arrows seem to be good. I will check tonight.

Good point about the target turning the arrow. Never thought about that.

openseason · #25 08-29-2012, 02:16 PM

Video evidence is also great record and play back you will see the fish tail. If there is one.