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  #31  
Old 04-25-2018, 10:55 AM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sooner View Post
I recall some time back Danielle Smith talking about the need for a East/West Northern energy corridor to span Ab, Sask & Manitoba and end up at Hudsons Bay. This corridor could accommodate pipeline, rail and transport. Leave B.C. & Quebec out of it. Then all 3 provinces have their own access to tide water for our resources.

Is this an option?

Crazy that the majority of Canadians see the need for our resources to get to other markets and yet a minority group on one end and a me me me province on the other end can hold the countries overall wealth and benefits from that wealth hostage.
It is being talked about. Then technically BC can have the US Enterprise beam them down gasoline cause they don’t want it via pipeline and they don’t want tanker traffic.
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2018, 03:30 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Default New meaning to the term, Paid Protester.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kind...wood-1.4634498

Federal program funds summer job to help 'stop Kinder Morgan pipeline'

Kinder Morgan pipeline'
B.C. citizen activist group hiring student to help scuttle the project

As Prime Minister Justin Trudeau continues to vow that the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion "will be built," his government's summer jobs program is funding a position with an activist group working to stop the project.

A call for applications for an "organizing assistant," posted online by the non-profit group Dogwood B.C., says the job involves working to help the group's network "stop the Kinder Morgan pipeline and tanker project." It notes the position is funded by the federal Canada Summer Jobs Program.

The temporary full-time job is open to students. It pays $15 per hour for 9 to 12 weeks of work and is based in Vancouver.

But according to the organization receiving the funding, this kind of political push-and-pull is nothing new.

Group got funding from Harper government as well
Dogwood B.C. said it has received funding for such positions since 2010, under both the Trudeau and Stephen Harper governments. The organization even got the funding when it was fighting the Enbridge Northern Gateway project, which Harper supported.

Kai Nagata, Dogwood's communications director, said the group isn't certain yet how many students it will hire with the help of federal funding this year. He said that in past years, students have worked on other projects as well, including one to prevent U.S. thermal coal exports from moving through Vancouver.

"The federal government has never thought to impose its political agenda on kids canvassing in B.C. on environmental issues," said Nagata, who previously worked as a reporter for both CBC and CTV.

In social media postings, Dogwood refers to Kinder Morgan as a "greedy, dangerous corporation." The group has organized a campaign to pressure Trudeau to not put public money behind the pipeline expansion.

Liberals cite 'free speech'
The Conservatives spent much of Wednesday's question period quizzing the government about the move.

"Does the prime minister not realize that paying groups to protest against these projects is exactly part of the problem?" asked Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer.

Trudeau pointed out that the group had received funding under the previous Conservative government before contrasting his party with theirs.

"Unlike — apparently — the leader of the Official Opposition, we believe in free speech. We believe in advocacy on this side of the House," said Trudeau.

In a statement, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu's office said the federal program funds nearly 70,000 summer positions with about 29,000 employers.

"These workplaces will represent an enormous variety of industries, causes, and types of work, none of which are taken into account in the application process, so long as the employer can confirm that the core mandate does not undermine human rights," said spokesperson Emily Harris.

'Discriminatory and fascist'
The Canada Summer Jobs Program has been the subject of considerable controversy this year. The government required applicants to check a box saying they support the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, including women's reproductive rights and LGBTQ rights.

Some religious leaders called the requirement an "ideology test" that is both "discriminatory and fascist."

The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has also questioned whether the requirement is constitutional.

Asked Tuesday about objections raised by some faith-based groups and other employers to the charter attestations, Hajdu said that "hundreds and hundreds" of faith-based groups still applied.

Her office said in March that, out of a total of 41,031 eligible applications received, 1,561 applications had been rejected — an increase of more than 1,300 over the previous year.

Hajdu's office did not say how many of those rejections happened because the applicant refused to attest support for reproductive or LGBTQ rights.
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:48 PM
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ESOXangler ESOXangler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...neries#Alberta

Alberta
Strathcona Refinery, Strathcona (Imperial Oil), 187,000 bbl/d (29,700 m3/d)
Scotford Refinery, Scotford (Shell Canada), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d)
Edmonton Refinery, Strathcona (Suncor Energy), 142,000 bbl/d (22,600 m3/d) - formerly Petro-Canada (before Aug 2009) and historically a Gulf refinery and British American.
Sturgeon Bitumen Refinery, Alberta's Industrial Heartland (North West Redwater Partnership), 50,000 bitumen bbl/d (7,900 bitumen m3/d) - Phase 1 of North West Upgrading/Canadian Natural Upgrading)
Scotford Upgrader, Scotford (AOSP - Shell Canada 60%, Chevron Corporation 20%, Marathon Oil 20%), 250,000 bbl/d (40,000 m3/d)
Horizon Oil Sands, Fort McMurray (Canadian Natural Resources), 110,000 bitumen bbl/d (17,000 bitumen m3/d)
Long Lake, Fort McMurray (OPTI Canada Inc. 35% and Nexen Inc. 65%), 70,000 bitumen bbl/d (11,000 bitumen m3/d)
Syncrude, Fort McMurray (Canadian Oil Sands Trust, Imperial Oil, Suncor, Nexen, Conoco Phillips, Mocal Energy and Murphy Oil), 350,000 bitumen bbl/d (56,000 bitumen m3/d)
Suncor Oil Sands, Fort McMurray (Suncor), 450,000 bitumen bbl/d (72,000 bitumen m3/d)

Let's look at the Alberta companies you assume are making so much money...and clearly you think an unfair amount.

Assumptions can be checked. All those companies have financials you can look up. Google Finance is your friend.

None are making crazy rates of returns. Especially if you do a 5 year and 10 year view.

Sun

P.S. Reason for price increase is the wholesale price for gasoline is rising.

https://www.quandl.com/collections/f...soline-futures

Currently US $2.09/gallon.

Canadian Rake price...Calgary is now at $0.864/litre.

https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/rack-...k-pricing.aspx Vancouver is now $0.953/litre.


Current price factors
From those prices you add taxes. So add $0.864 plus $0.3422 X GST = $1.27. Current price is $1.30. That is 3 cents mark up.
Elk,

I think if you looked at the actual numbers you’d see a lot more profit. Accounting adds in all types of things to get as close to revenue neutral as possible. There’s a million ways to do it. And even a 6% return on a billion is pretty reasonable.
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  #34  
Old 04-28-2018, 11:36 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Badgerbadger View Post
That's not the only answer.

Alberta needs to refine here, and work on keeping energy cheap within the province. We already have the lowest taxes in the country, so should work towards attracting value added businesses from other jurisdictions (manufacturing from Ontario, for example).

We have lots of natural resources in the province that we should leverage into their value added products, rather than ship them off elsewhere to be processed so we can buy them back.

I thought I read that the new refinery at Redwater was up and running? Seems like with the price of oil still low and the price of diesel so high there should be room to make some decent money.
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  #35  
Old 04-28-2018, 11:42 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESOXangler View Post
Elk,

I think if you looked at the actual numbers you’d see a lot more profit. Accounting adds in all types of things to get as close to revenue neutral as possible. There’s a million ways to do it. And even a 6% return on a billion is pretty reasonable.
When you are investing billions and the government could changes the taxes or royalties at any time 6% isn't a lot.
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  #36  
Old 04-28-2018, 11:43 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Not sure what you mean by swamped with cheap energy.

Alberta is not a big enough market to build and economically sustain a new refinery to produce more gasoline for example.



To make a refinery economic you need to build it near the consumer and near cheap transportation. That is the main reason for refineries along the coast.

If one was to build a new refinery it makes the most sense on the BC coast.

It makes zero sense to produce a bunch more gasoline here that we don't currently need. It would oversupply the market and drive the price of gasoline down. Thereby there would be no profit for the refinery...hence they would never built it.

At least in Vancouver they could ship finished product by tanker anywhere. They could also use some in the local region.

Shipping refined product does not take less energy. It takes far more energy because you need the infrastructure to deal with each one separately as needed. Transmountain batches however you can't batch all products.

Right now just selling raw to the coast would save us $100MM a day to the economy.

If there was a profit to be made building another refinery you betcha someone would build it.

What that says it don't waste money. Be smart.
The argument this guy makes sounds like it makes sense to produce in Alberta ?
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  #37  
Old 04-28-2018, 11:49 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Refineries make a lot of profit, if they are managed properly, a poorly run refinery, is a different story. As well, the product still needs to get to market, and our governments are making that more difficult, and more expensive.
Seems like there is an argument to be made about using the existing pipeline capacity to ship a more valuable commodity ( diesel vs bitumen) ???
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  #38  
Old 04-28-2018, 12:17 PM
Bigwoodsman Bigwoodsman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NKP View Post
I’m on board for a self-sufficiency policy. My fear is it would be implemented as a half-measure and would only serve to nationalize the resource, and forget the natinal supply side of such policy. Seeing as companies are reconsidering their presence in Ontario due to high power rates, maybe such a polivy should include hydro production too.
Agreed and a national policy would require a federal government that has the balls to deal with Quebec! So far in confederation we haven’t had a prime minister with the kahunas to deal with them. A national policy will only work when there is national unity!

If Trudeau had any sense he’d call for a first ministers meeting including all provinces and territories. Ask the question do we need a national pipeline coast to coast. Hands up for yes hands up for no. Majority rules. Should take all of 15 minutes to decide. Leaders that don’t show don’t get a say. If there is a tie vote his vote would break the tie. All votes made public.


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