Plugged Drain

[rusty99]

Hi Guys,

Looking for some plumbing advice if you could give your thoughts.

Have a shower in the basement bathroom that doesn't get used much (once every 3 months maybe). In the last year I have noticed dirty/sandy water stains from dried up water that has been backing up in the shower. Been keeping and eye on when I'm home from work.

Yesterday I find a bunch of dried up toilet paper that has backed up via the shower drain. Call the City of St.Albert who sends a crew over to scope the main sewer line. Main Sewer from the 4 inch clean out to city sewer is totally clean. We then check the stack in the basement and it is totally clean as well all the way to city sewer.

City guy's scope won't fit down the shower drain but he suspects that blockage could be in basement shower drain. Said I could pour lots of bleach & hot water down shower drain to try and unplug it. Then rent a small hand auger to try getting it clean.

What I can't seem to grasp is why toilet paper from the 3 upstairs toilets is ending up in basement shower drain if the main stack is clear?

Heading back to work on Sunday and need to get this figured out.

Thanks guys,

[rusty99]

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[Tfng]

There has to be a restriction after where that shower ties in. Possibly only plugs when lots of TP is flushed consecutively and as it breaks up flow improves.

I just went through a similar thing and found plastic sucker sticks in a few locations.

That shower drain can’t be the problem imo, it’s obviously clear at least to where it ties in because you’re getting TP coming back.

[Trochu]

Have little kids in the house that possibly flushed something?

Definitely sounds like you've got something between that shower drain and the clean out though. Hand augers can be had for around $20.00, or you can try pressurized water (not to much though), or high volume to try to clear out it.

[omega50]

You got something building a nest in there?

[rusty99]

No kids in the house, but defiantly something blocked along the way.




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[nast70]

Several years ago we had something similar happen. Plumber traced it to a 'back flow valve' I think it was called. It was jammed open and semi plugged with clumps of tp.
Stupid people who owner the house before us slate tiled over the access point. What a pain in the a** to find it. I redid the surrounding tiles, and left that one 'floating' just incase I need access again.
Oh, the chances of it happening again are pretty high, so no more triple ply tp for the kids!

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by nast70

Several years ago we had something similar happen. Plumber traced it to a 'back flow valve' I think it was called. It was jammed open and semi plugged with clumps of tp.
Stupid people who owner the house before us slate tiled over the access point. What a pain in the a** to find it. I redid the surrounding tiles, and left that one 'floating' just incase I need access again.
Oh, the chances of it happening again are pretty high, so no more triple ply tp for the kids!

I’ve had lots of calls where the culprit was the backflow valve serving the fixtures in the basement. These valves have a flapper that is normally closed (top hinged door sitting just a few degrees short of 90 so as to close). The old cast iron ones with aluminum doors get corroded and the hinge point gets stuck, the ABS ones might get damaged by a drain auger going through it, they’re also prone to getting things stuck in them, be it normal sewage or feminine hygiene products. Access to them being covered by overzealous tile jobs is common, I can usually find them by knocking around the floor to find the hollow sounding area and in fact had one of these many callS at an AO members house. These check valves are intended to protect basements from sewage back-up, but my experience with them has been more when they’re the cause of the problem.

A check valve can make it fun to retrieve your drain auger, particularly the cutter head, when retracting it. I’ll sometimes have to time a flush of the toilet to open the valve and simultaneously yard the auger back, often getting that timing right takes a few attempts. If I note this and the unit is covered by expensive flooring I’ll give the client the option of water they want to open it up or not; generally the valves remain undamaged by a passing auger, but every once in a while they are. Of course if access is easy I will check, or perhaps that’s even my access point in the first place.

As for the OP’s issue, that one is a bit different if your main is clear. I’m interested to hear the outcome.

[KGB]

If you think that the blockage is of organic matter, you can buy a bottle of drain opener at Amre Supply. Industrial strength, will open any clog.... don’t remember the name, but they will tell you. Just follow the instructions on the bottle!

[rusty99]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I’ve had lots of calls where the culprit was the backflow valve serving the fixtures in the basement. These valves have a flapper that is normally closed (top hinged door sitting just a few degrees short of 90 so as to close). The old cast iron ones with aluminum doors get corroded and the hinge point gets stuck, the ABS ones might get damaged by a drain auger going through it, they’re also prone to getting things stuck in them, be it normal sewage or feminine hygiene products. Access to them being covered by overzealous tile jobs is common, I can usually find them by knocking around the floor to find the hollow sounding area and in fact had one of these many callS at an AO members house. These check valves are intended to protect basements from sewage back-up, but my experience with them has been more when they’re the cause of the problem.



A check valve can make it fun to retrieve your drain auger, particularly the cutter head, when retracting it. I’ll sometimes have to time a flush of the toilet to open the valve and simultaneously yard the auger back, often getting that timing right takes a few attempts. If I note this and the unit is covered by expensive flooring I’ll give the client the option of water they want to open it up or not; generally the valves remain undamaged by a passing auger, but every once in a while they are. Of course if access is easy I will check, or perhaps that’s even my access point in the first place.



As for the OP’s issue, that one is a bit different if your main is clear. I’m interested to hear the outcome.

Hi Caber,

Not sure how to figure out if my back flow is the issue here? Pulled my back flow and took a visual and seems fine. Didn’t snake it or anything. What else could I do to narrow this down?

By the way I dumped a ton of bleach down the shower drain last night, let it sit for half hour. Then poured several buckets of very hot water down. Everything seemed to flow fine. But didn’t snake/augur it out.

I am wondering if all the TP that came up earlier was the clog? And it just finally pushed out the shower drain?

Not sure what else I should try?

Attached pic is the back flow valve in the furnace room on other side of bathroom wall.



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[rusty99]

Hi Guys,

Not sure how to figure out if my back flow is the issue here? Pulled my back flow and took a visual and seems fine. Didn’t snake it or anything. What else could I do to narrow this down?

By the way I dumped a ton of bleach down the shower drain last night, let it sit for half hour. Then poured several buckets of very hot water down. Everything seemed to flow fine. But didn’t snake/augur it out.

I am wondering if all the TP that came up earlier was the clog? And it just finally pushed out the shower drain?

Not sure what else I should try?

Attached pic is the back flow valve in the furnace room on other side of



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[270person]

Bleach is a disinfectant. Wont do a damn thing for a clog. Stupid suggestion by the city doofus.

IF you have bleach remnants in drain do not dump a hydrochloric acid based bowl/drain cleaner down it until you've flushed it well.

[1899b]

Tannerite and a .50cal

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Tannerite and a .50cal

[ZJHoban]

Originally Posted by 270person

Bleach is a disinfectant. Wont do a damn thing for a clog. Stupid suggestion by the city doofus.

IF you have bleach remnants in drain do not dump a hydrochloric acid based bowl/drain cleaner down it until you've flushed it well.

Maybe do some research before calling a guy trying to help out the home owner a doofus. Bleach will get rid of hair clogs, and a less potent chemical to be dumping down the drain.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ZJHoban

Maybe do some research before calling a guy trying to help out the home owner a doofus. Bleach will get rid of hair clogs, and a less potent chemical to be dumping down the drain.

Well that’s embarrassing. Lol

[waldedw]

Although 3/4 cup of bleach followed by a thorough flushing of hot water can be used to deodorize and sanitize drains, it won't help a clog. It's ineffective to use bleach to clear a clogged drain because it won't eat through the hair, washcloth bits, toothpaste and other matter that gets trapped inside pipes.

The above was clipped from an article on clearing clogged drain, supposedly written by a plumber ???? who knows, myself I would doubt that bleach would work, need something stronger like liquid plumber that has chemicals to eat through clogs, just my 2 cents worth, hope it all works out for you.

Having said that you can also find clips that say bleach does work for hair clogs ????? so does coke, what the hay give it a try

[CaberTosser]

That screw in assembly in the floor drain is not the type of check valve I was referring to, the ones I’m noting are buried under the floor and should have an access panel/box around them so that they can be serviced or used as an auger access point.

Like this, note the application drawings, but ignore the very last one, this type of valve cannot be used on a building main because it blocks venting of the sewer due to being normally-closed. There is another valve type suitable for that application and it had a normally-open configuration: http://www.canplas.com/plumbing/wp-c...re-CAN-ENG.pdf

[molly]

Originally Posted by KGB

If you think that the blockage is of organic matter, you can buy a bottle of drain opener at Amre Supply. Industrial strength, will open any clog.... don’t remember the name, but they will tell you. Just follow the instructions on the bottle!

STRIKE. That stuff is amazing, and very serious!! Use caution!!

[rusty99]

Thanks for all the input. I had to get back to work so never solved the issue where exactly the blockage is. For now I will keep my fingers crossed it doesn’t happen while I’m away.


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[Cariboo]

I always start with boiling water, I put 2 or 3 full kettles of boiling water down, then either try to unclog or test it again. It usually just needs to soften up, then the clog will move.....best of luck!

[rusty99]

Hey Guys,

Well the plugged shower drain in my basement backed up really bad again yesterday. Luckily I had installed 2 Wifi leak detectors (shower drain & furnace room drain) that alerted me. There was way more water this time.

My wife was doing her 2nd load of laundry on the main floor at the time. It was only during the 2nd load that the drain started to back up.

So now what? If I flush a toilet or run water down a drain it backs up the shower & furnace room drains.

Luckily I’m home from work due to Covid social distancing and can address this properly this time. So before I call a professional in St.Albert tomorrow. What can I do today to investigate further?

I found some sort of clean out access under the basement utility sink. Could this be where my back flow valve is? I borrowed a snake last night and could not get it past the shower or toilet pee trap.

Open to any and all suggestions! Thanks guys, getting desperate here.




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[Dewey Cox]

If you have a back water valve, it would likely be where the cleanout is right before the sewer leaves your house.

If you still have a snake on hand, try sending it down that cleanout under your utility sink, or taking the toilet off and sending it directly down the hole. Likely there's a cleanout on your 3" stack behind the bathroom too.

[Dewey Cox]

But do have a pro come out with a good snake amd clean your lines.
Nothing else is really going to fix this right.

[rusty99]

Going to Home Depot to rent a drill style drain auger right now. I agree on getting a pro with the camera to look at this. Just need to get plumbing flowing in the house today.


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[barbless]

Listen to Caber.

[liar]

If your going to try pushing the snake through the toilet line pull the toilet off first , then your only dealing with on 90 degree bend

[rusty99]

Honestly hoping not to pull the toilet off. But will do if needed for sure.


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[Dewey Cox]

If you are renting a tool from home depot, get a big snake on wheels.
And if you can get at the cleanout for the 3" stack on the back of your bathroom, that might be the best spot.

[CaberTosser]

Be cautious with that rental. If you feel too much resistance and the cable starts to bind, back off the foot pedal, let it stop and then hit reverse. Also, those rental units have open cable drums so that they can be washed and inspected easily for cable damage, the drawback is they've be flinging sewage water everywhere. Its helpful to shroud off around them, be it with hanging some poly or if you have some large cardboard (a big box such as from a water heater placed around them with the front cut off works like a charm)

Also be aware that if a normally-closed backwater valve is in the line you'll be augering, you do stand the chance of dislodging the hinged door in it. They're usually unaffected though, but do present an issue for retracting the cutter head past them, to solve this, have someone flush a toilet on that line and time the retraction for when the water opens the check valve.