High End Scopes

[markg]

I found a couple articles that compare very high end scopes. I think its a great time to be a shooter, we have access to some excellent equipment at a reasonable price.

I personally shoot a Razor HD and love it. I also have a Burris XTR which is a good scope as well but i would definately give the edge to the Razor. I am looking forward to seeing what the new Razor AMG is like.

I am interested to hear the Nighforce and S&B guys weigh in.

This thread is about sharing your thoughts on high end optics.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/1...s-and-reticles

http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...5-27-vs-kahles

[James 1]

I too have been looking for a better scope for long range paper, and hunting. I have seriousely been looking at a sightron SIII 6-24x50. Can't find anything bad about them, and there prices are a lot lower than a NF. I had a leupold 4.5-14 before but would like to step it up a notch

[morinj]

I did a lot of research before making my long distance rifle scope. I looked at the Zeiss, Swarovski, and Nightforce, in the end I went with the Leupold VX6
4-24x52. Excellent glass, excellent warranty, and it has the 34mm tube with the tmoa reticle. Good luck in your search!

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by James 1

I too have been looking for a better scope for long range paper, and hunting. I have seriousely been looking at a sightron SIII 6-24x50. Can't find anything bad about them, and there prices are a lot lower than a NF. I had a leupold 4.5-14 before but would like to step it up a notch

I sold my Nightforce NXS 5.5-22 x56 and mounted a Sightron SIII 6-24x50.There has not been a moment when I have missed the Nightforce...especially considering the difference in cost.

[Ranets]

I am currently running a N.F. ATACR 5-25x56 on my .338 and a N.F. SHV 5-20x56 on my 300 win mag, I have also ran an N.F. NXS 5.5-22x56 on a previous build. I know they sting a bit at the purchase but never once have I regretted buying any one of them and I am likely looking at purchasing another shortly for a new toy on the go.

[Cheyenne 1]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I sold my Nightforce NXS 5.5-22 x56 and mounted a Sightron SIII 6-24x50.There has not been a moment when I have missed the Nightforce...especially considering the difference in cost.

I have a 6-24x50 S3 and a 8-32X56 S3 sightron an a 5-22 and 8-32 NSX nightforces.
In my opinion there is no comaparison between the nightforce and the sightron. First it is not a comparison really as the sightron is a lot less expensive.
There is no comparison in the feel and accuracy of the turrets when dialing and of course the zero stop is about the best there is on the nightforce.
When shooting in low light the nightforce is hands down way better.
I shoot quite a but at long range in lower light conditions, as its usually the only time I can fit it in.
And when I can't see or is very hard to see out of the sightron I can still see with the nightforce.
With all that being said the sightron is still a very nice scope it functions well, it is just not a nightforce and as such it is not in the same price range.
I know that I will replace my sightrons with nightforces in the future.

[James 1]

Originally Posted by Cheyenne 1

I have a 6-24x50 S3 and a 8-32X56 S3 sightron an a 5-22 and 8-32 NSX nightforces.
In my opinion there is no comaparison between the nightforce and the sightron. First it is not a comparison really as the sightron is a lot less expensive.
There is no comparison in the feel and accuracy of the turrets when dialing and of course the zero stop is about the best there is on the nightforce.
When shooting in low light the nightforce is hands down way better.
I shoot quite a but at long range in lower light conditions, as its usually the only time I can fit it in.
And when I can't see or is very hard to see out of the sightron I can still see with the nightforce.
With all that being said the sightron is still a very nice scope it functions well, it is just not a nightforce and as such it is not in the same price range.
I know that I will replace my sightrons with nightforces in the future.

Sounds like to me that you really want a new NF. lol

[hartsky]

Right now I'm using a 6.5x20x50 vortex viper and love it. Lifetime warranty, doesn't fog up and has been put through a lot and is always on. I definitely think it's worth the money.

Cheers,

Hartsky

[Smokinyotes]

I have NF NXS 5.5-22 on my my 6.5-284 and 300wm. I have a 8-32 NXS on my 7LRM. All are great scopes but I prefer the MOART reticle over the MOAR.

[schreyer]

Originally Posted by markg

I found a couple articles that compare very high end scopes. I think its a great time to be a shooter, we have access to some excellent equipment at a reasonable price.

I personally shoot a Razor HD and love it. I also have a Burris XTR which is a good scope as well but i would definately give the edge to the Razor. I am looking forward to seeing what the new Razor AMG is like.

I am interested to hear the Nighforce and S&B guys weigh in.

This thread is about sharing your thoughts on high end optics.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/1...s-and-reticles

http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...5-27-vs-kahles

I've owned Nightforce scopes for more than a few years now, so I'll throw my two cents in.

Pros: tracking is right on, you dial and the bullet goes where it's supposed to. Even when the scope gets bumped, it still holds zero. REALLY nice glass, especially when dawn/dusk conditions are present. The zero stop is helpful when engaging targets at various distances on the range.

Cons: price, and they're heavy

[Groundhogger]

The nicest scope I've ever owned was a Leupold VX-3, and it was sure nice. However, a buddy of mine I think...either owns, or has owned most of the finest. (I used his SWARO, US Optics, Leupold Mark 4..he's owned NF, etc.) I was telling him about the Sightron S1 I put on one of my 22s, and urged him to look at an S3 next time he's looking to buy a scope. A few months back, he picked-up a RPR in 6.5CM and put a Sightron S3 on it~says it's the best scope for the $ he's ever seen. Considering his history with good glass, I take that as quite an endorsement.

I still don't have an S3 budget...but...an S2 will likely sit on my next centerfire.

[wally338]

I have a pair of 3-20x50 S&B pmii that i really like, however with the current prices I can't see myself buying another S&B. The glass and turrets are the best I have used. I also have a Nightforce SHV on my 17HMR, the reticle is fine for varmint or target shooting but a bit on the fine side for big game hunting for my liking. I had a gen1 Razor, would not buy another but might try a Razor gen2.
Edit. I also have a 8-32x56 Sightron, the glass in my opinion is not quite as good as the S&B or NF but still very good.

[qwert]

All NF glass is NOT the same high quality, but none of it is bad.

All Corvettes are Chevrolets, but all Chevys are not Corvettes.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by qwert

All NF glass is NOT the same high quality, but none of it is bad.

All Corvettes are Chevrolets, but all Chevys are not Corvettes.

I had a NF NXS several years ago, and other than the weight, the thing that never impressed me was the quality of the glass. The scope tracked perfectly, and held zero, but I actually found the glass used in the first generation Conquests to be superior.

[markg]

I really like the early conquests too. I had a 4.5x 15x 50 that was a beauty

[lone wolf]

For the $$ the older Conquests are hard to beat IMHO were superior to both NF and Swaro Z3s in low light conditions.I will never sell the older ones.

Bought a Leupold VX-6 recently, and have been quite impressed so far.

[markg]

I have a friend that shoots a 6x18x50 VX6 It has very generous eye relief and its very clear glass. Perfect pure hunting scope. I think he has the CDS turrets. I personaly would prefer target turrets.

[markg]

So like i said i shoot the Razor HDII 4.5x27 and love it. It is heavy so i am thinking of trying the new AMG version on my hunting rifle, anyone shot it yet or had the chance to look threw it and the HDII side by side outdoors?

I thought this was a good review but i want to hear the opinion of someone who doesnt have any skin in the game so to speak.

https://youtu.be/i-jk2D2rSuI

[bobtodrick]

A couple of issues ago SWAT magazine had an excellent article on high end (NF, US OPICS, S&B) vs mid range (Vortex, Bushnell Elites etc) and how for many, even in LE the mid range offered the best bang for the buck.
One thing that stood out for example was the turret construction. In the very high end scope the turret mechanism will be made out of an exotic steel (think some knife steels) that will stand years of hard daily use.
In the mid range it will be steel with a teflon coating that will eventually wear through and then the softer steel below will wear giving you slop in the turret.
For the average shooter...this will just never happen.
(then of course there are the cheap scopes that have no coatings and may even use plastic in the turrets, which are imprecise from day one)
As far as the optics themselves go...most of the mid range scopes have good glass, may use low dispersion elements and have excellent coatings.
You won't see much difference if any looking through them, unless you spend hours behind the scope.
Their take...even many LE users are well served by the mid range scopes.
If your in the wilds of Afghanistan and your life depends on your scope working perfectly 100% of the time...you need a high end scope.
Most others...the mid range are just fine.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I had a NF NXS several years ago, and other than the weight, the thing that never impressed me was the quality of the glass. The scope tracked perfectly, and held zero, but I actually found the glass used in the first generation Conquests to be superior.

The NXS and SHV glass is NOT ED/HD, the ATACR/BEAST is.

In addition to glass, the quality of the coatings may be even more important by controlling internal reflection and reducing total light transmission. Both HD glass and Fully Multi-Coated surfaces reduce Chromatic Aberration and fringing and contributes to the sharpness and clarity we call the WOW factor. Look through a current Leica Geovid bino or spotting scope for a good example of the WOW factor, (I just wish Leica would build decent turret mechanicals and reticles).

Good Luck, YMMV.

[qwert]

IMHO, 'high end' is not 'best for the money' or 'best performance/cost'.

The law of diminishing returns says that it costs more and more for every small improvement in performance.

When you purchase high quality anything what you are paying for is design, materials and quality control. It is reported that the top quality optics manufacturers discard 50% of their glass and coatings due to quality defects, do you really think that this rejected product is destroyed? There is a long line of buyers who will pay for glass and coatings rejected in QC, and most manufacturers own lower price point brands that utilize the rejected glass that does not pass premium price point quality control.

My eye is not young or good enough to quantify the difference, but it sure can see the WOW factor of premium glass.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[markg]

[QUOTE=bobtodrick;3277345]A couple of issues ago SWAT magazine had an

[1Heavyhitr]

Well ...my falcon optics 4-18x44 is the BEST scope in the whole wide world!

[Kurt505]

I have never owned any high end scopes but I have had a lot of the mid range scopes in Leupold, Swarovski and Zeiss. I liked all of them, but my favorite of the bunch was the Leupold vx6, in particular the 2-12x42. I had the 3-18x44 and although it's a nice scope, for hunting I like the low magnification for bushwhacking and 12x is plenty enough for the ranges I shoot at. A close second was the Swarovski Z5 3-18x42. Even though it's big it's still light weight. A scope that really has my attention lately though is the Swarovski z3 because I have a lightweight rifle coming soon that I think it would compliment well.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I liked all of them, but my favorite of the bunch was the Leupold vx6, in particular the 2-12x42.

That's my next purchase.

I have a swaro 4-12x50 that maybe available.

[propliner]

You haven't seen anything until you've tried a Tangent Theta. My TT525P makes my March and Premier look like kids' toys. A peek through both it and a top-end Nightforce makes the latter feel like a dreary day. The tool-less turrets are the absolute crispest and user-friendly of any turret, ever. Setting zero-stop is a pleasure. And the glass...

I'd take one Tangent Theta over two Schmidt & Benders. Well, maybe not quite.

[YoteStopper]

I haven't owned/used any "top tier" glass, had a Vorex PST and eventually replaced it with a Sightron S3 6-24 FFP. Sightron is much better glass IMO and I like the turret design, haven't really dialed it much yet but do feel confident it will perform. I now have 2 of these scopes and would definitely buy more.

Also have a Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12 Mil/Mil FFP and while not in the same class as the Sightron it was optically pretty close to the PST. The illuminated reticle is a pretty useless though, not that it had any bearing on the purchase of the scope but its really poor. The Vortex at least had usable illumination, for what its worth.

[Mangosteen]

Originally Posted by qwert

All NF glass is NOT the same high quality, but none of it is bad.

All Corvettes are Chevrolets, but all Chevys are not Corvettes.

Yes on Nightforce. Happy with mine as well as the European scopes. European rifles look better with European scopes. Black guns just look better with Nightforce.

Same thing with Zeiss. You can get the cheap version for a thousand or so or get the finer ones for three grand plus.

You get what you pay for.

It's a foolish argument all around.

Put you best buck down and turn the page onto something new.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by propliner

You haven't seen anything until you've tried a Tangent Theta. My TT525P makes my March and Premier look like kids' toys. A peek through both it and a top-end Nightforce makes the latter feel like a dreary day. The tool-less turrets are the absolute crispest and user-friendly of any turret, ever. Setting zero-stop is a pleasure. And the glass...

I'd take one Tangent Theta over two Schmidt & Benders. Well, maybe not quite.

And you forgot to mention...it is made in Canada!!
Very hard to get because they are having trouble filling all the military and LE orders they are getting...it's that good.
All from Halifax of all places.

[propliner]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

And you forgot to mention...it is made in Canada!!
Very hard to get because they are having trouble filling all the military and LE orders they are getting...it's that good.
All from Halifax of all places.

Yes, that's right. Tangent Theta is Canadian made in Halifax. There's no confirmation anywhere but rumour has it that the lenses are German made, manufactured by Schott.

The mechanics of the scope are what now set TT apart from the other high-end stuff. Look for Shmidt & Bender, among others, to quickly revamp their outdated designs.