who else shoots with back tension

[brohymn2]

anybody else use back tension to shoot? somebody got upset when i recommended it to another person on here. just wondering if anyone else shoots with bt or if people think its black magic

-wally

[Mtnbowhunter]

It is the proper way to shoot IMHO. Go through any professional coaching and they will teach you it's the only way to be as accurate as possible.(Ex. PSE Shooting School in Arizona)

[brohymn2]

Originally Posted by Mtnbowhunter

It is the proper way to shoot IMHO. Go through any professional coaching and they will teach you it's the only way to be as accurate as possible.(Ex. PSE Shooting School in Arizona)

thats what i thoiught, turns out some people shake their heads at that lol

[Mtnbowhunter]

The amount of "pros" is amazing
Just to clarify, I don't shoot an back tension release (anymore), but I use back tension to shoot my caliper release...

[Kale_M]

I find it actually quite amusing to watch some of the people shoot at the range. So much target panic and trigger punching going on that they can hardly shoot a 10" group at 20 yards. When you try to help them, or give them a tip,they give you attitude.

God only knows how many critters they have lost due to gut shots.

[J.B.]

I practice with a back tension release and hunt with a wrist strap. I started shooting the back tension release when I got target panic, and its pretty much fixed everything. I've even shot a bunch of small game with it because its just what I had on me at the time...

[thegunman]

My second year of hunting I had target panic when it came to elk. I cleanly missed five in month span. I had already killed three Pope and Young deer with my bow, but couldn't make her fall together on an elk.
My dad was trained by a World champion shooter from the states, so he was trying to get me to shoot BT. I was scared of it so I wouldn't learn
After miss number five I gave in and let him teach teach me. Two weeks later, getting over swine flu, the first elk to walk past got one in the boiler house.
Since then I have trained, hunted, and competed and been a better archer because of BT.

[Stik'em]

For all you Sheep Hunters out there, what do you guys generally use for a release?

Cause it would seem difficult to scramble through some areas with your release in your palm or do you strap it on before a stalk??

I hunted with a BT the other season but I hated trying to dig in my pocket to get it out, once I dropped it into the snow and the calipers froze shut on me. However I love my BT for target shooting!!

Stik'em

[Mtnbowhunter]

I use a wrist strap caliper release for sheep / mountain hunting. 99% of the time, i spin it around so that the release is on the top side of my hand, so it does not get wrecked while scrambling. I would not take it off though in case there is an chance at an animal and you don't have time to dig for it and put it on.

[thegunman]

Originally Posted by Stik'em

For all you Sheep Hunters out there, what do you guys generally use for a release?

Cause it would seem difficult to scramble through some areas with your release in your palm or do you strap it on before a stalk??

I hunted with a BT the other season but I hated trying to dig in my pocket to get it out, once I dropped it into the snow and the calipers froze shut on me. However I love my BT for target shooting!!

Stik'em

Whalen Hooker has a fixed style BT release with no moving parts and it is designed for a wrist strap to be attached. I actually quite liked it for that purpose, because it is a pain packing it in your pocket.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Kale_M

I find it actually quite amusing to watch some of the people shoot at the range. So much target panic and trigger punching going on that they can hardly shoot a 10" group at 20 yards. When you try to help them, or give them a tip,they give you attitude.

God only knows how many critters they have lost due to gut shots.

Now who really gives attitude, unsolicited advice is usually a sure way to get told to go molest your headgear ....

You must have fallen out of the Arrogant tree and got hit with every branch on the way down!.......

[nekred]

Back tension is one of those things that even people who claim to use it while shooting do not understand or explain it consistently.

I have seen people talk about rhomboids muscles, scapular rotation... and all sorts of other mumbo jumbo....

Also as bow technology has changed from spngy wall to solid wall this concept has also changed...

It really all comes down to consistent release point. Whether you are are a trad shoot and mantain a backwards pull through the shot when your finger hits corner of mouth or other reference point to the shiny bow shooters who use the fancy dancy thingamahiggies it is all about consistency... if you are not pulling... then you are creeping!...

Recurve shooters use a clicker to make sure that their draw length is consistent from shot to shot, in older compounds a few shooters used clickers, bt most drew to anchor than maintained consistent "back tension" in reference to bow not body!... to prevent overdrawing or creeping.

Now that compounds are designed for and being shot off the "wall"... if you don't maintain back tension you will be pulling your arm out of the target.

there are so many names for the same thing and so many interpretations....and "mis" interpretations meaning someone who interpretes it differently than me!...

All it comes down to is a consistent suatained smooth shot execution whther you are a command shooter or a pull through shooter....

If arrow is in boiler room then you have done what was needed.

The worst shooters and target panic'ers are usually the ones so worried about trying to do it right, by avoidung doing it wrong that they get in their own way and then when it gets a ll f'd up in their head they then try to un f themselmles... and without good advice and outside help they might as well try and lift a bathtub while sitting in it....

[NayNay]

I shoot a Carter Squeeze Me in the off season to maintain my proper tension release. Then come August I switch to a Carter RX-1 and use tension aswell. Switched to tension release 3 years ago and my shooting has improved 10 fold.

[schian]

what exactly is back tension?
i just started shooting about 2 years ago, so forgive my ignorance.
but if it will help me shoot better, i'm all ears.
thanks
Schian

[HoytAlpha35]

I'm using a Scott Longhorn Hex right now. Its kind of a combination of a trigger and a hinge on a wrist strap. Its help give me a surprise release, but a little more consistent anchor than I could get from my Longhorn III. My 3 Spot scores are coming back up so we'll see where it plateaus once I'm completely adjusted.

Seen a couple videos and a lot of the 'actual' pro shooters are using more of a hand action get the release to go as opposed to using there back muscle to make the release go. I'm pretty new to all this mumbo jumbo, lots to learn.

[manosteel]

I use BT, it was hard to learn, I shot like crap for a month until my body learned how to do it properly. I was taught by a professional coach, as Mtnbowhunter recommends, and man was it hard, my coach suggested to go with a BT hand held release right from the start.

I basically had to re-learn how to shoot a bow, after 20 years of bow hunting.

I had no reason to switch I was grouping inside 4 inches at 50 yards with a wrist release. But a good friend of mine from the US who is a staff shooter for Mathews and competes in the 3D circuit suggested I make the switch to a handheld release and to learn how to shoot properly, (a blow to my ego but heck I only bow hunt nowadays might as well do it right)

I went with the "Carter Evolution +" tension release when learning, and sometimes the "Carter Slider" which is a true back tension release, no trigger - to get the shot off its all back tension. And when I hunt I use the Carter Just-Bcuz (it’s the same one the guy off of Nock-on uses)

Anyway, I shoot better now than I ever have. I practice out as far as a 100 yards whether permitting, and my usually summer practice distance is 70 yards. Sure makes 40 yards look like a chip shot after shooting longer distances.

I say do it, learn the proper way from some one qualified and don’t give up. I almost did every week and I finally just had to pack my wrist style release in storage to keep them out of sight and mind. And don’t go back and forth from wrist style to hand held when learning, you will fall back into bad habits quick.

[Kale_M]

Originally Posted by nekred

Now who really gives attitude, unsolicited advice is usually a sure way to get told to go molest your headgear ....

You must have fallen out of the Arrogant tree and got hit with every branch on the way down!.......

Didn't say I was arrogant about it...

Sounds like you might be one of those guys I offered advice to..

[remmy300]

Originally Posted by nekred

Back tension is one of those things that even people who claim to use it while shooting do not understand or explain it consistently.

I have seen people talk about rhomboids muscles, scapular rotation... and all sorts of other mumbo jumbo....

Also as bow technology has changed from spngy wall to solid wall this concept has also changed...

It really all comes down to consistent release point. Whether you are are a trad shoot and mantain a backwards pull through the shot when your finger hits corner of mouth or other reference point to the shiny bow shooters who use the fancy dancy thingamahiggies it is all about consistency... if you are not pulling... then you are creeping!...

Recurve shooters use a clicker to make sure that their draw length is consistent from shot to shot, in older compounds a few shooters used clickers, bt most drew to anchor than maintained consistent "back tension" in reference to bow not body!... to prevent overdrawing or creeping.

Now that compounds are designed for and being shot off the "wall"... if you don't maintain back tension you will be pulling your arm out of the target.

there are so many names for the same thing and so many interpretations....and "mis" interpretations meaning someone who interpretes it differently than me!...

All it comes down to is a consistent suatained smooth shot execution whther you are a command shooter or a pull through shooter....

If arrow is in boiler room then you have done what was needed.

The worst shooters and target panic'ers are usually the ones so worried about trying to do it right, by avoidung doing it wrong that they get in their own way and then when it gets a ll f'd up in their head they then try to un f themselmles... and without good advice and outside help they might as well try and lift a bathtub while sitting in it....

Well I think u might have missed the a biggest part of what makes the Bt release so effective. It's not just about holding on the wall. It's about training your mind to concentrate on aiming. Its to take your mind off the trigger and put it onto your target.

I think a BT release is what everyone should start shooting with. Them switch to a release like a carter index or thumb with no travel and then execute just like shooting a BT.

There are tonnes of guys who can't hold the pin on what they are aiming at. They pass shoot and hammer the trigger on the way bye. Nothing like straightening out the trigger every shot.

I should know I had target panic worse than anyone I know. Back when elk were plentiful I missed 7 different bulls one morning. That was after 15 years of bowhunting. On paper I could light it up.

It takes time and a dedication to put the old trigger away and shoot the BT only.


By far the best invention so far in archery.

[thegunman]

Originally Posted by remmy300

well i think u might have missed the a biggest part of what makes the bt release so effective. It's not just about holding on the wall. It's about training your mind to concentrate on aiming. Its to take your mind off the trigger and put it onto your target.

I think a bt release is what everyone should start shooting with. Them switch to a release like a carter index or thumb with no travel and then execute just like shooting a bt.

There are tonnes of guys who can't hold the pin on what they are aiming at. They pass shoot and hammer the trigger on the way bye. Nothing like straightening out the trigger every shot.

I should know i had target panic worse than anyone i know. Back when elk were plentiful i missed 7 different bulls one morning. That was after 15 years of bowhunting. On paper i could light it up.

It takes time and a dedication to put the old trigger away and shoot the bt only.


By far the best invention so far in archery.

^^^^^this^^^^^

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Kale_M

Didn't say I was arrogant about it...

Sounds like you might be one of those guys I offered advice to..

No.. somehow I don't think so...

[nekred]

Originally Posted by remmy300

Well I think u might have missed the a biggest part of what makes the Bt release so effective. It's not just about holding on the wall. It's about training your mind to concentrate on aiming. Its to take your mind off the trigger and put it onto your target.

I think a BT release is what everyone should start shooting with. Them switch to a release like a carter index or thumb with no travel and then execute just like shooting a BT.

There are tonnes of guys who can't hold the pin on what they are aiming at. They pass shoot and hammer the trigger on the way bye. Nothing like straightening out the trigger every shot.

I should know I had target panic worse than anyone I know. Back when elk were plentiful I missed 7 different bulls one morning. That was after 15 years of bowhunting. On paper I could light it up.

It takes time and a dedication to put the old trigger away and shoot the BT only.


By far the best invention so far in archery.

yes that is all part of it and you hit on a very important part having a trigger with ZERO travel.

It really comes down to the fact that two actions and thought process have to happen simultaneously, aim and execution. so you can either focus on the aim or the execution with your conscious mind while you subconscious mind runs the other one.

When we are new in archery it is really hard to hold a steady pin so people tend to become "reaction" shooters, they consciously trigger the release when pin is close to middle. They like to speed up reaction time so they trigger faster upon reaction.... then it builds a reflex arc... and these are hard to break... kind of like hand on stove kind of thing... Then they move to the anticipation stage where they start the trigger reflex in anticipation of the pin nearing the middle....and many find awesome success with this... until there is a situation where there is more mental anxiety to manage such as when in a competition or on an animal and then it all goes south....

What people call "back tension" really is more about a subconscious release activation that about "back tensiion" It is about removing the anticipation etc.

It really is a mis-nomer because the BT releases are more about subconscious activation.

Howver it really is a spectrum of release activations with a subconscious execution at one end and a command release at the other end. I know some very top shooters that are at either end of the spectrum, it is those in the middle that have the most problems and the ones that also seem to know the most!... and shoot mediocre at best. of the major pros probably 90% shoot with a subconscious release and 10% with a command release.

What is very funny is that the command release is practiced so much it actually has become a very smooth process and many of these shooters get lost of trigger time in to make it happen.

There is so much internet drivel on this topic and misnomers' and bad information that it is more confusing than it really is...

Use your shot sequence, maintain your alignemt, aim for the middle, and hold it there until arrow is in target...

The idea of "back tension" is that it uses one motion to complete to processes, the same motion that maintains your alignment, triggers your release...

The best way to learn this is to shoot an olympic recurve!...

[thegunman]

Originally Posted by nekred

The best way to learn this is to shoot an olympic recurve!...

Not if your straight!!!!

[remmy300]

Nekred,

As you said "the major pros probably 90% shoot with a subconscious release and 10% with a command release"

I still say a BT release is the best way to train to shoot a "compound" with a subconscious release. You learn to Aim and concentrate on aiming only and forget about the trigger hand.

Shooting a "olymplic recurve" is a whole other game.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by remmy300

Nekred,

As you said "the major pros probably 90% shoot with a subconscious release and 10% with a command release"

I still say a BT release is the best way to train to shoot a "compound" with a subconscious release. You learn to Aim and concentrate on aiming only and forget about the trigger hand.

Shooting a "olymplic recurve" is a whole other game.

As to what is best is an individual thing most people start kind of in between because it is all new and tend to be "command shooters" which develops into "punching" the subconscious release in recurve is something so important. because there is not a solid wall. you draw and then increase your pull until the clicker goes to let you know you are at the right spot and you aim through that process. the clicker is a subconscious trigger to relax the back of ones hand and release the string.

Many Olympic recurve shooters can switch easily over to shooting compound at a very high level because they have learned this method very well.

It actually is all the same MENTAL Game, just slightly different mechanics.

Books have been written on this since they were invented... there is abook written in the 1600's on this exact topic. many people have different ways of explaining the same thing and it all resonates differently with different people.

The importance of a hard wall on a compound cannot be stressed enough. the pull until the axles come out technique, does not work without a hard wall.

A very interesting read is found on Dietmar trillus's website who is probably one of the world's best "command shooters".

I have spent a lot of time shooting jst about everything that will cast a projectile from my arm to a firearm and it is all the same. consistency is king. Evn in hockey learning to consistently hit targets is so important and the object there is actually to miss the goalie.

There are so many people who complicate archery with all sorts of stuff... and I can do it too!... The beauty part of archery is that there is no GOALIE!... There is only one reason you missed the target,... and this is because you did not do what was required to hit the target.

What is refreshing is when I work with someone for awhile and help them shoot better they actually seem to be amazed by how simple it really is!...to shoot well.

[nekred]

Another tech advantage too now is that most handheld releases with a trigger were the first ones to use a two stage trigger (double sear system) that could be adjusted for zero travel and maintain a consistent trigger tension regardless of how hard one was pulling into the wall.

The single roller sear index finger releases you can only make with minimal travel if they are set so light an ant pharting 100 yards away sets them off, or if you pull hard into wall they break at 3 lbs and soft into wall they break at 2 lbs and thisalso leads to punching as well to make sure it goes off when a person wants it too.

Today there are index finger releases built that have zero travel and the same two stage trigger as the handheld ones. By two stage I mean they are actually triggered by a spring which has to be "cocked" before they will work.

The trigger actuallymoves a sear out of the way so the spring can fire the release.

There is a lot of technology involved to actually make thing simple. I have taken evolutions and back straps apart to repair them and make them work and it is amazing how simple the concept really is but it requires some very accurate machining to work and be durable as well.

I am always amazed at how many people shoot their $1500 setup witha $30 release. Yet that same person takes every rifle and replaces the trigger with an aftermarket trigger to improve consistency!...

I have also seen people with the proverbial bag of releases strapped on their hip that can miss with the best of them...

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

many good points here...Although I recommend shooting a back tension release all winter and off seasons I dont recommend them for hunting if one shoots uphill down hill or from aquackward postions..and under the influance of pure heart b;lasting adrenilin ...not that it cant be done its just a lot harder...

for those who have Target panic...and there are more than most know...its a soultion that can actually cure TP...plus it can be super accurate in the right hands...

I have had Tp for 30 years and to this day can not hold a pin on the x ring to save my life....but I adapted and simply adjust my pins so they shoot higher than I am actually aimimg...very accurate for me ..but its not for anyone and if your recently into archery or bowhunting and suffer from TP..back tension is the way to go...

Many bow hunters here will shoot winter leagues and off season with a BT release and then use a normal finger release shortly before and during hunting season .

JMHO
Neil