A little help for the new guy?

[Brad09]

Well hey there everyone, I'm Brad. I am brand-new to the sport of hunting(just waiting for my turn to get my Non-restricted PAL). I know absolutely NOTHING of the sport, just woke up one morning with an urge to shoot something and eat it. I'm planning on going shooting for the very first time in a couple of weeks, to The Shooting Edge in Calgary, and although I'm still unlicensed, I am already shopping for my first rifle.

Now, this is when I found this site, and felt it was time to enlist the help of those that have been around for a little while and know the ropes. I come from the school of thought based on asking every question, even the ones that will sound the dumbest. So, I have some questions about my first rifle. Here are my circumstances.

I have NO experience with guns whatsoever. I know that when I mock-hold a weapon, I shoot left-handed, which I understand may restrict my selection of guns. I will be hunting in some densely wooded areas west of Red Deer, and potentially out in the open plain surrounding Brooks as well. My understanding is that when one is learning to hunt, they should stick to white-tailed and mule deer. Therefore, I need a gun and caliber that are condusive to killing deer.

I work with a 30-year Army veteran, who, upon learning of my interest in purchasing a weapon, bombarded me with all kinds of statistics and strange terms. However, he did recommend to me three different calibers that are good for hunting deer, and at heavier weight ammunition, may also be good for other game as I progress. They were .270 Winchester, .308 Winchester, and 30-06 Springfield. However, he used terms like "bore", "rate of twist", "terminal ballistics", etc. that thoroughly confounded me. Another thing that he told me was to buy a gun with a synthetic stock and a stainless steel barrel, so that "even when I'm out in the rain, sleet, snow, wind, cold, and bloody sh*t, and worried about freezing to death, I don't need to worry about my rifle!"

Now, as far as budget goes, I'm prepared to spend up to $1200 on the rifle, and another $1000 on a scope. I've heard the name Leupold a lot, they seem to not only make good optics but the warranties are apparently pretty impressive. Now, as far as the numbers go, a 3-9x40 is three to nine times magnification, with a forty millimeter objective lens, right? Or have I got this totally screwed up?

I appreciate the thoughts of all those willing, but I also ask the following. I did not choose this site to be harassed or mocked because I am clueless(and I'll be the first to admit it). I am here seeking help from those that are promoting a positive image of the sport, so let's all have a little respect from one another. And also, if you use terms relating specifically to rifles/ammunition(free-floating barrel, soft point, rate of expansion, etc.), please enlighten me as to their definitions, so that I know what you're talking about.

Thanks for your help.

Brad

[CaberTosser]

For a guy thats apparently clueless, you've stated things quite accurately. The 3 cartridge choices you mentioned would all be excellent for a versatile all-around hunting firearm. Its good to stick with the perennial favorites for a few reasons, one of which is ammunition availability; you'll always be able to find some on the shelf even in a store in Podunk, Nowheresville. These favorite cartridges also have more support from the manufacturers, meaning that they'll have a wide variety of loads available for them with bullets of various construction, premium loads, bonded bullets, solid copper, tipped bulllets, higher velocity loads, low priced loads, etc.

You've accurately stated the scope terminology; magnification, objective lens diameter, etc. Leupold is very popular for its quality and customer support, its Canadian warranty support centre is located in Okotoks, Alberta ( Jim Korth Agencies) and all I hear is good things about rapid and free service from them. I have 6 Leupolds and have yet to have a problem with any of them. I also have a Nikon and a Burris, and they've both been great so far as well, but I suspect the warranty would be less easy if ever required. The 3-9 x 40 seems to be the most popular scope configuration, but I personally prefer a slight bit more magnification, so I have a couple of 4-12 magnification scopes, one a 56 mm objective, the other a standard 40mm. I find that dialed down for close in work... there's little practical difference between 4 magnification or 3 magnification.... but that extra clarity on the long shots really helps. The next step up to say a 6-18 magnification will handicap you for close-in game, you'll want to dial the scope lower than it's capable of. A wider objective lens helps mostly in gathering more light, which helps with clarity for the shots taken at opening or closing legal light. The additional diameter does mean additional weight though.

I'd suggest a .30-06, .270, then the .308... in that order. This is based on ammo selection, and trajectory. The first 2 having slight advantages over the .308 at longer distances. Some .30-06 loads are available with higher velocities than are available in a .308 ( I like Hornady Light Mag 165 grain Interbonds personally). Energy would be the energy left in the bullet when it strikes the animal, a mathematical formula to calculate foot-pounds of energy in the projectile based on its weight and velocity; terminal ballistics combines this energy with how the bullet behaves and mushrooms to impart damage to your quarry. You could have a rapidly fragmenting varmint bullet for prairie dogs.... a lightly jacketed deer bullet, a bonded bullet for elk, moose or coastal brown bear, or a solid if you're going to Africa seeking Cape Buffalo.

Rate of twist is how rapidly the barrel imparts spin on the projectile. Most factory rifles will be fine for the average hunter, its only when you get into long-range target shooting or hunting that this may require something apart from a factory set-up. The rate of twist in set in how many inches of barrel it takes for the bullet to make a revolution. Some heavier (thus longer)projectiles, such as those used for very long distance work, won't stablise as well in a factory twist rate barrel.... and may require one thats a faster twist ( one spin in 9" perhaps...compared to 1 spin in 11").

A free-floated barrel is one that doesn't have contact with the forend of the stock after the reciever/action. You should be able to slide a $20 bill between the barrel and the stock forend, this is to prevent the stock from disrupting the barrel harmonics during firing, which could result in inconsistent shot placement. The stainless gun suggestion is good, but wood stocked guns can still be plently accurate, and laminated stocks ( basically dressy plywood) are plenty stable in terms of resisting warp due to humidity ( real wood falls short here).

There will be all kinds of suggestion from the others as to what firearm brand they suggest, and most will be correct. The accuracy of most are very good these days, Savage being known for great accuracy at a very low price, Remingtons are my most accurate, Tikka and Sako also very well reputed. Find something that lights a fire in you, you have to like what you're carrying, and shopping around for them is plenty of fun.

[graham1]

Hi there Brad, welcome aboard. The calibers that were recommended to you will all be fine for North American game. If you are hoping to go for moose someday I think one of the better choices would be the 30-06. There are many different bullet weights (in grains) that are available. The higher the grains the heavier the bullet= better penetration of bone and tissue. Big animal=big bullet! Also you can find ammo for a 30-06 anywhere that sells bullets. As for being left handed, a freind of mine shoots left and has right handed bolt action rifles. He doesn't have any trouble, it's what he's used to. Everyone and there dog has a different opinion of rifle caliber, I use a 7mm remington magnum. It does what I want but there are dozens of others that would achieve the same results. Dispatching an animal quickly is much more about shot placement than bullet. If you hit it in the back leg with a cannon it's not gonna die real fast. Going to the range and shooting is the first thing to do. You have to be comfortable with a rifle in your hands before you will be able to shoot it accurately when you're adrenaline is up and the big one is in your scope.

I hope I've been of some help.

good luck

[hillbilly1250]

I'm in exactly the same boat. Just got my hunting license and going to grab my PAL pretty soon. I'm located in Calgary's NE. At 40 years old, I hope it's not too late to take this up. Next weekend I'll be going with some friends to see if I can bag an Elk and a white tale. Need to learn everything including how to field dress and butchering. Maybe when we build some confidence, we could get together for a hut or even a chat over a beer or two.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Brad09

I know that when I mock-hold a weapon, I shoot left-handed, which I understand may restrict my selection of guns.

Hi Brad and welcome to the site.

Choosing right or left in a rifle is a bit different then golf clubs or hockey sticks. My son is left handed plays right handed golf clubs, shoots a right hockey stick and can bat from either side.

In a rifle there was no choices as he is left eye dominate. Also being a true lefty we really wanted his most capable hand on the action and trigger.

You obviously know if your right or left handed, but if you are right eye dominate I would strongly recomend you learn to shoot right handed at this early stage.

To determine this, if you have not already, simply point at a distant object with both eyes open. Cover one eye then the other. The eye that is still pointing at the object with the other one closed is your dominate eye.

We went with BDL Remington in 30-06 and have no regrets.

Good luck,
MK

[duffy4]

We talk a lot about getting youth involved in hunting and taking out kids out hunting. It is great to see adults who are interested in taking up hunting and we should do all we can to encourage and help them.

i always suggest that someone in that position find out when and where their local Fish & Game Association meets and join. There will be hunters and anglers there who will allow you to shoot their guns at a range to see how you like different rifles and cartridges. They will give you all kinds of first hand information and tips. And some may even offer to take you out to some good areas they know of to hunt with you.

Videos are a good source of information on hunting techniques and equipment.

As for rifles, Most hunters start off with a .22 that they use for target shooting (which is really practice of aiming and trigger control etc) and small game hunting. (ground squirrels, rabbits, grouse). Then there are shotguns for waterfowl and upland birds (usually a 12 gauge). Then a big game rifle.

You do not need to spend a whole pile of money on gun and scope right off the bat. Last week at the gun auction in RedDeer I payed around $400.00 for a used semi-auto in .308. I put a pentax 1.5 to 6 power scope on it for about $250. This Sat. if I had squeezed the trigger I would have killed a white-tail doe and filled one of my supplemental white-tail tags. (she had two fawns with her so I let her walk)

So I guess what I am saying is you could get a basic "hunting rifle and scope" and after a few years and some experience you could up grade when you have a better idea of what you want.

Where "west of RedDeer" are you planning on hunting? I live near Rocky Mountain House and hunt west and north of here a lot. I know a lot of good areas and would not mind sharing some of them with a new person keen to get a deer.

Robin in Rocky

On the eye dominance test from above, point your finger at an object with eyes open then close one eye then open it and close the other eye. The eye that is looking down the finger is the dominant.

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by duffy4

We talk a lot about getting youth involved in hunting and taking out kids out hunting. It is great to see adults who are interested in taking up hunting and we should do all we can to encourage and help them.

i always suggest that someone in that position find out when and where their local Fish & Game Association meets and join. There will be hunters and anglers there who will allow you to shoot their guns at a range to see how you like different rifles and cartridges. They will give you all kinds of first hand information and tips. And some may even offer to take you out to some good areas they know of to hunt with you.

x 2 Robin, good advice.

Brad09 seeing how you are in Calgary by the sounds of it you should check out the Sarcee Fish & Game Association. http://www.sarceefishandgame.ca/ They are a very active club, with lots of opportunities to get involved.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Brad09

" . . . I also ask the following. I did not choose this site to be harassed or mocked because I am clueless(and I'll be the first to admit it). I am here seeking help from those that are promoting a positive image of the sport, so let's all have a little respect from one another. . . ."

From what I've seen so far on this forum, you shouldn't have much of any such concerns. This is a great forum, with a lot of excellent, helpful people.

From the posts above, you have received some very good advice ... hope you're taking notes! A 'Google Search' will find you lots of other good advice and ideas as well. And don't forget your local library!

One suggestion I might have; From the description you have provided, you are a complete novice, with no firearms experience ... we were all there, at one time! Before getting into high-powered rifles (30-06, 270, etc.), you might want to get some basic exposure/experience with a 22 caliber rim-fire rifle (no recoil, not very loud, inexpensive amunition, etc). Generally, this is the type of rifle that newcomers are trained on, for the proper use and safe handling of firearms. Exposure to high-powered rifles doesn't usually come until later.

Start working towards your firearms license, and get some rim-fire experience under your belt.

Cheers,

Dean

[Brad09]

Well, I appreciate the wealth of information you've offered. I'm off to The Shooting Edge in Calgary in a few days to test-fire some different rifles in different calibers, which should be exciting. I'm lined up to take my non-restricted PAL test through TSE as well, toward the middle of February. My plan is hopefully to shoot regularly up until that point, pass the testing, get the necessary permits, purchase a rifle so that I can take it to the range and blast away all summer, and hopefully be prepared for the 2009 Fall season. Now from an experienced perspective, is this realistic, or does it take a little longer to get to know your rifle for hunting season? I don't want to go out hunting with a weapon that I'm less than sure of. How long did it take you to adapt to your first big-caliber rifle.

The general consensus is that a 30-06 Springfield seems to be a good starting point, and I think that it will be the main cartridge I center my test-firing around. Anyway, I thank you for your thoughts and knowledge, and hopefully you don't mind sharing some more knowledge with me.

Brad

[Brad09]

Okay, so firstly, thanks to everyone that posted here to share their knowledge.

And, after performing the "strong-eye, weak-eye" test, I've determined that not only am I left-handed, but my left eye focuses better. So that definitely points me to a left-handed rifle, correct?

Secondly, I'd like to just confirm for everyone that suggested a .22 rimfire rifle first that I am training on a .22 with my brother-in-law, who uses it for coyotes and gophers on his land. The only problem is that he's about 4 hours away, so my driving out there and returning takes place less often than I'd like. To supplement this, I'm planning on visiting The Shooting Edge. My understanding is that I can walk in there with no permits whatsoever, pay a fee, and shoot targets for an entire day. So I intend to use this experience for professional training, and perhaps to fire a few different calibers to see which one "fits" me the best. Can anyone else recommend a similar place?

It seems to me that between everyone here and some other hunters I've spoken with, the 30-06 Springfield is the best all-round cartridge for my purposes. Now, as far as brands of rifles go, I've heard a lot of talking about the Remington 700 series, and that they are available with synthetic stocks(which apparently aren't as completely necessary as I was led to believe) and stainless steel barrels. Can anyone comment on this rifle from personal experience? And as far as adapting a scope to it, is there some kind of sizing rule, or necessary hardware I need, or is it more of a "one size fits all" situation? I'm also curious about the going prices and licensed retailers. Come spring, hopefully I'll be in the thick of it at auctions and shows anyway to see what I can score on a bargain.

Another thing that came up when referring to manufacturer's backing for different ammunition, and all of the different types that you listed, is that a friend of mine(my Army vet buddy) hand-loads his own cartridges, and is more than willing to teach me to do it and make use of his equipment. Now, I've heard from some that hand-loading is the be-all and end-all, and some others have said that there is enough different spreads of ammunition in major calibers that for a guy like me, who wants to shoot a deer or two every year, that hand-loading is a waste of time and money. Can anyone offer a comment on that, knowing my situation?

I'd also like to verify that my planned timeline is realistic. I'm set to take the course and test for my non-restricted PAL in mid-February. My hope is that I can shoot at least semi-regularly at The Shooting Edge to gain some experience, and following getting my PAL, having a good idea of what I'm shopping for, and picking up a rifle and scope as quickly as possible. Now, if I were to acquire a rifle and optics by mid-March, is it reasonable to assume that shooting once or twice a week at a range, I could be prepared for the 2009 fall season, or is it more likely that I'd be waiting until 2010 before I get into the thick of it?

Thank you to everyone who recommended local Fish and Game associations and groups, the Sarcee group is one that I will definitely be checking out.

For those that were curious, I'm looking at hunting in the Buck Lake area, near my brother-in-law's place, since I know some folks that own land out there, and also not far out of Suffield, where I have family. I've heard that this is prime pronghorn area, but that it takes some time to get a pronghorn tag. Hopefully someone can recommend a few spots in those areas.

Now, if one is beginning to hunt white-tailed and mule deer, perhaps with his semi-experienced hunter brother-in-law, what is the preferred technique? Do I get myself a treestand and use scent lures and calls, or is it more productive to make a ghillie suit and crawl around in the brush in hopes of the shorter-range kill, or is there another technique more appealing to beginners? I'm sure each have their pros and cons, but if someone could just point me in the right direction, I'll figure it out through trial and error. I'm looking at hunting more for the experience, and for the satisfaction of seeing meat from the forest onto the table, so to speak.

Again, I appreciate everything that everyone has posted, and hopefully you'll all share some more knowledge.

[whitetailhntr]

i think you have this situation under control from what i'm reading.if you "blast away" all summer you will be fine come hunting season.Just remember that hunting is not the range.What i mean by that is don't just shoot from the bench all the time . Try to shoot from field positions,kneeling,sitting,offhand ect...so that you are prepaired for it when the time comes.Get some shooting sticks and learn to use them at the range as shooting from a rest is without a doubt a better option in any situation.I also agree with the thought of using a .22 rimfire, it will teach you trigger control,sight aligment and all of the other techniques involved with shooting at a lower cost and greatly reduces the chances of developing a flinch that can happen when starting with a high powered rifle.Flinching is a pain in the ass to cure once it starts(this i know from personal experience)Good luck and play safe.

P.s. be warned that guns and hunting are highly addictive!!

[FishBrain]

Welcome brad.
I am a new hunter this year. I purchased a .22 rifle in the spring and have been shooting it everychance I get. Its like shooting a loud pellet gun really. Once I got used to that I started my search for a High caliber rifle. Being left handed as well I found my choice was quickly limited to a few brands. I went to a few places and found the leftys and shouldered all of them (shoulder= pretend to aim) I found that the Tikka T3 lite in 30-06 was the most comfortable, after I decided on my weapon of choice, I started loking into scopes. I took a few words of advice from many people/internet sites and went with it. The advice is simple, find the scope price/model you are looking for and go up one level, the reason behind it was simple. if you buy the one you like it may end up letting you down but if you go one model higher than you will have it for a longer period of time and will find that it will still be good enough to work on the NEW rifle you buy years later.
I ended up with the Tikka 30-06 and a leupold V 4-12x40 scope. I really like it.
I took it up north with me to learn how to fire it properly and went to the range to get it (scope) fine tunedfor the season. At the range there were a number of people who were more than happy to answer any questions I had and even to lend a hand spotting to help get the scope sighted. After about 20 shots it was all setup and I was really getting used to it.
I have since been on a few hunting trips and taken my first deer, and I must say, even tho I was used to the kick and the aiming/trigger usage(??) when I got my dear in my sites it was all adreneline, very little thought. I understand that the more you shoot the more you are experience with your rifle. Hunting seems to be different in the way that an animal is totally different to shoot at than a paper target. Firing is the only way to get used to your rifle, shooting the deer is the only way to get used to your rifle for hunting purposes. I have found anyways.
Good luck on your purchase, the 30-06 is a great caliber and tons o fun to shoot.

Be ready to pay more because it is a left hannded rifle.