8 Year old shoots self in head at gun show with Uzi

[Rigg dogg]

mm

[FisherPotch]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

an Uzi was placed in the hands of an 8 year old,, thats "wrong" END OF STORY...

X2 that purdy much sums up the negligence right there. You would have to be a ******* idiot to think an Uzi has anyplace in the hands of an 8 year old. my 2 cent .

I put all fault at whomever put the gun in the kids hands. Too bad it was the kid whom suffered from that person’s negligence. My condolences to the family.

Originally Posted by Walleyes

So you honestly can't see where the negligence is in this situation ??? that worries me big time !!!! And yah I got no problem picking the preventable accidents from the not preventable ones,, its not really that difficult of a task.. As far as not knowing the whole story,, there's not much else to know,, an uzi was placed in the hands of an 8 year old,, thats "wrong" END OF STORY...

YAH ok Walleyes what ever you see it your way i see it mine .You seem to know so much my question is how my other young kid's at that "legal shoot" shot that gun or any gun for that matter befor that sad incident.

And yah I got no problem picking the preventable accidents from the not preventable ones,, its not really that difficult of a task..

WOW I GUESS THAT MAKES YOU SPECIAL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Rusty P. Bucket

Bah.

Idiots kill themselves and their kids in cars every day and nobody blinks an eye. The only reason this one got any press is because a gun was involved, and liberals are afraid of guns, especially the scary looking sport-utility guns.

Look for the usual suspects to spin this as some kind of earth shattering calamity and hype the tar out of it to sell copy. Get a bloody grip, people.

Oh please. When a local kid gets killed in an auto accident I read about that in the local press too. And there have been a zillion instances of government regulation to stop those sorts of deaths... seatbelt legislation, crash worthiness, airbags, speed limits, newly proposed legislation on cell phone use, safer road construction, licences and graduated licences... they even have a... gasp... car registry

There are plenty of gun deaths that never get more than a few lines of print outside the local paper. This one is just so tragic, preventable, and stupid to even the untrained eye that it gets some national play. I think that if a father let his 8 year old drive the car and it resulted in a fatal crash that would be getting some news play as well.

This instance and the various WEM gunrange shootings just shows how useless the claim of "qualified supervision" is if they don't exercise proper judgement. If the shooter is physically or mentally incompetent to handle the weapon (8 year old with automatic weapon), careless, or has ill-intent, no amount supervision is likely to save the day.

[Walleyes]

Originally Posted by Albertahog

YAH ok Walleyes what ever you see it your way i see it mine .You seem to know so much my question is how my other young kid's at that "legal shoot" shot that gun or any gun for that matter befor that sad incident.

WOW I GUESS THAT MAKES YOU SPECIAL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

No I'm not special at all A.B.hog I just have no problem seeing the obvious,, to bad you have to turn this into another personel attack thread,, but that is your style,, this thread is done for me,,, thx A.B.hog...

[uglyelk2]

Well looks like the State is investigating charges.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...Oxj2wD943T5LG1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p5eA...eature=related

This is a tragic event. Feel sorry for all who knew the lad.


I’m surprised at the feeding frenzy most are having over this. Everyone is quick to play Monday morning quarterback on this site. Guess I will too!

An uzi is a pea shooter. It has little recoil.

I don’t think many of us would claim a 9mm kicks.

The action of a full auto machine pistol absorbs much of the recoil. Just like semi auto rifles the recycling of gasses to work the action reduces the full recoil of the round being discharged.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6BV8...eature=related

Yup they still push back and the muzzle jumps. Look there is a small child shooting one in the video and he doesn’t kill himself. Maybe someone taught him how to hold it? Go figure! I suspect the child died at the range because he was not properly instructed. Therewill be lawsuits over this.

The anti’s will have a field day with this.

[uglyelk2]

Would I let my son fire one at 8?

No way he was two small and immature.

By 10, I wouldn't have had a problem with it, he had put on some weight and he had already proven he could handle the .45 competently.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by uglyelk2

An uzi is a pea shooter. It has little recoil.

I don’t think many of us would claim a 9mm kicks.

.

Well for you or me, yes. Obviously not for the 8 year old in question.

A gun-savvy parent may well know their kid's capabilities and train him competently over time. Someone at a gun show or gun range has no idea about the person into who's hands he's putting a lethal weapon. It's just nuts to do so, a total gamble.

Originally Posted by uglyelk2

An uzi is a pea shooter. It has little recoil.

How many full auto's have you shot? I shoot one about 3 times a year when I'm at the DFW Gun Range. The only auto I find that "rises" faster than an uzi is the Thompson. I will admit the first time I shot one I was glad the range officer was behind me with his hand on my shoulder. More rise than I ever would have imagined!!!


As far as the age of the kid, I will leave that to his parents to deal/live with. Not my call at all. but I have been on a shooting line with some youngster before, a bit scary.

Originally Posted by Walleyes

No I'm not special at all A.B.hog I just have no problem seeing the obvious,, to bad you have to turn this into another personel attack thread,, but that is your style,, this thread is done for me,,, thx A.B.hog...

another personal attack thread thats a easy way out :confused :you should look at yout own style frist and your welcome This thread is done for me also.

[Jeromeo]

Originally Posted by uglyelk2

An uzi is a pea shooter. It has little recoil.

I don’t think many of us would claim a 9mm kicks.

The action of a full auto machine pistol absorbs much of the recoil. Just like semi auto rifles the recycling of gasses to work the action reduces the full recoil of the round being discharged.

I'm sorry when was the last time you shot a 9mm or an uzi for that matter? They do kick. It's not exactly a rimfire but it does have recoil. Go fire one and keep in mind this child was probably 50 lbs.

[uglyelk2]

I find these forums very informative but I don’t post a lot because of all the keyboard commandos starting flame wars. This is a discussion forum, we offer our opinion. Take it or leave it, offer a response but don’t get personal….Think that’s how things are supposed to work in most of these internet forums. But they rarely do.


So on this thread I get a couple of interesting responses.

Originally Posted by 2430M

How many full auto's have you shot?

I kind of ignored this as I took it as a rhetorical question. Surely you intended it this way other wise your challenging my level of experience on the topic. I’ve claimed no expertise but it’s still kind of rude mate. It’s like saying you don’t know what the “f” you talking about. Not a very productive method of attempting to engage someone in discussion.

It may be more effective to explain what you disagree with and offer a counter point.

However it appears I’m getting a similar response in another post so I’ll answer your question, 2430M.

I’ve not had a heck of a lot of trigger time on full autos in the grand scheme of things.

First one was a 30 inch gun mounted on a Centurion tank. I guess that doesn’t count because they were mounted on 51 tons of steel…there was zero recoil.

Spent a few years shooting 9 mm sterling smg’s in the military.

Humped the FNC2 farther than any man should and I don’t miss having all those rounds hanging off my chest.

After I left the military there were some sks rifles modified to full auto that I played with. Poor mans AK, trick is to score the banana clips and drum mags. (And no I do not own any illegal weapons nor do promote it)


And there was a day with my buddies GAP.

So yes as you suspect not a lot of experience, But after x number of years and well over 10,000 rounds on automatic weapons ( nothing really because they add up quick) I feel rather comfortable saying 9mm smg’s are pop guns. (My experience / option)

So 2430M take my opinion with a grain of salt, I’m claiming no expert status here!

As far as the age of the kid, I will leave that to his parents to deal/live with. Not my call at all. But I have been on a shooting line with some youngster before, a bit scary.

I agree, I think it’s the parent’s call. And I’ve been on the range with some adult military types who have scared the crap out of me. Bottom line is if we hand someone a firearm we have a responsibility to ensure they handle it correctly.

Originally Posted by Jeromeo

I'm sorry when was the last time you shot a 9mm or an uzi for that matter? They do kick. It's not exactly a rimfire but it does have recoil. Go fire one and keep in mind this child was probably 50 lbs.

You are a sorry something dude! Just hacking on yeah Billy! When was the last time I shot 9mm….it’s been a while.

1) it’s hunting season the sidearms are on the back burner.

2) I have little value for the 9mm my wee son and 95 lb wife burn most of them off.

Long story short , It’s been about 3 weeks, put about 250 rounds down range. But spend most of my small arms time of the 40 or the 357 but I still remember what the wee ones feel like Jeromeo. I also remember what they feel like coming put of the barrel of a sub machine gun. Is that okay ?

Fifty pound eight year olds…Hmmm my kids just turned 13 and 16…But I think my 13 year old son was a wee bit larger than 50 pounds at 8. He’s 165 at the moment. Think he was 85 pounds in grade three.. Either your blowing smoke under our kilt about child weights…or your clan is polluting the gene pool. Babies are 8-10 pounds at birth, if they are only 5 babies large at eight years…I suspect they will not make it. Babies need to grow to survive. Your entire species might not make it…and that might be a good thing. With the rest of the humanoid species getting significantly larger I’m not sure if there’s a nitch wee folks…they didn’t make it in Ireland , I suspect they won’t make it here either!


Back to the debate,

Can a wee lad shoot a 9mmm uzi…absolutely if someone trained him. JMHO But hell I wouldn’t turn the poor little bugger out in the back yard with the mower without some proper direction either.

Why did this kid die…he was a kid without supervision. A never ever…pop ran for the camera and his instructor from the rental company was a 16 year old kid. Yeah let’s let kids teach kids how to shoot. Bet you he got all kinds of details before he died!


The original story showed a picture of a full size uzi. Definitely easier to control than the micro Uzi the kid died with.

Machine pistols…like GAP’ Micro Uzi’s are a waste of lead I my opinion….very hard to control…..smg’s…more controllable but still just produce a lead curtain that might hit something. Bottom line, they are not 22’s they are not center fire rifles. They are firearms and their fore dangerous if those handling then have not been trained in their use..

What blows my mind is the reponse this story receives on these forums. It’s very different than the response on uzi forums.

The uzi guys are pondering what was wrong with the RSO on site and the training. The Alberta outdoorsman forums sound like a bunch of anti gun nuts from Toronto. Man bad nature good….machine gun bad hunter good. The liberal machine has been far more effective selling their dogma than any of us suspected.

[Albertadiver]

Well, I started this thread because I was saddened by the death of an eight year old child.

Nonetheless, it seems to spiral into a thread of personal insults. If the one who had started the thread had the ability to close it I would be doing that.

Folks made points, issues were discussed, why do people on the internet always have to be in the right? (Don't answer that, I'm hoping this thread just falls off into the archives...)

[Bang Drop]

I won't bother quoting UglyElk2's post since that would make this one rather long, but in essence I agree with you.

The fact remains that any firearm, regardless of size, regardless of whether it is one shot or 10, regardless of whether it is fully automatic or not, is inherently dangerous in the hands of an 8 year old child. Proper training and supervision is required for anyone that age.

Kutenay wrote:
This kind of thing is WHY I, for one, and after 50+ years of shooting, a great deal of "professional training" and several accidental discharges WITHOUT any injuries or serious property damage, am quite concerned about the recent and growing fascination with "black guns" among so many younger and novice shooters.

The funny thing is, many of those so-called black guns have the identical action to them as hunting rifles, shoot the same calibers, etc. In some cases the gun is actually identical to a hunting rifle but has been painted black and had a larger capacity (pinned), curved magazine inserted into them. There is no difference in what a "black" gun can do versus a hunting rifle. They can only have 5 rounds like a hunting rifle, they may be pump, bolt, or semi-auto just like a hunting rifle. The only difference is how they look.

If the government alllowed so called "black guns" to be used for hunting, which for the record they could very ligitimately be used, there wouldn't be an issue. Just because the government and media would have you believe that a "black gun" is more evil than any other gun that doesn't mean you have to swallow that garbage. Believing that just starts you down the slippery slope to allowing more and more types of guns to be banned until your single shot cooey is gone too.

I honestly would NOT start a kid shooting until he is 12 and would also use the one cartridge per time rule. But, what is "cool" usually wins in contemporary society and thus we see tragedies like this. Wonder what Wendie will have to say about this?

I shoot competitively against several 12 year olds. They are safer at handling guns than many of the middle-aged and older gentleman who compete. They're also already a better shot than most. While there are many 12 year olds I would not let handle a gun, there are also many who are mature and responsible enough that I would have zero issue with it. It all comes down to proper training and supervision.

For the record, in regards to the 8 year old who was killed - his father was a moron for letting his kid try it and his kid paid the ultimate price. That has nothing to do with the gun, gun laws, or whether it was a black gun or a hunting gun. Unfortunately we can't ban stupidity.

[The Bit Runner.]

All i can say is WOW,What happened to kids learning how to shoot a 22 first
one bullet at a time.This story is very disturbing.