Rimfire Groups -let’s see ‘em!

[dave99]

I was going through some old files this morning and came across a target that I kept from my competitive biathlon days. Dates back to 2006 or so, but it was a target worth keeping. The targets were shot at resting heart rates.

Rifle: Anschutz 1827 Fortner
Ammo: Lapua Master
Optics: Anschutz peep sight
Location: Canmore Nordic Centre
Date: Approx. June 2006

Top target is prone position, and sling-supported (no rest) 10-shot at 50m.



Bottom target is free standing 10-shot at 50m, with no supportive clothing.



It was nice to take a walk through memory lane, as almost all of my shooting now is CF.


Post up some targets and details!!







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[Kurt505]

I’ve only been out once shooting targets other than cans or dandilions so far. Zero’d thescope on the center middle target then shot eight 5-shot groups with 2 different types of ammo. Nothing great, CZ 455 varmint 50yds on a bench using a pack for a rest.

[Coiloil37]

I’ve only ever shot paper twice with my CZ 452.

This was the first time. 50 yards over a log for a rest, 3 shots and a 2x power leupold scope





This was from December. Ten rounds, 30-35 yards, 4x leupold with a front rest.



Some context for target size (printed on A4 paper)






I feed it the cheap federal hollow points. The 550 round box, seems to like em.

[dave99]

Coil, that 10-shot at 35m is unreal. It’s one hole! Well done fellas.

Kurt, I’m following your new rifle thread with interest because I’m working on my own middle distance rifle and feel like I have a lot to learn...


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[little smoky]

Some good groups

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by dave99

Coil, that 10-shot at 35m is unreal. It’s one hole! Well done fellas.

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I’m quite happy with it myself. Next time I head out I’ll be shooting a few groups to see how she really does. I’m guessing that can’t be normal for that rifle but I can hope. Shooting it off a real rest and at a few different targets should tell the tale.

[catnthehat]

My Russion match rifle slung up with the irons



off the bench irons
Both were shot at 25 meters
Both ten shot groups
Absolutely dead calm and no clouds
Things tend to get crazy past 25, with wind, light, fatigue, etc coming into effect
And of course, none of my groups or scores matter to me really, unless they were shot in a match, they just give me an indication of what I SHOULD be able to do when the " fire when ready"" order is given!
Cat

[Dick284]

Load testing with the boys Zastava Z5.

50 yds, all are 10 shot groups.

[dave99]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Load testing with the boys Zastava Z5.



50 yds, all are 10 shot groups.

Win Dynapoint for the win!


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[elkhunter11]

A couple of 50m five shot groups.

[260 Rem]

Shot these while looking for the best among Federal from an Annie 1710 at 50M. Pretty easy to compare when shot on the same sheet. Can’t recall shooting that rig after that day. Yes, it is for sale

[dave99]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A couple of 50m five shot groups.

Elk, that’s a super rig. What Zeiss scope is on it? And fantastic shooting.

I have visited the Anschutz factory in Ulm, Germany on 3 occasions. The first was to pick up my first 1827 Fortner as a 20 year old. The latter two times was to do barrel and ammunition testing in a purpose-made vise held within a freezer to test barrel and ammo combinations at different sub-zero temperatures, going down to -20 Celsius. Using the data collected from their test facility, I would pick a barrel and ammo, including specific lot number of ammo to shoot in competition.

My point is, that the only the BEST 5-shot 50m groups produced from the vise with the rifle at sub zero temperatures at the factory looked as pretty as Elk’s groups above. Color me impressed...


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[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dave99

Elk, that’s a super rig. What Zeiss scope is on it? And fantastic shooting.

I have visited the Anschutz factory in Ulm, Germany on 3 occasions. The first was to pick up my first 1827 Fortner as a 20 year old. The latter two times was to do barrel and ammunition testing in a purpose-made vise held within a freezer to test barrel and ammo combinations at different sub-zero temperatures, going down to -20 Celsius. Using the data collected from their test facility, I would pick a barrel and ammo, including specific lot number of ammo to shoot in competition.

My point is, that the only the BEST 5-shot 50m groups produced from the vise with the rifle at sub zero temperatures at the factory looked as pretty as Elk’s groups above. Color me impressed...

The rifle is a 1927F, the scope is a Zeiss HD-5 5-25x50, mounted in Talley bases and rings. I was using RWS Championship Edition, which I bought for about $550 per case of 5000. It averages in the .3"s, but it has shot several sub .25" groups with that load. I haven't tried high end loads in the rifle.

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

These were shot at 100M as all the 50M benches were taken. I also forgot my rear bag and was using a balled up pair of gloves which I am sure induced a bit of vertical as they are not nearly as steady as what I am used to.

Ammo is Eley Biathlon, it is supposed to be better in the cold but the wax on it still froze pretty quick. I am currently getting a very high FTF rate of around 10%. I am assuming it is grease in the bolt freezing but I could be wrong.

The 8 round group was intended to be a 10 rounder but with 2 FTFs in the mag I gave up. Edit - Counting the holes I only see 7 so maybe it is 7 but I thought it was 8.

[zabbo]

Shot these two a couple years back. Must admit, indoor range with a nice comfortable rest. 17 HMR is still a rim fire so I suppose they count. I have to say there are some pretty impressive targets prior to these, but I still pop gophers out to 150 yds on a regular basis, so not bad for an old guys I guess. .

[dave99]

Zabbo: That’s a pretty impressive shot to hit a gopher at 150yds. I’ve never owned a 17hmr, and I’m curious what the holdover would be to score a hit at 150yds? Assuming zeroed at 50 yd.


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[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dave99

Zabbo: That’s a pretty impressive shot to hit a gopher at 150yds. I’ve never owned a 17hmr, and I’m curious what the holdover would be to score a hit at 150yds? Assuming zeroed at 50 yd.


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My 17HMR averages around 3/4" at 100m. at 150 yards, the drop is about 2-1/2", so not bad at all. The 17 hornet really takes over after 150 yards, and works well to over 250 yards.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by dave99

Zabbo: That’s a pretty impressive shot to hit a gopher at 150yds. I’ve never owned a 17hmr, and I’m curious what the holdover would be to score a hit at 150yds? Assuming zeroed at 50 yd.


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Bought the 17 several years ago on the advice of a buddy. My 22's rarely see the light of day any more. Only thing I don't like about the 17 is paying for ammo. LOL. Anyway, if you notice the 25 yd target is almost dead center and the 50 yd target is 1/4 to 1/2 inch high. Can't exactly recall from the ballistics charts I used to sight in, but I think that should have put it about centered at 100 yds. Generally, on a calm day, with a gopher standing up, I put the cross hairs at the top of the head and that's all she wrote. It is definitely high for shorter ranges, so the bigger issue is hold under for those shots. Love that 17! Funnest rifle I have ever owned!

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My 17HMR averages around 3/4" at 100m. at 150 yards, the drop is about 2-1/2", so not bad at all. The 17 hornet really takes over after 150 yards, and works well to over 250 yards.

Have thought about getting into a smaller caliber center fire a few times, (.204, 22 hornet, or some version of .17), but that probably means staring to reload and to be honest I've been spending most of my summers fly fishing the oldman drainage. So much to do and so little time.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by zabbo

Have thought about getting into a smaller caliber center fire a few times, (.204, 22 hornet, or some version of .17), but that probably means staring to reload and to be honest I've been spending most of my summers fly fishing the oldman drainage. So much to do and so little time.

Load in winter, shoot in summer.

[Coiloil37]

My CZ in 17 HMR got sold when I realized I could shoot my .223 for the same price per round. Had I been smart I would of realized that before I bought the .17 but...???? I wanted another rifle.
Imo it’s a totally pointless round that does nothing the centerfires don’t do better for the same money.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

My CZ in 17 HMR got sold when I realized I could shoot my .223 for the same price per round. Had I been smart I would of realized that before I bought the .17 but...???? I wanted another rifle.
Imo it’s a totally pointless round that does nothing the centerfires don’t do better for the same money.

To a certain degree I am of the same mind about liking the center fire rounds, but 17 HMR is still available for $17/50, or 34 cents a round, on sale. I have a hard time finding factory 223 soft point or 17 Hornet (last Cabela's sale price I saw was $26/25) for anywhere near that cheap. I can load 17HH, 22 H, 223 and 17 FB for about the same as 17 HMR but that doesn't factor in my time.

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by Dean2

To a certain degree I am of the same mind about liking the center fire rounds, but 17 HMR is still available for $17/50, or 34 cents a round, on sale. I have a hard time finding factory 223 soft point or 17 Hornet (last Cabela's sale price I saw was $26/25) for anywhere near that cheap. I can load 17HH, 22 H, 223 and 17 FB for about the same as 17 HMR but that doesn't factor in my time.

I’m talking about my reloads. I have to do something with my time, if I’m on days off doing something I need to do or enjoy I don’t break it down in price reflecting my day rate. That would take the fun out of everything and isn’t a way I would want to live my life. If I’m at work it’s easy, I expect to get paid.

I think about it like this.

17 hmr for 34 cents a round gives me a 150 yard rifle that will maybe flip a gopher 5’ in the air vs 28 cents a round for .223 thats good to 300 yards and will probably cut him in half and pop at least one half 20’ in the air. Hmmmmmm

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dean2

To a certain degree I am of the same mind about liking the center fire rounds, but 17 HMR is still available for $17/50, or 34 cents a round, on sale. I have a hard time finding factory 223 soft point or 17 Hornet (last Cabela's sale price I saw was $26/25) for anywhere near that cheap. I can load 17HH, 22 H, 223 and 17 FB for about the same as 17 HMR but that doesn't factor in my time.

Cabelas had 17HMR on sale for under $15 a few weeks ago, at that price it may be slightly cheaper than loading 17 hornet, but at $20, I can load the 17hornet cheaper.

[Groundhogger]

I have a few types of ammo yet to test, but, my Anschutz seems to really like SK Rifle Match. Oddly enough, it really likes CCI SV as well, but the odd flyer using CCI makes it more of a plinking ammo when I have it out.

I've over-posted this photo, but here is the rifle;



Here are some 50 yard, 5-shot groups;

CCI SV



SK Rifle Match

[6.5 shooter]

Personally I think testing your ammo at 50 Yards is a waste of time and ammo....Most if not all ammo will produce decent, 10 shot groups at 50 yds.... but take that same ammo and test at 100yds. and the true winners will jump right off the target. Like Elk, Dyna points were winners and cheap...But as gopher rounds they are not overly reliable, expansion wise..CCI mini mags are no quite as accurate but preform better in putting the gophers down . so I sacrificed a bit of accuracy for Lethality ...

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Personally I think testing your ammo at 50 Yards is a waste of time and ammo....Most if not all ammo will produce decent, 10 shot groups at 50 yds.... but take that same ammo and test at 100yds. and the true winners will jump right off the target. Like Elk, Dyna points were winners and cheap...But as gopher rounds they are not overly reliable, expansion wise..CCI mini mags are no quite as accurate but preform better in putting the gophers down . so I sacrificed a bit of accuracy for Lethality ...

^that hasn't been my experience at all. lol Depending on the rifle and ammo, the difference can be significant

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

^that hasn't been my experience at all. lol Depending on the rifle and ammo, the difference can be significant

My experience as well. My Anschutz and Cooper rifles will all do sub moa to 100m with the lower end match loads, but that can double with the cheap bulk loads that many people shoot in their 22lr. I carry cheap Federal HP loads for my Henry AR-7 for protection from coyotes when running my dog, and they are definitely not my choice for precision shooting, but they function 100% in the semi auto, and at less than 50 yards, with the crude open sights, I have killed three coyotes with them. When I sighted in the AR-7, those loads only do around 3" at 50m, but when a pack of coyotes approaches us at close range, my priority is reliability, a coyote at close range, doesn't require a lot of precision.

[Kurt505]

I replaced the stock on my rifle and shot these groups, most are 5-shot groups and I used 4 or 5 different types of ammo. The SK ammo and Eley ammo shot way better than the CCI and Federal. With both SK and Eley I was able to shoot some tight groups but I still haven’t tried the expensive $15/box) stuff, $9 is as much as I wanted to spend.

Twenty-two groups (11 on each target and .22lr) @ 52yd groups

[Big Sky]

How was the wax coating on the bullets?

With these temperatures I find it tough to get good accuracy.
I save my pricier ammo for when the temps increase. In this weather, I just shoot high velocity, copper plated round nose.

Save a few bucks.
Get decent accuracy.
Have some fun