RCMP move to ban semi-automatic rifles

[BRU375]

So, I almost threw up in my coffee this morning. CBC reports that the RCMP is moving agressively under the Criminal Code to ban semi-automatic firearms. They said that they requested the update to the criminal code under the Conservatives they were ignored but the Liberals have confirmed they will go ahead with the update immediately "while undergoing consultations" which means they will arrange to have at least some, (probably all) semi-automatic rifle owners turn in their rifles in or be found in contravention of the criminal code.

I dont think anyone on here will be surprised by this move. next they will probably go after hunting and fishing rights.

From the CBC this morning

The number of military-style firearms that can be temporarily jury-rigged to become automatic weapons has increased "dramatically" in Canada over the last decade — and so has the public-safety risk.

That's the stark conclusion of an internal RCMP laboratory report on improvised methods for upgrading semi-automatic weapons, and for illegally altering magazine clips to allow for rapid continuous fire.


The lab report notes that Criminal Code regulations designed to thwart makeshift upgrades may not apply to newer generations of weapons, creating a legal void.

"The restricted and prohibited firearm provisions of Criminal Code regulations were last updated in 1995, and there are presently numerous models of military and paramilitary firearms on the Canadian market which are outside the scope of the Criminal Code regulations, many being non-restricted in classification," says the 15-page report.

"The Canadian introduction of new types of military and paramilitary firearms not mentioned in the Criminal Code regulations, nearly all with large capacity magazines sizes, started circa 2005 and has accelerated since."

"The public safety threat posed by improvised conversion to full automatic fire has correspondingly increased."


RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson alerted then public safety minister Steven Blaney last year to potential legislative gaps in Criminal Code gun provisions. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)

A heavily censored version of the internal report, dated November 2014, was obtained by CBC News under the Access to Information Act.

CBC News has previously reported on the RCMP's concerns about improvised assault-weapon upgrades, an issue raised by RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson directly with then public safety minister Steven Blaney last year. But the detailed Mountie lab work documenting the issue was released only in the last week.

Last summer, Blaney rejected legislative changes to close any regulatory gap, saying the current law was sufficient. The Conservative government also passed Bill C-42 giving cabinet — not the RCMP — the final say about which weapons to restrict or ban, after the Mounties were slapped down for trying to get a popular semi-automatic withdrawn from Canada.

Some rifles could be banned

But the new Liberal government has promised to "put decision-making about weapons restrictions back into the hands of police, not politicians," raising the possibility the RCMP may yet be able to get some semi-automatics taken off the market.

A Mountie spokesman, Sgt. Harold Pfleiderer, would not say whether the RCMP is pressing the new Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale to act on the issue. "The RCMP does not comment on the advice it provides to the minister," he said in an email.

A spokesman for Goodale reiterated the Liberal government's commitment to get "assault weapons off our streets," but said consultations are needed first.

'We will work ... to move forward on this commitment.'
–Spokesman for Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale
"We will work with all levels of government, our stakeholders and the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee to move forward on this commitment," said Scott Bardsley.

Among the Liberals' election commitments is to broaden membership of the firearms committee to include representatives of women's groups and public-health advocates. Critics have said the committee is stacked with gun proponents.

The RCMP lab tested 11 models of rifles and one pistol, including the weapon used by Marc Lepine in the 1989 Montreal massacre and the semi-automatic used by Justin Bourque in the 2014 Mountie shootings in Moncton, N.B.

The testing was prompted by Bourque's statement to police that he had considered using an improvised technique to turn his rifle into an automatic weapon.

The report says more than 1,200 test shots were fired between July and November 2014, using a technique that is "widely reported on the internet complete with installation and fitting instructions." The name of the technique is blacked out in the documents, but has been known in gun circles for decades, and information about at least one other technique also circulates.

New firearms on market

The Criminal Code regulations in the 1990s effectively protected against any upgrades "by taking the firearms most practical for conversion to full automatic fire off the civilian market," says the document, authored by Murray A. Smith, manager with the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program.

"Thus, the public safety risk posed by improvised conversion techniques was largely negated and rendered moot, and not requiring much police attention."

But the proliferation of new firearms since 2005 has increased the risk to the public, augmented by the availability of new magazines.

Ralph Goodale
Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale will be reviewing Canada's gun legislation to restore decision-making about restricted weapons to the RCMP rather than leaving it to cabinet. (CBC)

"Large capacity magazines are widely available for the military and paramilitary firearms, and although limited in capacity by law and generally reduced to five shots by a pin or similar modification, the original capacity is typically readily restorable."

"The materials required for improvised full automatic fire are ordinary everyday products."

Upgrading any weapon to fully automatic status is clearly prohibited by Section 102(1) of the Criminal Code, with prison terms of up to 10 years. But Smith's report raises questions about the current effectiveness of 20-year-old Criminal Code regulations as they apply to newer weapons shown in lab tests to be "amenable to the improvised full automatic fire technique."

[OpenRange]

This would need to be voluntary I imagine. Lots of semi's are non restricted and since the gun registry is gone it's almost impossible for the RCMP to track down and collect them. Sounds like the Liberals are trying to appease citidiots again.

[Kim473]

Originally Posted by OpenRange

This would need to be voluntary I imagine. Lots of semi's are non restricted and since the gun registry is gone it's almost impossible for the RCMP to track down and collect them. Sounds like the Liberals are trying to appease citidiots again.

Registry is gone but do you really think that all the information it had was distroyed ? I don't think so.

[pintailslammer]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Registry is gone but do you really think that all the information it had was distroyed ? I don't think so.

x2


pin

[TripleTTT]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Registry is gone but do you really think that all the information it had was distroyed ? I don't think so.

It's gone all right, takes my son 9 months to get his pal, he's had military experience too.

Took me 3 weeks. I had a FAC back in '92

Still think that the gun registry was destroyed?

[raab]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

It's gone all right, takes my son 9 months to get his pal, he's had military experience too.

Took me 3 weeks. I had a FAC back in '92

Still think that the gun registry was destroyed?

Did he get restricted and you get non-restricted? I had mine in hand 5 weeks after taking the course. Also 3 weeks sounds quick, I believe there's a 28 day waiting period before you get your PAL once the documents are sent in.

[TripleTTT]

Originally Posted by raab

Did he get restricted and you get non-restricted? I had mine in hand 5 weeks after taking the course. Also 3 weeks sounds quick, I believe there's a 28 day waiting period before you get your PAL once the documents are sent in.

Both are non-restricted. We took the course in Didsbury. Good times... good people.

[trooper]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Registry is gone but do you really think that all the information it had was distroyed ? I don't think so.

I have sold and purchased rifles since the registry was abandoned. I have no rifles that were purchased by me prior to when the registry was abolished, so how does this affect me and others who have done the same?

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by trooper

I have sold and purchased rifles since the registry was abandoned. I have no rifles that were purchased by me prior to when the registry was abolished, so how does this affect me and others who have done the same?

Again, I ask, what good is the firearm(s) if you can't even use it? Just to look at? Waste of money in my opinion, but hey people spend a fortune on pictures too....

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Again, I ask, what good is the firearm(s) if you can't even use it? Just to look at? Waste of money in my opinion, but hey people spend a fortune on pictures too....

The concern is bureaucrat who makes changes to control perceived deficiencies.

[elkhunter11]

Also, shooting ranges should advertise and have more days where they are open to the public to promote the sport.

Less and less ranges are open to the public, and some don't even allow guests to discharge firearms on the property. This trend will continue because of the liability that the club faces if there was to be an incident, and because the existing ranges are becoming busier and busier. My former club used to have free sight in days for the public, but they were discontinued because of the safety issues that resulted from having people that had no clue as to range safety, and because so many non members came out, that it reduced opportunity for the paying members at the most busiest time of the year. And with some clubs implementing membership caps, how do you justify allowing non members to use the facilities when you are turning away people willing to pay for a membership?

[vcmm]

Hope this works.
Notice how he calls it a device not a weapon.
We are suppose to trust him/them.

https://youtu.be/YZzHAR0BkPg

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Registry is gone but do you really think that all the information it had was distroyed ? I don't think so.

Lotta guns changed hands since the registry... I know I sold all of mine.

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Lotta guns changed hands since the registry... I know I sold all of mine.

Can't blame you. Especially if you still had some that were going to become restricted. They'd be worthless because if you get caught using it, you stand a good chance of loosing all your firearms. No use hanging on to something that's possibly going to become useless and worthless.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by raab

I've been in the middle of a pack of wolves. They didn't bother with me. For backcountry I'd feel a hell of a lot safer with a Shotgun that holds 5 rounds then a rifle holding 15-30. Id also like to see an open carry pemit available for those in the back country.

Until someone figures that 5 is too many. 4 is enough for a mass shooting. So what? Down to double barrel or single shot? Now consider that in high stress shootings the number of rounds that you need for stoppage or misses.

Would someone's elderly grandmother be able to handle your shotgun? Or would something with lighter recoil and the ability to shoot quickly fit the bill?

Originally Posted by raab

That's why you count, you know when he has to reload. Also how many mags is the perp gonna be able to buy? And carry? Let's say he buys 4 normal mags that gives him 20 shots. Buy 4 high capacity mags and he has 60-120.

How many times in a mass shooting has an unarmed citizen stopped the shooter?? Heck in Montreal the scum bag told all the guys to leave, and they filed right past him and did nothing.

Originally Posted by raab

I agree to an extent that guns aren't the issue. Mental health is the biggest issue surrounding gun violence. I think we should be focusing more on that aspect and getting people the help they need. But in saying that there are some things the average citizen shouldn't have. IMO if you want to shoot prohibited weapons join the CAF or your local reserves.

Originally Posted by raab

Where did I say people can't have guns. I'm sorry but I see no reason for people to have fully automatic weapons in this country. The whole your either for or against guns argument is stupid. I don't think people need fully automatic weapons so they can play commando on the weekends. You want to do that then join the reserves and have the fully automatic rifles stored at a facility some ******* perp can't break into.

Yeah, store them at a central location. That always works out well. Other than defeating the purpose of law abiding citizens having access.

Originally Posted by raab

I haven't decided about open carry in the city. Simply because I've seen way to many stabbings and there are a ton of resources so response times usually aren't an issue.

I do support the open carry in rural communities and the wilderness and would like to see that at some point.

Really? When's the last time you've seen a knife fight ended with a cell phone?

**Hands wife cell phone as deranged man with machete approaches in underground parking. "Take him out, Babe."**

Originally Posted by raab

I understand the laws, which is why I don't mind them looking at guns that might be made fully automatic that have magazines that can be easily modified to hold more rounds. I'm not fully in support of this, just think some people are jumping to conclusions as usual on this board. We have no facts to go on right now, besides that they may make some guns prohibited. Does anyone have a list of the guns they're even looking at?

You think that guns are easily modified to auto, yet the same guy can't manufacture a few magazines?? Holy fark! You need electro-shock therapy!

Craa-azzyyy!

[Lefty-Canuck]

I guess the SBE2 will all need to be turned in, they have "super" "black" and "eagle" in the same name....they must be a scary instrument of death! And semi-auto too!

Hold onto your hats kids...many declared a victory after the Registry was abolished, the Libs promised no registry....so they go straight to bans and confiscation instead.

We haven't "won" a damn thing yet.

LC

[BRU375]

I would agree with you except when we all buy rifles we have to give our PALS, If you buy at Cabela's or Bass Pro they are coying that Pal info down on a sheet and that is registered with the stores..wouldnt take anything for the RCMP to demand that the stores provide them that information if they make it a criminal offense to own a semi-automatic rifle. I dont think they will keep it limited to Restricted rifles, they will definately re-classify non-restricted semi's to fall under the criminal code. Its a slippery slope and now that they have the power back they will accelerate the process.

[BRU375]

Of course they will move to ban semi rifles and shotguns from law abiding citizens because we are easy pickings. When was the last time you heard our RCMP or city police make a tangible raid and bust on real organized crime? hardly ever.

[wolf308]

Dunno what to say. Great. Those morons. **** the police. Comes to mind.

[BuckCuller]

There is a link in the CBC article to another article where a Judge wants tighter gun laws because a southern Alberta man was shot for pointing a black umbrella at police. They some how knew there was five guns in his house. The registry is still out there and they are scratching for anything to punish legal gun owners instead of making tougher punishments on criminals and sickos. Property gets stolen every day in criminal activity to support larger criminal activity and all the cops say is you have insurance right so what's the big deal. There was clearly prints all over my bros sled when they found it and would not print it because it was a waste of their time. It seems like criminals have more rights than you and I we are not aloud to protect our own property or ourselves.
I would love to quote Charltin Hesston right about now.

[Twisted Canuck]

Yup, taking the power of firearm classification out of the hands of politicians (that are elected) and putting it in the hands of police (who have no agenda whatsoever )....sounds like a good Liberal plan. But let's not act surprised, we knew this was coming. Doesn't matter how many sign the AR petition (and I did and my family has), we are officially on the brink of the slippery slope.

And once all the banning is done, and our scary guns are all confiscated and we are all safe, we can sleep better at nights knowing criminals will no longer have access to all these scary guns that were taken from the hands of law abiding citizens. Such a crock of liberal social engineering crap.

[bat119]

The only way such a "ban" could work is what they did in Australia buy the guns from the owners at +50% of retail. Most owners were happy with the compensation they received.
One Aussie told me his Dad left home pizzed off with his favorite semi auto shotgun, came home happy as a clam with two over and unders. The registry was only a ploy to take an inventory of all the firearms in peoples possession so they could confiscate them for free it had nothing to do with public safety or law enforcement.

Down under the guys are not happy about giving up their semi's however the hunting and shooting is still going strong.

[Savage addict]

Let's just not forget one of the most recent mass killings in Canadian history..... It happened in Calgary...... Anyone? It was a police officers son..... Yeah that's right. Killed 5 people I seem to recall. With a KNIFE!!! People are resilient. Gun, knife, rock, stick. Doesn't matter. A predator wants its prey dead, it's gonna happen. Why is the one thing I love so much, SO controversial? I hope this never goes through. Mostly because I'd hate to lose a few thousand I spent on my tavor. Though they might give $200 for all guns turned in.

[dmcbride]

The hypocrisy of the Liberals is amazing. The refugee's pose more of a risk than this fear mongering article.

[darren32]

Originally Posted by BRU375

I would agree with you except when we all buy rifles we have to give our PALS, If you buy at Cabela's or Bass Pro they are coying that Pal info down on a sheet and that is registered with the stores..wouldnt take anything for the RCMP to demand that the stores provide them that information if they make it a criminal offense to own a semi-automatic rifle. I dont think they will keep it limited to Restricted rifles, they will definately re-classify non-restricted semi's to fall under the criminal code. Its a slippery slope and now that they have the power back they will accelerate the process.

That is not what I have been told for non restricted. At Cabela's I bought a rifle a couple of weeks ago and told the guy that he should have me on file because I had bough several rifles from them. He told me they DO NOT retain the record (of who bought which rifle) because of the privacy act. He seemed knowledgeable and said he was ex-RCMP. Actually had a pretty good chat with the guy. Can anyone confirm?

[Stinky Buffalo]

Here's a link to the article.

Some good comments so far.

[5Lgreenback]

I wasn't aware of all these crimes being committed in Canada with these make shift "automatic assault rifles".

What a bunch of fear mongering crap.

Its interesting the difference in law enforcements attitude towards legal firearm ownership in Canada vs US. You would think the police are dealing with shootouts with licensed firearm owners constantly up here to justify their attitudes.

[ArtG]

Even if the RCMP demand for the PAL record of everyone who bought a semi-automatic gun that really means nothing. The gun could have been gifted or sold privately and there is no way of tracking that. My first gun was a gift from the in-laws.

[JustMe]

Big deal, what good will having the semi be if it's banned? You can'y take it out in public to use it or you'll face confiscation and subsequent penalty if seen? Makes them pretty much worthless....

Originally Posted by ArtG

Even if the RCMP demand for the PAL record of everyone who bought a semi-automatic gun that really means nothing. The gun could have been gifted or sold privately and there is no way of tracking that. My first gun was a gift from the in-laws.

[last2shoot]

Originally Posted by darren32

That is not what I have been told for non restricted. At Cabela's I bought a rifle a couple of weeks ago and told the guy that he should have me on file because I had bough several rifles from them. He told me they DO NOT retain the record (of who bought which rifle) because of the privacy act. He seemed knowledgeable and said he was ex-RCMP. Actually had a pretty good chat with the guy. Can anyone confirm?

This is directly from Cabela's "privacy officer"
----------------------------------------------------
Cabela’s Canada does not keep a ledger of retail firearm sales for non-restricted firearms which includes your person information such as your name or address. We do keep your PAL # associated with a non-restricted firearm purchase only to prove if challenged that we sold the firearm to an individual legally able to purchase the firearm with a non-expired PAL # at the time. These firearm records are not available to any outside agency with a court order and are not shared with the Canadian Firearm Center. As you are aware – CFC has no authority to mandate any recording or reporting to them of any non-restricted firearm sales records. As a valued customer at Cabela’s Canada we safe guard any sales record, firearms related or not, to the highest standards of security.
---------------------------------------------------------

First, the PAL # is kept with the serial number and information of the firearm.
The PAL # of course leads directly to YOU.
Secondly, court orders can get anything from anybody, even the PM office. So Cabela's is full of sh*t.
Thirdly, the liberals will create new laws that will mandate Cabela's to turn over the PAL # and firearm registration.

Lastly, the firearm act specifically states that no information needs to be recorded for non-restricted firarms:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regula...38/page-1.html

By keeping your PAL# Cabelas is obviously trampling on your privacy rights, and is more worried about public perception in case of an event and not you, their customer. As long as people keep buying guns from Cabelas without complaint Cabelas will keep violating your rights. Let's be clear, there is NO law requiring them to keep your PAL#. All they have to do is verify it at the time of purchase. Cabelas is doing this voluntarily.

I just ordered 2 rifles, one is in the store now waiting for me to pick up. The other is on the way. But now that I have 'cleared' up any misconceptions, I am not picking either rifle up and am in search of more honest retailers.