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05-22-2020, 03:01 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
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Fishing in Indigenous territory?
Apologies if this is a dumb question but I've searched everywhere and I couldn't find the answer to this.
I want to fish the bow south of Gleichen which happens to be in the Siksika 146 region. What exactly are the rules with fishing the bow in first nations territory? Would that be considered trespassing? I went on the Alberta Government website and it doesn't say that the Bow River is a harvestable lake for the first nations so I'm thinking I should be fine but I don't wanna accidentally trespass or anything like that.
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05-22-2020, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,557
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from what I gather you cant fish/hunt on res land unless invited and accompanied by a native buddy....
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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05-22-2020, 03:07 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bonnyville
Posts: 397
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Most reservations require you to go to the band office and get permission from the chief or one of the administrators.
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05-22-2020, 03:10 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schleprock
Most reservations require you to go to the band office and get permission from the chief or one of the administrators.
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ya I wouldn't just go off of that cuz the chief said so as a truck of good ol'boys pulls up...trust me....a native buddy with you goes a log way....just saying.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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05-22-2020, 04:11 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 203
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A thought
I rarely jump into these native or politically charged conversations.
To me ...
Lands of Canada (that aren't privately owned) are just that ... Lands of Canada so help me understand how a native group or reservation or territory is different from a Land of Canada.
How can one group dictate access to federal land? There is one Nation ... that nation is Canada and within the country many many groups, populations, ethnicities live but to presume that one group/population etc can legally prevent fellow citizens of the country access is non-sensical to me.
Again ... this isn't meant to be a flame toward natives or rights etc ... more so a commentary about an overarching country made up of groups, populations and ethnicities that live within the country - all with equal rights under the one country.
Northern
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05-22-2020, 04:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 820
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Fishing
I always thought you could fish below the traditional high water line. But still it still could be a problem getting to such a spot unless you are floating the river
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05-22-2020, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schleprock
Most reservations require you to go to the band office and get permission from the chief or one of the administrators.
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This. I know at gift lake it states permission needed from the band.
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05-22-2020, 04:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,487
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FN traditional territory you are good to go but FN reserves you need permission. Some bands won’t grant permission, some a friend on the reserve and your good, some charge access fee, and others don’t care
It varies a lot and if you don’t have a friend on the reservation in question find the number for the band office. Call the band office and ask if it’s possible to get permission to fish the area in question.
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05-22-2020, 04:45 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 203
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My thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
This. I know at gift lake it states permission needed from the band.
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This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.
I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.
Northern
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05-22-2020, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: calgary
Posts: 1,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anorthernhunter
This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.
I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.
Northern
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I sure wouldn't want to test that in court. Could be reeeal expensive!
How is it that national railroads can be barricaded with virtually no repercussions?? I learned a long time ago, "Life ain't fair"!
Last edited by zabbo; 05-22-2020 at 05:22 PM.
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05-22-2020, 04:58 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zabbo
I sure wouldn't want to test that int court. Probably be reeeal expensive!
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Probably lose too.
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05-22-2020, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anorthernhunter
This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.
I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.
Northern
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Serious question. Are you new to Canada?
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05-22-2020, 05:01 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 203
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yup
Serious answer ...
Yup ... born here 51 years ago.
Why the question?
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05-22-2020, 05:07 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anorthernhunter
Serious answer ...
Yup ... born here 51 years ago.
Why the question?
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Well then you already know indigenous people have privileges that the other people of Canada do not. Just seems odd that you sound surprised by this.
Hence the question.
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05-22-2020, 05:10 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anorthernhunter
This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.
I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.
Northern
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Indian reserves are basically private land. FN territory is a different story and is still crown land
Doesn’t matter if we agree with the laws or not it is what it is
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05-22-2020, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 203
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My thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Well then you already know indigenous people have privileges that the other people of Canada do not. Just seems odd that you sound surprised by this.
Hence the question.
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Like I said, I rarely speak up about these emotionally charged and individually biased topics (meaning one side believes they are correct and won't budge and the other side the same - so nothing moves forward). I kick myself for jumping in on this one as I can see how mods shut down these threads as they deteriorate.
I will be more judicious with my postings moving forward.
"Privileges that other people in Canada do not" whether by Natives or by any other groups within Canada, at times, can be the catalyst to friction.
I was simply pointing out that we are one country ... made up of a mosaic of groups, ethnicities, populations etc ... and for one of those groups to insist on preventing access to another citizen of Canada (key point) for the simple action of fishing in a stream or lake or ocean seems counter to the idea of one country for all.
Anyway. I will leave it at that ... as I said - my opinion and no malice intended moving forward.
Northern
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05-22-2020, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: calgary
Posts: 1,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Probably lose too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Serious question. Are you new to Canada?
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Yup and good question. Missed a couple posts in between. Whoops.
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05-22-2020, 05:37 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Blackfalds
Posts: 6,945
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If you walked up the banks of the river from outside the reserve, you shouldn’t need permission.
They don’t own the rivers. Don’t let them make you think that they do.
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Trudeau and Biden sit to pee
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05-22-2020, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple
If you walked up the banks of the river from outside the reserve, you shouldn’t need permission.
They don’t own the rivers. Don’t let them make you think that they do.
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Believe it or not, there are private properties along the north Saskatchewan river that are owned right up to the water. No mater where the water is. Some sort of clause where it’s been grandfathered in.
I’ve never confirmed this but was told by more than one person. Wish I knew 100% because there’s a place I’d like to fish along the river where the owner claims just this.
Last edited by Talking moose; 05-22-2020 at 05:53 PM.
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05-22-2020, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Well then you already know indigenous people have privileges that the other people of Canada do not. Just seems odd that you sound surprised by this.
Hence the question.
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This^.
First Nations are treated differently for that very reason. As someone who teaches social studies, I'm not going to get into the 73 part seminar on why. The answers are readily available. I say this with all due respect; not flaming or meant to provoke. At all.
I am simply saying there is a long, long, tortured history here...and that's why. Whether you agree with it of course, is another matter. Probably best discussed and debated offline, in my opinion.
If you are really and truly interested in these answers, contact a law firm specializing in first nations rights. Or, to reiterate, google the answers and see what you come up with.
[Edit: my apologies. You did say you did try to search for the answers. My bad; I should have read more closely!]
Last edited by smitty9; 05-22-2020 at 06:02 PM.
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05-22-2020, 06:14 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Believe it or not, there are private properties along the north Saskatchewan river that are owned right up to the water. No mater where the water is. Some sort of clause where it’s been grandfathered in.
I’ve never confirmed this but was told by more than one person. Wish I knew 100% because there’s a place I’d like to fish along the river where the owner claims just this.
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Was told a similar thing with some properties owning even the creek bed of jumping pound creek. Same thing old grandfathered clause with old properties
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05-22-2020, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pincher Creek
Posts: 921
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My understanding is that anyone can travel and in this case fish any navigable water within the country. It is also my understanding that navigable water access includes water and land up to the high water mark. If there is anyone on the forum who can provide legal interpretation on this matter I would like to hear it.
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Ranger
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05-22-2020, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,615
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Just call the band office and politely ask permission to fish for Krust's sake...tell them what yer driving etc. Maybe say thanks if they grant you permission... Or go marchin in there like it's your right and come back to four flat tires and a hole in uour gas tank. then let us all know how the fishing was. I grew up around natives, just show a little respect and courtesy, don't play dumb...Maybe someday things will change. Until then I would suggest a civil approach. Speaking from experience.
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05-22-2020, 11:12 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 529
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Call the band office and ask. Maybe they say yes. Maybe there’s a small fee to be paid.
If they say no, plenty of other of places to go. You might not think it’s right that they tell you no, but disregarding what they say could lead to vehicle damage or hostility that just isn’t worth it. You could also involve authorities which would just escalate the hostility.
On a side note, a dream catcher hanging from the rear view window isn’t the worst idea.
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05-23-2020, 08:09 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anorthernhunter
Like I said, I rarely speak up about these emotionally charged and individually biased topics (meaning one side believes they are correct and won't budge and the other side the same - so nothing moves forward). I kick myself for jumping in on this one as I can see how mods shut down these threads as they deteriorate.
I will be more judicious with my postings moving forward.
"Privileges that other people in Canada do not" whether by Natives or by any other groups within Canada, at times, can be the catalyst to friction.
I was simply pointing out that we are one country ... made up of a mosaic of groups, ethnicities, populations etc ... and for one of those groups to insist on preventing access to another citizen of Canada (key point) for the simple action of fishing in a stream or lake or ocean seems counter to the idea of one country for all.
Anyway. I will leave it at that ... as I said - my opinion and no malice intended moving forward.
Northern
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No one seems to be disagreeing with you at all. I agree with your viewpoint 100%
This topic has been going on here a long time is all. Back to the op, why you would want to test when there are so many fishing options...good luck to you. Especially during Covid times when most first nations are not allowing anyone on or near. You would be pushing your luck in these times imho.
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05-23-2020, 10:02 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger CS
My understanding is that anyone can travel and in this case fish any navigable water within the country. It is also my understanding that navigable water access includes water and land up to the high water mark. If there is anyone on the forum who can provide legal interpretation on this matter I would like to hear it.
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I, too, would like to hear an informed legal interpretation of this. I have first hand knowledge of people who claim land ownership to the water's edge, as backed up by survey maps of their property. Adjacent properties show the high water mark as their limit. That is, the survey lines are different for the two cases.
Also, it is my understanding that an Indigenous band had the right to bar any non-members from their reserve. I'd appreciate an explanation of rights to navigable water as it applies to reserves.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can write authoritatively on this.
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05-23-2020, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: near Calgary
Posts: 6,649
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dont know why you would want to as native total land mass reserves are .2 percent of Canada land
"Reserve lands are not strictly “owned” by bands but are held in trust for bands by the Crown. The Indian Act grants the Minister of Indian Affairs authority over much of the activity on reserves."
Do First Nations own their land?
"First Nations can then develop their own laws about land use, the environment and natural resources and take advantage of cultural and economic development opportunities with their new land management authorities."
I dont think anyone owns navigatable waterways but you sure wouldnt want to walk on shore without permission from band office. Myself I dont see wining a debate on where the high water mark is so it is not worth it to me.
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a hunting we will go!!!!!!
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05-23-2020, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 240
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there is some very old deeded land that goes to the middle of the creek and others own the creek bottom as they have land on both sides. I know 2 that still own mineral rights.
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05-23-2020, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple
If you walked up the banks of the river from outside the reserve, you shouldn’t need permission.
They don’t own the rivers. Don’t let them make you think that they do.
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You Cannot walk up the bank within an Indian Reserve without permission. You can't float the water flowing through an Indian Reserve without permission.
True, they don't "Own" the river on Indian Reserves, the Federal government does, and Federal law restricts access and use of ALL land and waters within Indian Reserves.
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This thread is going off on many tangents that don't apply to the OP's question, which is also confused....
Federal Indian reserve land (and waters) laws have nothing to do with what may apply in other jurisdictions such as Alberta.
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Fatty,
The land you mention is a Federal Indian Reserve, (not to be confused with claimed "indigenous territory".
You must have permission to be on Indian Reserve land AND waters, including navigable streams.
Without permission, you are trespassing.
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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05-23-2020, 01:30 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Y
The land you mention is a Federal Indian Reserve, (not to be confused with claimed "indigenous territory".
You must have permission to be on Indian Reserve land AND waters, including navigable streams.
Without permission, you are trespassing.
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Thanks, Walking Buffalo. You sound sufficiently informed for me.
This is what I thought, but I got confused when I tried to use google to check it out.
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