Is hunting success at long range a fluke?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by hal53

Probably very true... my concerns were more about the two young fellas in Cabelas I saw a couple years ago that were talking about a show they watched and they were looking at buying a " long range" rifle

You hear it from the guys that work there too
I dont like hanging around the gun counter at cabelas
Makes my head hurt

[elkhunter11]

Whether skill or luck is the primary factor, depends on who is doing the shooting. There are people that spend the time and money to learn to shoot at longer ranges, and that will turn down a shot if the shooting conditions are not right. Then there are the people that buy the gear advertised on the shows, but that don't spend the time behind the trigger to actually learn how to read wind, and how to shoot. Then there are the people that don't even buy appropriate gear, and that don't practise, but will never turn down a shot, because if they have lead in the air, they have a chance. From my own experiences in the field, and a various shooting ranges, the vast majority of people fit into the last two categories. And of course if the animal moves while the bullet is in the air, as can happen at longer ranges, even the most skilled shooter can make a poor shot.

[Dubious]

Most guys i know that want to get into long range shooting don’t want to spend any money and expect to be on target first shot every time I’ve said this before in other posts. You can’t even get these guys to consider a range membership reloading or just shooting more it’s to much money for them. These will be the guys people complain about on this forum that shoot at game at 500m with no range finder that just guess and waste ammo. I call these people the average hunters because that’s what they are.

I also know a few other hunters that are very skilled and do shoot game at 600+ these hunters are not just tools that shoot away and do care about the game. They spend incredible amounts of money hunting sheep in Asia in places like Pakistan or tajizikastan require long shots that’s just there reality. This style of shooting in Alberta may be controversial to some of you but we shouldn’t be running about calling it straight up luck and wizardry there is skill in it, it is a useful and required tool in some applications maybe just not yours not everyone hunts whitetail in timber or still sits. People wound game, a lot, if its arrows or just poor rifle shots it’s a fact of the sport no one wants to have it happen but it does, If you hunt long enough with enough people it’s going to happen to you to.

[Speckle55]

For all you young hunters/target

in 1850's Sharp came out with their long-distance rifle(buffalos gun)

now with the differn't calibers n cartridges n scopes

long range hunting is so much easier

BDC system's with range finders add to the tools of trade

if your serious about getting to know your rifle equipment

then try these long range schools , we didn't have these years ago curve longer

my 7mm mag is rate for 900m to 1100m

these old guys have blinders on if you get the drift

Edson has a 1mile range to use your rifle

this video is what bison hunters would see if they got Hyper-static shock
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...%26FORM%3DVDRE

ethic's are a personal choice … I hate driving when it rains because of worms

if you get to know your rifle it will be your friend(975yd moose pic)

here is Len Backus three shot sequence

as always this is

Food for thought

David

[cody j]

It made me laugh

[W921]

If your hunting public land or private land that is about the same as public. Do you see stuff out in the open much?
Even in horse only remote as old heck zones. Places where you need strings of horses to get your gear in there you can ride a crazy amount of miles on trails and never see elk in the open.
There are tons of guys hunting with horses. There isn't any wilderness left where you can get away from other hunters unless its private and they keep everybody out or public but with crazy restrictions so that nobody except for the people in with them can access it.

[Stinky Coyote]

Nice shooting Chuck

Ethics are personal, some don't mind going afield with a quick 2" high confirmation at 100 and know they are fairly solid to 300. Others like to have their potential match that of the gear they are shooting. And it takes a fair bit of work before season to develop a rig to it's full potential. That's like pre-season scouting. It's hunting still imo, there is a lot of 'hunting' or work one can do before the season starts and i lump proficiency with your tools into that category.

Does that make the guy who half azzes his deer at 250 a more ethical hunter than the one who precisely dumps his 500 yard deer? No, both guys put in the required amount of work and stayed within their own proficiency. Neither to be judged by the other.

It's good to do those cold bore 'what ifs' in the field like Chuck just demonstrated. It's not for anyone's benefit other than one more step in keeping proficiency with your gear up to where you want to be.

When you look at it, most rigs are lethal to likely 3x further than the majority set them up for. There's nothing wrong with putting in the work to up that proficiency to match the cartridge/rifles potential.

If nothing else i do it for the hung up coyotes when calling. They will sit down from 450-650 and laugh at you. I take great offense to that and like to laugh back.

On the big game spectrum i like the chip shots. On the coyotes the lead flies no matter what.

There's two more scenarios in the back pocket for having that proficiency however;

1. If the ram of my dreams was bedded across the basin in perfect conditions and this was going to be my best chance then...

2. Maybe dealing with a poor first hit and one got out there a ways but offered a shot, be nice to range/dial and try to end the chapter.

[W921]

Most hunters target practice from a bench on a nice day. Not the same as snow storms, windy ,rainy,-20 or windy conditions.
Ask outfitters about clients coming to camp. All dressed up in new gear from Cabellas,with the latest and greatest shooting gear. Quoting ballistic charts and talking about shooting long range at the NRA Whittington range or camp perry. Then the miss a broad side moose at 25 yards because of the pressure they put on themselves because its a once in a lifetime shot on a once in a lifetime hunt.
I'm not directing this at anybody here. I'm just making small talk and trying not to think of troubles in my life (smile)

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by W921

Most hunters target practice from a bench on a nice day. Not the same as snow storms, windy ,rainy,-20 or windy conditions.
Ask outfitters about clients coming to camp. All dressed up in new gear from Cabellas,with the latest and greatest shooting gear. Quoting ballistic charts and talking about shooting long range at the NRA Whittington range or camp perry. Then the miss a broad side moose at 25 yards because of the pressure they put on themselves because its a once in a lifetime shot on a once in a lifetime hunt.
I'm not directing this at anybody here. I'm just making small talk and trying not to think of troubles in my life (smile)

Here I am at minus 25.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by cody j

It made me laugh

That's true. Every one who wants to hunt with a rifle should have to kill some big game with a bow first.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

That's true. Every one who wants to hunt with a rifle should have to kill some big game with a bow first.

I have. I’ve also shot big game with a rifle inside of 20’ after stalking them. Like I said earlier. It’s nice to be able to make my own grown up decisions.

[W921]

Looks great Chuck! You have the right idea.

[Stinky Coyote]

Probably have more big game down with a bow than a rifle myself. The long range ethics is argued in that platform also, no different than here with the rifles. It's up to the nut behind the trigger (or string) to make his own decisions, preferably grown up decisions lol.

Weirdest year, a ram at 35 yards with rifle (a rifle i built to go 800+), then a whitetail buck at 65 yards, a muley buck at 53 yards, and a bull moose at 40 yards...all with a bow. Should have drug my bow up the mountain after that ram i guess.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by chuck

I have. I’ve also shot big game with a rifle inside of 20’ after stalking them. Like I said earlier. It’s nice to be able to make my own grown up decisions.

I didn’t realize you were a bow hunter. Now I’m impressed!

[OldRussian]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

That's true. Every one who wants to hunt with a rifle should have to kill some big game with a bow first.

Why force them to use a less effective tool? I've killed plenty of stuff in bow range with my rifle. Why leave it up to long track jobs and potential poor penetration with a bow when a rifle has a high chance of dropping the animal where it stands?

I get it that some people get short track jobs with a double lung arrow. But, I think it is impossible to argue that a rifle is not a more effective killing tool at the same range.

As I type this, I am preparing for bear camp over the weekend. I am bringing my bow yet I likely won't do anything more than target shoot with it during camp time. Instead I will likely use a gun when it is time to sit the baits. This is because a gun is far more effective of a killing tool, even at the 28 yard ranges shots will be made.

The only reason I have a bow is to access general moose tags. Given the option to legally use both for a hunt I will use a gun; simply due to its lower chance of wounding and higher chance of recovering the animal.

I am not poo pooing bow hunters with this post. I am simply trying to point out why I don't think people should have to hunt with a bow for the sake of simply killing with a bow.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by OldRussian

Why force them to use a less effective tool? I've killed plenty of stuff in bow range with my rifle. Why leave it up to long track jobs and potential poor penetration with a bow when a rifle has a high chance of dropping the animal where it stands?

I get it that some people get short track jobs with a double lung arrow. But, I think it is impossible to argue that a rifle is not a more effective killing tool at the same range.

As I type this, I am preparing for bear camp over the weekend. I am bringing my bow yet I likely won't do anything more than target shoot with it during camp time. Instead I will likely use a gun when it is time to sit the baits. This is because a gun is far more effective of a killing tool, even at the 28 yard ranges shots will be made.

The only reason I have a bow is to access general moose tags. Given the option to legally use both for a hunt I will use a gun; simply due to its lower chance of wounding and higher chance of recovering the animal.

I am not poo pooing bow hunters with this post. I am simply trying to point out why I don't think people should have to hunt with a bow for the sake of simply killing with a bow.

All true. Good points.

[swifthunter]

I know lots of guys that shoot long range and can make shots that are hard to believe, but they spend a ton of time reloading and practicing. Guys I know practice at over 2000 yards consistently but wouldn't try that on a live animal and keep it under half of that. Even a 500 yard shot with a muzzle loader isn't out of the question if you have the equipment and conditions to do it. Not something Im gonna do because Im not gonna get set up or practice it. Even if I had their gun I wouldn't try those shots as I wouldn't have the confidence or the practice to know that I can make the shot every time. Id say that theres a lot more fluke shots made by guys with ordinary rifles and bows who grab their weapons the day before season and don't practice at all

[Bergerboy]

If you go to the range often enough you will clearly see why people need to shoot more. Its scary right before hunting season to see the shooting results from some people. I think that with Chuck shooting at ranges from 450m to 900m he will have confidence in the trajectory of that rifle. If a hunting shot comes up at 500m it would be a gimme for him. I have no idea why more people do not shoot more in the off season. I am jealous of Chuck for the access to that nice chunk of land to shoot on. Looks very fun!

[raised by wolves]

Too much hype over long distance shooting. Although I have loads of confidence in my ability and gear to shoot out to 1500 metres, coming from years of training and thousands of rounds down range, my longest field shot was around 600 metres, the next longest being around 460 metres. The rest of my 300+ big game animals were taken under 200 metres.

[32-40win]

If a person has the range time on longer shots, they'll learn a lot, and most won't take those longer shots if they can avoid them, in my estimation. There are situations where it could pay off, but, that is still up to the individual and how bad they want what they are looking at, and how well they can judge conditions and how well they know their limitations in those conditions. Even at that, the animal concerned, adds another variable, and that has to be evaluated as well. All you can do is hope that the shooter can judge the shot, and themselves, and humble enough to admit that a shot is no good before committing to it. Takes time and practice to learn that though.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by raised by wolves

Too much hype over long distance shooting. Although I have loads of confidence in my ability and gear to shoot out to 1500 metres, coming from years of training and thousands of rounds down range, my longest field shot was around 600 metres, the next longest being around 460 metres. The rest of my 300+ big game animals were taken under 200 metres.

Good post

[Bushrat]

Whether it is 10 yds or 1000 yds, we should only take shots we know that if all goes right will kill the animal. Too many people are letting bullets fly only hoping they will hit it, with no clue where that bullet is really going to hit. The longer the range the worse the odds are that something will go wrong...

[Lefty-Canuck]

The furthest hunting shot I have made the past 6 years is 87 yards, was a follow up to a well placed 45 yard shot. Every year I have filled the freezer with a tasty elk and/or mule deer/white tail and/or antelope.
Long range is over rated

LC

[Huk]

I'm not even close to being a long range shooter, but I do practice out to 500 yards, with reloaded ammunition.

One thing that has become apparent during this practice is the effect of wind on a bullet at that range, and how unpredictable it is to the average shooter (me). Given that I hunt mostly in notoriously windy SW of the province, it's really got me cold on the idea shooting an animal at that distance.

I did shoot a whitetail doe this past season at 430 yards, but I had a perfect rest and there was absolutely no wind. This is a rare scenario for the style of hunting I do (mountains) where a seated shot off the pack is common, and having the opportunity to shoot from prone is a luxury. Given this particular situation I was 100% confident I was going to make the shot due to the practice I'd done.

I honestly cringe when I watch youtube hunting shows and guys are taking shots at 600 plus yards (some of which result in misses, or wounded deer). I get it comes down to personal judgement and skill level but there are just so many variables the longer you go, and as others have mentioned the concept of fair chase comes into it as well. I also worry about bullet expansion at long range.

Is success at long range a fluke? Probably not. Is it ethical though?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Just try to make a one shot clean kill... this isn’t really my idea of hunting personally, this was shooting... 1258 yards, taking “sighters” while the moose is feeding.

“Send it...” really annoys me.

https://youtu.be/nfFZ1m_5hro

LC

[W921]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Being able to hit a target at longer distances with a first round kill shot is not the issue - one cannot bank on an animal not moving during the longer timd of flight , that is the issue .
I am quite capable of making kill shots at long range and have made some very long first round kills on deer in the past.
Hiwever I have not attempted it in years after an almost disastrous shot on a deer that was quite a bit shorter distance than some of my kills .
The shot was perfect ,slightly over 700 yards using a high B.C. Bullet coming out of the muzzle over 3,000 FPS , in An area I
shoot at regularly
The deer took ONE step forward in that time and turned a kill shot into a gut shot .Luckily I was able to follow the shot up before the deer crested the slope and was gong forever .
I have said this before and it bears repeating .
Ethics and expertise aside , the individual is responsible for their shot after the trigger breaks It is theirs to own and to live with and decide if it is worth it, nobody else's .

What anybody else does is up to them
Cat

I can't word it anymore diplomatic than cat did so x2

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Just try to make a one shot clean kill... this isn’t really my idea of hunting personally, this was shooting... 1258 yards, taking “sighters” while the moose is feeding.

“Send it...” really annoys me.

https://youtu.be/nfFZ1m_5hro

LC

The adult in this scenario is a ***** for teaching theae kids thats hunting.

Sighters, his stupid coin phrase, the truck door slam....

Its a bs scenario for sure.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Just try to make a one shot clean kill... this isn’t really my idea of hunting personally, this was shooting... 1258 yards, taking “sighters” while the moose is feeding.

“Send it...” really annoys me.

https://youtu.be/nfFZ1m_5hro

LC

That was brutal, if you need to and are far enough away that you can take a confirmation shot to see where you’re hitting after you miss you should not be thinking of taking that shot.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I agree with you guys... that was an embarrassing display of “long range” sh.... you fill in the blank.

Absolutely nothing to be proud of there IMHO.

LC

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I agree with you guys... that was an embarrassing display of “long range” sh.... you fill in the blank.

Absolutely nothing to be proud of there IMHO.

LC

What a gong show of a video. "Send it"....holy hell.