One battle we lose everytime

gibb · #1 03-19-2009, 10:57 AM

http://www.salina.com/news/story/car...trapping-31209

albertadave · #2 03-19-2009, 11:30 AM

I think most people would agree that's a very sad and unfortunate incident, but I have to wonder why the dog owner, who is a hunter himself and hunting at the time, would take photos and go public with this. He's only furthering the "anti anything to do with animals, PETA type" cause.

Okotokian · #3 03-19-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delburnedave

I think most people would agree that's a very sad and unfortunate incident, but I have to wonder why the dog owner, who is a hunter himself and hunting at the time, would take photos and go public with this. He's only furthering the "anti anything to do with animals, PETA type" cause.

Is there any way a hunter could ever publicly voice a concern about any sort of hunting, trapping, or gun issue without being accused of helping "the enemy"? I'm NOT accusing you of saying this Delburn, but sometimes it's like saying that if you are against police brutality or believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty by a court then you are helping and supporting criminals. It's an easy but not always logical argument to throw out. Taken to an admitted extreme, if some hunters started simply shooting dogs they see out in the field, should bird hunters who lose the dogs simply stay silent in solidarity?

packhuntr · #4 03-19-2009, 02:07 PM

I have to wonder,,, did the trapper get his 330 back?? How brain dead do you have to be to look at a conibear and not know how the basics of it work. As far as him raising the issue/stink he has about his dog getting caught, i have no comment, least not on here. I will say though, I watched my blue heeler come about 12 inches from running into a power snare for coyotes while shed hunting one time. I happened to be standing RIGHT THERE. The dog came by on a flat run heading down the trail through the brush,,,, I lucked out and as she came by I was able to plant my boot into the side of her ribcage. Yes it hurt the dog, yes she thought she was in sh*t for something, but I had inadvertantly saved her life. Would I have got mad and raised a stink about my dog being killed in a power ram if she had been,,,, NO.

albertadave · #5 03-19-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Is there any way a hunter could ever publicly voice a concern about any sort of hunting, trapping, or gun issue without being accused of helping "the enemy"? I'm NOT accusing you of saying this Delburn, but sometimes it's like saying that if you are against police brutality or believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty by a court then you are helping and supporting criminals. It's an easy but not always logical argument to throw out. Taken to an admitted extreme, if some hunters started simply shooting dogs they see out in the field, should bird hunters who lose the dogs simply stay silent in solidarity?

When hunting, trapping or gun laws are broken, hunters usually do voice their concerns publicly (just ask lethal connection

). That's not the case here, according to the article the trap was set legally. I understand what you're getting at, but your analogy doesn't really work. Police brutallity is illegal, in most civilized countries anyway, trapping on public land in this guy's state isn't. I guess it comes down to the old ethics/morals vs. legallity arguement and how, if the laws are being followed, we outdoorsmen should try to stick together. Usually, and I know I'm generalizing, hunters as a group aren't anti-trapping so it surprised me to see this guy using pictures of his dead dog, a tactic normally used by groups like PETA ect., to tug at the public's heart strings.

Okotokian · #6 03-19-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delburnedave

, if the laws are being followed, we outdoorsmen should try to stick together. .

I have to disagree A BIT. A hunter may want a law to be changed (as in this case), and has a valid right to make his case. I do agree publication of that photo perhaps wasn't the wisest choice, but it would be appropriate for him to show it to the F&W and political authorities he is lobbying to change the law when meeting them.

albertadave · #7 03-19-2009, 03:04 PM

fair enough

northerntrapper · #8 03-21-2009, 02:00 PM

It's sad that a dog got caught in the conibear. As a trapper I would feel bad it happened, but at the same time, lethal, quick kill traps are the result of public lobbying, and consequently are now mandated by law. The same with powersnares. Efficient and quick. Unless you have the proper tools with you, it is over pretty quick. There is no catch and release anymore. My trapline borders on some subdivisions. I stay well clear of them in an effort to avoid this sort of thing.

uglyelk · #9 03-25-2009, 11:15 PM

Yeah we can't win in the press. The guy was a 2 hour walk from his vehicle, it's not like the trap was on the edge of a residental area. Where the hell are you suposed to trap?

If the dog was killed by a predator it would be just as dead. Possibly you take your chances when you leave suburbia.

So the guy watched his dog die for six minutes...I suspect the rabbit hunter was carrying a firearm. Folks like this **** me off! Pull the trigger stupid!

I supose if his dog had run off he'd expect the army to mount a search too.

Back home on our line people use to hunt deer with dogs. Perfectly legal. So the first two weeks of November not only did we have lots of people wander thru the bush we also got lots of dogs.

Our solution was we didn't set any traps until deer season closed. Kind of sucked missing two weeks, but we didn't catch any dogs and we didn't have any dogs tearing up what was in out traps.

My grandfather always told me fur gets thicker when it gets colder we aren't missing much. Think he had a point. However we only had to deal with it for a brief period. We didn't have to deal with day hunters looking for birds rabbits etc. we were just to remote for that kind of hunting pressure. Only dogs we say after hunting season were our own and the ocassional lost ones we aquired.

Dogs in the bush is an diffcult question. In some parts of the country dogs are shot on sight during deer season , in other areas they use them to flush deer, bear, cougar, birds, rabbits.

I've kind of accepted I might run into a dog in the bush. Think dog owners need to accept some risk. I accept risk every time I leave the house. Maybe this rabbit hunter should have had a closer eye on the wee hound. If he wanted it alive he should have looked after it.

I don't remember ever catching one of our dogs in a trap...did have to put one down now and then after a run in with a porcupine.

I guess in this nanny state not only do we owe these people a living we also must keep their pets safe.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm fed up with folks taking a run at my way of life. Did you read the comments that followed the article?

Sorry to ramble!

sourdough doug · #10 03-25-2009, 11:58 PM

We do have signs available to us, designating an Active Trapping Area. These could be posted in such places where the public might be walking their dogs. Now, way out back is a different situation, but even there just an occasional sign placed on a boundary marker of a trail would serve to notify any dog handler not to have them running loose. I would not be posting any more than a minimum number as they can be like the proverbial " waving a red flag at a bull".. Some people then go looking for traps... Some you win, some you loose....

Elaphus · #11 03-27-2009, 01:43 PM

My wife and I use to have an old red heeler dog that just couldn't say no to a piece of beaver meat. We had a couple of places where we hung a beaver carcass and then set up a mine field of leghold traps for coyotes. Every once and a while old Doug would disappear and at the end of the day we would go out to check the coyote sets and find him lying there waiting for us with a paw or two caught in the traps and a sheepish look on his face.

Snares became the norm and it was usually a rule that you would use regular snares in ranching or farming areas and keep the power snares for out where dogs were not suppose to be. Some jurisdictions even had the regulations set up that way. You guys know the drill................theory being a dog would be leash trained and if caught in a snare, would give up and sit and wait to be rescued while the coyote or wolf would finish the job on their own.

Now a few wildlife managers in some areas are making the use of power snares mandatory in open zones which are of course tend to be ranching and farming areas. Well that doesn't leave you or the dog any leeway and you are pretty much assured Fido is going over the 'Rainbow Bridge'.

Where I live in Manitoba (ranching country), if your dog heads off and goes where he is not suppose to be, you can be pretty sure he is going to catch a bullet. It was the same in the areas I lived in BC and northern Alberta.

There are times when accidents happen, but in most cases the dog owners are at fault for what happens to Ol' Yeller. It doesn't really matter how it played out and who really was at fault, the death of someones 'best friend' is always bad press and it will always be thus....................... unless of course it was a pit bull and then Joe Urbanite is OK with it.