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06-23-2020, 01:27 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,643
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Debunking systemic racism and other
Inconvenient truths. Larry Elder discussing some of the myths around systemic racism , black lives matter, afimative action among other things . Very interesting video. Well worth watching.
https://youtu.be/vbhFubiFiqg
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06-23-2020, 02:54 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 518
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I’ll be the first (and likely only) to acknowledge that systemic racism has existed and I and my descendants will have benefitted. I do not feel guilty, but I can clearly see where it has existed in the past and certain issues in the present are because of that.
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06-23-2020, 03:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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I find most of the people who say there is no "systematic racism" don't understand the concept. It doesn't mean people who run the system whisper in the back while a person of color comes in and try and purposefully find ways to discriminate against that person, nor does it mean those who make policies do the same either.
Systematic racism could be something as simple, and counter intuitive, as offering funding to one racial or religious group creating interdependence. Think about our welfare system, it is a perfect example of that, by handing out welfare money to the lazy and unwilling to work, you are, in fact not helping them learn to be self sufficient. (I know that's not racism but the analogy works here).
I agree with the premise that affirmative action has done just about as much harm as it has good, because we, artificially, through a quota, do not get the best suited and most qualified person every time if we are forced to maintain artificial ratios. I was never a fan of that. Really, that is a tool someone came up with, so Billy the Bigot, was forced to hire people of color because, Billy, being a bigot, wouldn't give candidates of color an equal opportunity. It did nothing to address the root cause of the issue.
On the other hand, systematic racism exists everywhere. It's real. conventional bigotry and home grown racism does too, I've seen it, and chances are you have too. We should never tolerate it and stand idly by as it happens.
We just need to weight the pandering and coddling against equality and equal opportunity.
"Love or Hate everyone equally"
I have, admittedly, used prejudices in my hiring, not consciously, but one day it clicked to me. I had some entry level labor jobs, crappy hard work, and I found myself choosing immigrants and those I felt would appreciate the job and work hard at it, show up everyday, and cause little or no issues - I rejected candidates because they were the proverbial "white kids" who would often need days off, show up late, be lazy and irresponsible and felt their next step in life was being the CEO of a big corporation.
I guess I realized that when I was having a conversation with the manager of the department who worked for me and I suggested we hire candidate A (an immigrant who had poor interviewing skills and no related experience) over candidate B ( a college kid who was very good at the interview) and he asked me why? …. The manager of the department, BTW, was a Syrian immigrant and told me I was racist against white people (we had a good laugh) but, in some ways, he was right. I was being prejudiced without consciously knowing it.
I was a contributing cause to this. Sometimes it comes in forms and in ways you don't even realize.
Last edited by EZM; 06-23-2020 at 03:11 PM.
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06-23-2020, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 518
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EZM,
I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts, they’re factual, articulate, often reflective and well written.
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06-23-2020, 03:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rvsask
EZM,
I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts, they’re factual, articulate, often reflective and well written.
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Thanks - appreciate it. I have to go back and edit them a half dozen time usually, but it's hard for me slow down enough to try and say everything I want to say. lol. Doing that they probably come out a little better.
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06-23-2020, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rvsask
EZM,
I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts, they’re factual, articulate, often reflective and well written.
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Agreed. Bad at poker but posts well.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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06-23-2020, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Agreed. Bad at poker but posts well.
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Depends what I'm poking .......
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06-23-2020, 06:39 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,573
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yeah right...
This the response I got from one of my latest job application, I'm so fortunate that my white privilege will keep me unemployed.
"Thank you for submitting your application for position Purchasing and Stores Manager . Your application has been entered in our database for further review.
International Paper participates in the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) program. WOTC is a Federal tax credit available to employers for hiring individuals from certain target groups who have consistently faced significant barriers to employment. WOTC joins other workforce programs that incentivize workplace diversity and facilitate access to good jobs for American workers."
We are providing you a link to the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) Survey administered by Ernst & Young (EY). We would appreciate you taking a few minutes to complete the WOTC survey.
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06-23-2020, 08:32 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
Depends what I'm poking .......
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Family members don’t count...just sayin...
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06-23-2020, 03:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
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It's definitely real (systemic racism).
Most here benefit from white privilege but don't realize it because it is what they grew up with. The fact that I, as a white male have never had to worry about not being accepted for a job because of my skin color...or know that when stopped by police it will go smoothly (as long as I don't act like a jerk)...it's been that way my entire life so it just wasn't something I thought about in the past.
But I've worked for large companies that had no employees that weren't white, even though I saw people of color applying for jobs.
I've seen police question white people on the street...it looks like a casual conversation...but when questioning an indigenous person it looks a lot less friendly.
It's human nature...when you've never been treated poorly you tend to think no one else is either.
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06-23-2020, 03:50 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindoutside
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If everything else were equal, whites would make up about +70% of the inmate population.
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06-23-2020, 03:53 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 518
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Math explains that one.
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06-23-2020, 04:11 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindoutside
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You do realize that well over 50% of Canadians are white, right?
Swing and a miss!
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06-23-2020, 04:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindoutside
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That graph shows the total prison population.
It doesn't factor that in the last census 75% of Canadians identify as white.
So that means that 25% of the population accounts for nearly 44% of the prison population.
Or another way 75% of the population accounts for only 56% of the prison population.
Or that if you are not white you have twice as much chance of being in prison than if you are white.
I'm not an apologist...I think the reason for the real numbers is that certain segments of society commit the majority of crimes...but your supplied graph doesn't back up your argument.
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06-23-2020, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
That graph shows the total prison population.
It doesn't factor that in the last census 75% of Canadians identify as white.
So that means that 25% of the population accounts for nearly 44% of the prison population.
Or another way 75% of the population accounts for only 56% of the prison population.
Or that if you are not white you have twice as much chance of being in prison than if you are white.
I'm not an apologist...I think the reason for the real numbers is that certain segments of society commit the majority of crimes...but your supplied graph doesn't back up your argument.
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Got any source? Everyone has anecdotal's to back it up and that's gospel but the one set of facts that comes across is just obviously wrong and misunderstood. Typical left wing garbage arguments. Representation of these numbers, whether you are right or wrong, doesn't predict the future. You do not have any greater or lesser chance of going to jail based on your skin colour. Its based on your actions as an individual.
Any statistic is based on the past, if you based your finances on past statistics you would also loose alot of money.
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06-23-2020, 05:55 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
That graph shows the total prison population.
It doesn't factor that in the last census 75% of Canadians identify as white.
So that means that 25% of the population accounts for nearly 44% of the prison population.
Or another way 75% of the population accounts for only 56% of the prison population.
Or that if you are not white you have twice as much chance of being in prison than if you are white.
I'm not an apologist...I think the reason for the real numbers is that certain segments of society commit the majority of crimes...but your supplied graph doesn't back up your argument.
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Crime usually tracks socio economic levels.
Best way to lift any group out of crime is through education and positive life experiences.
While we may not help someone pay for education we can be role models, helping encourage a youth to do well in school while teaching them how to fish.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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06-23-2020, 04:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindoutside
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I think you might need to think about proportionate representation to answer your question.
It's very likely data and facts will serve to contradict the point I think you were trying to make.
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07-04-2020, 07:51 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
It's definitely real (systemic racism).
Most here benefit from white privilege but don't realize it because it is what they grew up with. The fact that I, as a white male have never had to worry about not being accepted for a job because of my skin color...or know that when stopped by police it will go smoothly (as long as I don't act like a jerk)...it's been that way my entire life so it just wasn't something I thought about in the past.
But I've worked for large companies that had no employees that weren't white, even though I saw people of color applying for jobs.
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I’ve had quite the opposite experience. I was flat out told that I wouldn’t be hired, right in the interview, even though I should’ve been on the short list, because of a company directive to bring in more visible minorities in to the company. Straight out of the person doing the interview.
Systemic racism does exist, and its there against everyone, no matter the skin color, there is something “racist”. Our own federal government has grants that I can’t apply for because I’m white. I’ve seen many job postings that say we only accept “whatever colored” people or whatever religion base of people. That’s discrimination, plain and simple. Everybody deals with,it’s a matter of how you respond.
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06-23-2020, 03:15 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy
Inconvenient truths. Larry Elder discussing some of the myths around systemic racism , black lives matter, afimative action among other things . Very interesting video. Well worth watching.
https://youtu.be/vbhFubiFiqg
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This video may be worth watching. I may find out later. Right now I got to 1:30 and they had said nothing. There were a number of video clips that I suppose were included to generate my interest but I wouldn't have been watching if I weren't interested.
This may not be as bad as the "how to call ducks" videos that take the first five minutes to introduce the host and the duck caller, and tell you what call to buy, and why you want a duck call, and what the weather is like in Kentucky.
Nonetheless, I would prefer to read a transcript so I can skip over the bumpf. Just impatient I guess.
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06-23-2020, 03:29 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk270
This video may be worth watching. I may find out later. Right now I got to 1:30 and they had said nothing. There were a number of video clips that I suppose were included to generate my interest but I wouldn't have been watching if I weren't interested.
This may not be as bad as the "how to call ducks" videos that take the first five minutes to introduce the host and the duck caller, and tell you what call to buy, and why you want a duck call, and what the weather is like in Kentucky.
Nonetheless, I would prefer to read a transcript so I can skip over the bumpf. Just impatient I guess.
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Sooo you couldn't get past the part of the video where they introduce the subject matter and the guest being interviewed but you think you would have the patience to read the transcript? lol okay.
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06-23-2020, 03:35 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy
Sooo you couldn't get past the part of the video where they introduce the subject matter and the guest being interviewed but you think you would have the patience to read the transcript? lol okay.
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Yes. I have a lot of patience when reading something with some content but very little for empty chatter. How much can you read in 1.5 minutes? I'm sure it's a considerable amount more than what you get from listening for the same time.
I guess this triggered a "pet peeve" of mine, made worse by the fact that I am very interested in the topic and what Larry Elder has to say. I have the same problem with Ben Shapiro videos but not, of course, with his writing.
Last edited by sk270; 06-23-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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