Gasoline price jump???

[Sloughsharkjigger]

Relax folks... the $25 gas “hush” card is in the mail. Spend it wisely... grab a few loafs of bread perhaps.

[pistolero1860]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I don't know anyone who wants higher prices for anything. I advocate for reasonable profit. I state supply and demand economics help achieve that.

I do not support unfairly bashing any industry whether fast food, oil and gas, farming, construction, manufacturing, etc.

There are lots of people spouting trash with absolution get no grounding in fact. Spreading bogus theories. Stating lies or misinformation as fact.

Some people seem to think a litre of oil gets pumped from the ground and then sent to a gasoline pump to buy.

Some People have no clue apparently as to the costs to find and produce a bbl of oil. No clue as to how it gets transported from a well to a refinery. No clue how it gets refined. No clue as to how that refined product gets shipped to a station to retail. No clue how much it costs to run a gas station.

If it wasn't for store sales gasoline would cost way more because the competition is so high it is hard to live on gasoline profit margins.

YOU can't find one oil company making unfair return of investment to warrant any price bashing.

Challenge once again served only to once again be ignored to join the whining.

You say that you do not advocate for increasing prices for gasoline.
Yet, you then accuse other members who also take exception to increasing gas prices of spouting trash, spreading bogus theories, and stating lies and spreading disinformation. And describing any who disagrees as "whining".

All of this in fact to actually endorse increasing gasoline prices.

You then further justify increasing gas prices by suggesting that the increase in gas prices is due to production, refining, and transportation costs, and how much it costs to run a gas station. This, even though, from what I have heard, the present increase in gas prices has been claimed to be because of a temporary refinery closure.

Your bemoaning of the hardships of gas station owners and your passionate defense of them sounds very much like you own gas stations(s) or otherwise do have a vested financial interest in having gas prices increase.

Do you own gas station(s)?
Do you have a vested financial interest in having gas prices increase?
Are you involved in oil production yourself?

I really can't understand why you would so adamantly support rising gas prices unless you do.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Or better yet. Everything free. No matter what your job or education everyone gets the sane pay. Isn't life grand.

Who said, inferred, or implied that Marxism is what everyone is after? Who in this thread has even hinted at wanting free gas??
In case you weren't already aware of this, sarcasm seriously degrades the validity of your responses and arguments.

To answer your previous request for a link:
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/g...ight-1.3610927

And price fixing is very real and does happen in good 'ol Canada.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...ticle37395447/
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...article534996/

Actually, here's a whole slew of CONVICTIONS for price fixing:
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e...eng/03079.html
(For some reason I can only get the link for Quebec convictions to paste properly). All convictions can be seen on the gc.ca website.

Although a couple of years old, this article gets my point across fairly well and only rings truer today.
https://globalnews.ca/news/2178192/h...-oil-plummets/

And before you call me a communist, my reference to 'private companies' wasn't specifying oil companies, I was implying that crown corporations shouldn't be targeting a profit. Private isn't even in the same world.

Should O&G companies be able to make 5-10% profit? Sure.
Should they be able to subsidize that same profit with a necessity of life which they also control? Not in my opinion. But nor do I believe they should take a loss either. Balance is key. $45 oil and $1.26 gas is the largest spread I can ever recall.

And my statement about Supply and Demand is very valid. Canadian consumption has stayed relatively steady over the last several years at 40-42B litres/yr.
If you can show me a chart which directly shows consumption locked to price I'd love to see it.
I looked. Can't find one.
And anyone that does work in O&G (hate to burst your bubble, but I do) knows that refineries ramp up production prior to all scheduled shut-downs so that supply shortages are avoided and their competition doesn't gain market share. Hence the pressure to be back up on schedule. The "there's a shut down going on right now" excuse only works on sheeple.
Unplanned shut-downs are a different story and very rare.
Anyway, different views are a good thing. Keeps things interesting.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

You say that you do not advocate for increasing prices for gasoline.
Yet, you then accuse other members who also take exception to increasing gas prices of spouting trash, spreading bogus theories, and stating lies and spreading disinformation. And describing any who disagrees as "whining".

All of this in fact to actually endorse increasing gasoline prices.

You then further justify increasing gas prices by suggesting that the increase in gas prices is due to production, refining, and transportation costs, and how much it costs to run a gas station. This, even though, from what I have heard, the present increase in gas prices has been claimed to be because of a temporary refinery closure.

Your bemoaning of the hardships of gas station owners and your passionate defense of them sounds very much like you own gas stations(s) or otherwise do have a vested financial interest in having gas prices increase.

Do you own gas station(s)?
Do you have a vested financial interest in having gas prices increase?
Are you involved in oil production yourself?

I really can't understand why you would so adamantly support rising gas prices unless you do.

Lol



You are espousing wanting something for free. You don't want to pay for what something costs it seems.

I want prices everything as low as possible. However I also know what we are paying is fair. I know we are not being gouged. I know that no company is making unfair profits. I know what it takes to make a litre of gasoline that we all want.

If people just whined about wanting cheap gas then good on them. When garbage gets spewed about companies being criminal or gouging or colluding then I get rankled.

Someone needs to step up from time to time to counter the made up drivel some write on here.

Complain about high taxes.

If you are really keen go buy an electric car.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Who said, inferred, or implied that Marxism is what everyone is after? Who in this thread has even hinted at wanting free gas??
In case you weren't already aware of this, sarcasm seriously degrades the validity of your responses and arguments.

To answer your previous request for a link:
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/g...ight-1.3610927

And price fixing is very real and does happen in good 'ol Canada.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...ticle37395447/
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...article534996/

Actually, here's a whole slew of CONVICTIONS for price fixing:
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e...eng/03079.html
(For some reason I can only get the link for Quebec convictions to paste properly). All convictions can be seen on the gc.ca website.

Although a couple of years old, this article gets my point across fairly well and only rings truer today.
https://globalnews.ca/news/2178192/h...-oil-plummets/

And before you call me a communist, my reference to 'private companies' wasn't specifying oil companies, I was implying that crown corporations shouldn't be targeting a profit. Private isn't even in the same world.

Should O&G companies be able to make 5-10% profit? Sure.
Should they be able to subsidize that same profit with a necessity of life which they also control? Not in my opinion. But nor do I believe they should take a loss either. Balance is key. $45 oil and $1.26 gas is the largest spread I can ever recall.

And my statement about Supply and Demand is very valid. Canadian consumption has stayed relatively steady over the last several years at 40-42B litres/yr.
If you can show me a chart which directly shows consumption locked to price I'd love to see it.
I looked. Can't find one.
And anyone that does work in O&G (hate to burst your bubble, but I do) knows that refineries ramp up production prior to all scheduled shut-downs so that supply shortages are avoided and their competition doesn't gain market share. Hence the pressure to be back up on schedule. The "there's a shut down going on right now" excuse only works on sheeple.
Unplanned shut-downs are a different story and very rare.
Anyway, different views are a good thing. Keeps things interesting.

Very few industries/companies will ever risk capital for a chance at 5-10% profit unless a utility with a monopoly.

Yes collusion does happen but rare because it is criminal.

Loblaws got lucky because they turned snitch.

Your spread does not take into account costs and refining margins which makes companies produce one product over another hence supply and demand.

Again...you are good at searching. You say companies should make a profit. Find 3 oil companies making a 10% after tax profit over the past three years.

In other words if a company is making 20% profit selling gasoline...then you have an argument worth discussing.

Otherwise a company selling gas at $1.26/litre and making less that 15% after tax profit would fall into your argument as being the good guys and not gouging.

[lilsundance]

Filled up in Lethbridge this morning, 1.139/L get back to St. Albert and its 1.259/L. So 12 cents a liter less down there. If they are basing price on what everyone says in this thread they why a 12 cent difference?

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If people just whined about wanting cheap gas then good on them. When garbage gets spewed about companies being criminal or gouging or colluding then I get rankled.

Someone needs to step up from time to time to counter the made up drivel some write on here.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Yes collusion does happen but rare because it is criminal.

First you contradict yourself, then you say it's rare?

Over 80 convictions for fuel price collusion in just over 4 years in 1 province alone is rare?

I'm out. I don't think this is a fair fight any more.

[pistolero1860]

deleted (endless argument)

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

First you contradict yourself, then you say it's rare?

Over 80 convictions for fuel price collusion in just over 4 years in 1 province alone is rare?

I'm out. I don't think this is a fair fight any more.

11850 gas stations in Canada. Yes it is rare when owners do the wrong thing.

I don't contradict anything when I say that nor that oil companies are not colluding.

Competition Bureau reviews the facts and lay charges if founded.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Filled up in Lethbridge this morning, 1.139/L get back to St. Albert and its 1.259/L. So 12 cents a liter less down there. If they are basing price on what everyone says in this thread they why a 12 cent difference?

You filled up before the price jump. https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/Alberta/Lethbridge

Shows it up now.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Very few industries/companies will ever risk capital for a chance at 5-10% profit unless a utility with a monopoly.

Yes collusion does happen but rare because it is criminal.

Loblaws got lucky because they turned snitch.

Your spread does not take into account costs and refining margins which makes companies produce one product over another hence supply and demand.

Again...you are good at searching. You say companies should make a profit. Find 3 oil companies making a 10% after tax profit over the past three years.

In other words if a company is making 20% profit selling gasoline...then you have an argument worth discussing.

Otherwise a company selling gas at $1.26/litre and making less that 15% after tax profit would fall into your argument as being the good guys and not gouging.

According to the numbers, with gas selling at $1.26 at $100+ a bbl, and now selling $1.26 at $48 a bbl, are you saying that the cost of production has gone up 100%?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Newview01

According to the numbers, with gas selling at $1.26 at $100+ a bbl, and now selling $1.26 at $48 a bbl, are you saying that the cost of production has gone up 100%?

Price is set in Chicago for the commodity gasoline.

If you look at margins and what gets made from a bbl of oil there must be other products commanding more money which then causes less gasoline to be produced which demand raises the price.

If you look at companies and assume a 100% increase means the same increase in profits your assumptions are wrong.

It seems no matter what some people must believe every increase in gasoline prices is evil and a persons attack.

No one will change your emotional and irrational connection however it is understandable everyone lives saving money.

If you find a company making crazy profits on gasoline like you are suggesting... please let me know so I can buy some stock before others find out.

[Kim473]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Gasoline is a commodity that rises and falls.

There is no oil companies making unfair rate of return.

Calling a price rise criminal is totally uncalled for.

If you need knowledge on the subject I would suggest you research the Chicago hub pricing.

That is the location that sets prices in North America. Then transport and special additive costs depending upon company gets added.

If you are referring to the high taxes as being criminal I would agree with that. I feel robbed by the government also.

Sorry. It wasn't clear who you were calling criminals.

https://www.bnn.ca/video/gasoline-se...canada~1370478

This is a good watch.

Do you really believe that ? Gas rises one day by 15 cents then it drops the next day and every day after that by a penny until it drops by 12 cents then repeat ! Slowly just raising the overall everyday price. It's called price fixing ! And that is criminal.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Do you really believe that ? Gas rises one day by 15 cents then it drops the next day and every day after that by a penny until it drops by 12 cents then repeat ! Slowly just raising the overall everyday price. It's called price fixing ! And that is criminal.

You have no clue.

Watch the earlier video post. Read up on supply and demand economics. Learn about full cycle economics.

The most laughable thing some of you are saying is you can’t back it up with any company making obscene profits.

At the same time everyone agrees companies must make profits to survive.

So what is it really? Just upset spending money? Get over it. Only thing that is free is air.

Want everything cheap. Move to Venezuela.

[bobtodrick]

Sundancefisher...your problem is that you expect common sense to prevail here...ain't gonna happen!

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Sundancefisher...your problem is that you expect common sense to prevail here...ain't gonna happen!

Yes sundance is presenting the best arguments.

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Sundancefisher...your problem is that you expect common sense to prevail here...ain't gonna happen!

This.

We use several thousand gallons a month, the price increase is a cost of doing business, I have way more important things to worry about and so should other people. Feel free to make a list......

1) delays in access to healthcare
2) seniors forced into care homes miles from family
3) Hungry children
4) homeless people
5) your timmies being too hot/cold.

[threeforthree]

Recall oil was $147 a BBL, and a litre was $1.47,, back ten years ago

[pistolero1860]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Yes sundance is presenting the best arguments.

No, he isn't.

IMHO he is presenting the arguments of a person who is either involved in oil production, operating or owning gas station(s), or who directly benefits from increasing gas prices.

If so, his opinions are merely self-serving and biased, rendering his credibilty level on the subject as zero.

Of course, if I'm wrong, he only needs to deny that he is involved in oil production, operates or owns gas station(s), or does not directly benefit from increasing gas prices.

I asked him these questions before and he merely deflected and failed to answer them. Instead, he resorted to denigrating anyone who happens to disagree with him.

So, why doesn't he just answer the questions?

What does he have to fear?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

No, he isn't.

IMHO he is presenting the arguments of a person who is either involved in oil production, operating or owning gas station(s), or who directly benefits from increasing gas prices.

If so, his opinions are merely self-serving and biased, rendering his credibilty level on the subject as zero.

Of course, if I'm wrong, he only needs to deny that he is involved in oil production, operates or owns gas station(s), or does not directly benefit from increasing gas prices.

I asked him these questions before and he merely deflected and failed to answer them. Instead, he resorted to denigrating anyone who happens to disagree with him.

So, why doesn't he just answer the questions?

What does he have to fear?

He has provided more real information than you or anyone else has. Sorry.

[pistolero1860]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

He has provided more real information than you or anyone else has. Sorry.

I'm sorry too that this lame defense is the best that you could muster up.

He hasn't answered my very relevant questions though, has he?

His credibilty hinges on this.

Why does he not answer these questions?

What does he have to fear?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

I'm sorry too that this lame defense is the best that you could muster up.

He hasn't answered my very relevant questions though, has he?

His credibilty hinges on this.

Why does he not answer these questions?

What does he have to fear?

He has nothing to fear...he has simply explained the whys and where fores of gasoline pricing in the market place. You and others are convinced that he is hiding something and once again it's the big bad oil companies fault that the gas price jumped. I'm surprised that he even tries to calmly explain it time after time to people whose minds are already made up and it seems they are carrying on just to get their post count up

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

No, he isn't.

IMHO he is presenting the arguments of a person who is either involved in oil production, operating or owning gas station(s), or who directly benefits from increasing gas prices.

If so, his opinions are merely self-serving and biased, rendering his credibilty level on the subject as zero.

Of course, if I'm wrong, he only needs to deny that he is involved in oil production, operates or owns gas station(s), or does not directly benefit from increasing gas prices.

I asked him these questions before and he merely deflected and failed to answer them. Instead, he resorted to denigrating anyone who happens to disagree with him.

So, why doesn't he just answer the questions?

What does he have to fear?

Ok.

You like to cherry pick not accepting facts and instead rely on your emotional opinion.

How about first answer what job you do. How long you have done it. What is the name of the company. What do they manufacture and sell. Where it is sold and for what price. What the pricing has been for the past 20 years.

You want to get into my life story. You share first.

Again...your in the camp apparently that says oil companies are making unfair profits. Show which companies you see that happening with. Love to hear it.

Crickets.

Crickets.

Crickets.



So, why don't you just answer the question?

What do you have to fear? Do you work for the green party? NDP? Or is this AVB3...lol.

[whiteout]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

I'm sorry too that this lame defense is the best that you could muster up.

He hasn't answered my very relevant questions though, has he?

His credibilty hinges on this.

Why does he not answer these questions?

What does he have to fear?

How would knowing who he works for change what he is posted?

No one is arguing for higher prices, just explaining why the prices are affected by a multitude of factors and that Canada doesn’t operate in a vacuum when it comes to gasoline costs.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

I'm sorry too that this lame defense is the best that you could muster up.

He hasn't answered my very relevant questions though, has he?

His credibilty hinges on this.

Why does he not answer these questions?

What does he have to fear?

He has credibility. You on the other hand. Do not.

[pistolero1860]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Ok.

You like to cherry pick not accepting facts and instead rely on your emotional opinion.

How about first answer what job you do. How long you have done it. What is the name of the company. What do they manufacture and sell. Where it is sold and for what price. What the pricing has been for the past 20 years.

You want to get into my life story. You share first.

Again...your in the camp apparently that says oil companies are making unfair profits. Show which companies you see that happening with. Love to hear it.

Crickets.

Crickets.

Crickets.

More deflection, more false accusations, and more silly rhetoric and silly theatrics.

That won't wash.

I'm not asking you for your life story, and I'm not asking you to name your company. And, I'm not asking you to post your resume.

I'm simply asking you to either confirm or deny that you do not directly benefit from rising gas prices in some way.

While it is totally irrelevant, as you well know, here's a rundown on me:

I am retired, and worked as a service technician all of my working life.
I have 4 years of technical education.
I have regular bowel movements and change my underwear every day.

Now, stop deflecting.

Do you own or operate gas station(s)?
Are you employed in, or otherwise involved in in oilfield production?
Do you directly benefit from rising gas prices in some way?

No need for specifics. A yes or no answer to each question will suffice.

What do you have to fear?

[whiteout]

None of what you’re asking changes anything he posted.

All that will happen is your next “argument” is that since he works in O&G, he’s lying and just as corrupt as the oil companies.

[Hagalaz]

I filled up last night. It was 118.9/liter. Not sure what its at right now, but with the snow storm here, they have probably increased the price yet again.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pistolero1860

More deflection, more false accusations, and more silly rhetoric and silly theatrics.

That won't wash.

I'm not asking you for your life story, and I'm not asking you to name your company. And, I'm not asking you to post your resume.

I'm simply asking you to either confirm or deny that you do not directly benefit from rising gas prices in some way.

While it is totally irrelevant, as you well know, here's a rundown on me:

I am retired, and worked as a service technician all of my working life.
I have 4 years of technical education.
I have regular bowel movements and change my underwear every day.

Now, stop deflecting.

Do you own or operate gas station(s)?
Are you employed in, or otherwise involved in in oilfield production?
Do you directly benefit from rising gas prices in some way?

No need for specifics. A yes or no answer to each question will suffice.

What do you have to fear?

Here is more facts for you. I also wear underwear. Not a commando kinda guy. Hate chaffing. So I guessed right. You are not knowledgeable on this topic. I am. I also don't share personal info on the internet just because you demand it as your logic makes no sense. If I owned a gas station. You won't believe me. If I am a fry cook at McDonalds you do.

Anyways. More facts for ya.

https://www.quandl.com/collections/f...dollar-futures

Currently gasoline futures are $0.79/litre whole sale. Then factor in taxes. (Alberta excise tax $0.1749, Federal excise tax $0.10, Carbon levy $0.0673, 5% GST on it all. Then since gasoline is a traded north American commodity you factor in transportation costs and retail costs. Note transportation and retail have profit margins...you admitted people don't have to service you for free.

So...

Wholesale Gasoline $0.79, plus all taxes except GST $0.3422 = $1.1322 times 5% GST = $1.19. Calgary high price this minute is $1.24/liter. Now the retailer / gas station makes a profit of $0.05/liter.

Hmmm.

Cheers

Sun

P.S. Notice I added no value for transportation. So companies are taking it on the chin in the chain.

[Sundancefisher]

Problem is most people don't know that gasoline is often a lost leader to get people to buy in the store. That companies drop prices below wholesale from time to time to try and attract more market share.

I am positive that all oil companies and retail stores would love it if government came in and said all companies get 5 cent a liter profit. No more...no less.