Flattest shooting cartridge part 2

[Mike_W]

Since the boys cant play nice and if others were like me and got sidetracked with a the bickering.

I agree that the cartriges recomended and will look into the 6.5 WSM however I guess I just want a reason to get a new rifle and designate as a elk rifle.

I am quite intrested in the WSM cartriges and like the 270 WSM and the 300WSM however I have thoguth about the 7mm WSM because I dont have a 7 mm caliber does anyone have any info good or bad on this cartridge?

Thanks guys ...now lets try to all get along on this one.

Cheers
Mike

It's my thought that the 7WSM is going to have a short life span. If I had to guess, I'd say the 270 and 300WSM will survive but they may well be the only short mags that do. If you reload no biggie.

If you are looking at a 7mm....I'd look seriously at the 7STW. It's a proven performer and other than the long action, I'd say a better choice than the 7WSM. Just my thoughts anyhow.

[cmfic1]

If you are limiting your choices to .284 (no reason why you shouldnt), then I too would go with the STW. Before all the ballistics experts tackle me, I'm not referring too much to ballistics when I say this, but for what you get IMO it beats the RUM across the board.

I have been pondering the idea of a 6.5-284 or a .25-284 for awhile, & I have a Rifle that could be donated. But this whole .257WSM thing has got me intrigued........man I hate these boards sometimes!

But I think you mentioned you had a .300 WM? If you do, spend your money on boolitz & powder, pick a good 200gr. (or so) bullet and get some serious R&D going on the reloading bench and then move onto some wayyy out targeting, shoot the snot out of it....for what you want to do to an Elk, it will easily handle it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

I agree that the cartriges recomended and will look into the 6.5 WSM however I guess I just want a reason to get a new rifle and designate as a elk rifle.

I am quite intrested in the WSM cartriges and like the 270 WSM and the 300WSM however I have thoguth about the 7mm WSM because I dont have a 7 mm caliber does anyone have any info good or bad on this cartridge?

Cheers
Mike

As far as the 7WSM goes, I haven't seen many rifles chambered in it.
I think Sheephunter is right, it may be a dead horse in a few years, no sweat unless you don't handload.
As far as pure acuracy goes I bleieve there is a one mile record that was held for a while ( it's gotta be broken by now!) by a Savage actioned, Hart barreled 7WSM

The 6.5WSM is a great cartridge, and you can compare it to a 264Win mag , almost identical.
Same as the 6.5/284, same balllistics as a 6.5/06.
So you can ask yourself, " would I be confortable shooting at elk at the ranges I hunt at with these two calibers" That will give you an eaiers benchmark.

The 7WSM can be thrown into the batch with the various 7MM magnums and their hevier bullets. There are faster and slower ones, but for the basics, they are all in the group above the 30/06 level of cartridges.

Same as the 300WSM, throw it into the batch with the rest of the 30 cal mags.

If I were to build a dedicated LONG RANGE elk rifle, it wouldn't be on a 6.5platform ( this comming from a chronic 6.5 looney!)
The reason is because the bullets that are available for hunting those critters
just don't get heavy enough.

I can put itty bitty groups together with more than one of the several 6.5's in my loacker at 500 meters, but we are talking killing here, and a 160 round nose comming out at '06 velocities just doesn't cut it for long range killing of elk and moose , etc.
I would likely go with either a 300,.338 or a 8mm something or - other magnum.
The problem I have is I my shoulder cannot tolerate heavy reoil any more, and i will dispise muzzle brakes, so those big kickers are out iunles they are in VERY heavy guns.
So, to help you along, stay away from the 6.5 magnums for long range elk, but the 7 mags with a heavy bullet MAY do it, but you would have to be very accomplished at long range with them.
There is a oic of Warren page shooting an elk in the 60's with a 7mm Mashburn or (Sharpe and Hart maybe) at 400 plus.
This guy was no ordinary gun nut, and he stated and unless things were perfect as they were for for him ( prone, no wind, range know, etc)
HE would never have taken that shot. This was a guy who is in the benchrest hall of Fame, has won the Weatherby trophy, and likely shot more different kinds of rifles in his day than many of us have seen .
so, you can take that for what it is worth.

Go big for long range killing, I say! ( but make sure you are up to it!)
Cat

.

[cmfic1]

Both will probably go the way of the Dodo bird

I would & could say this about the WSM, but I wouldnt about the STW. Its already been around for quite awhile, and it seems to be getting a strong resurgence with the LR folks south of the border.

If I were to guess (in order) of the 7's that didnt make it, the RUM would be 1st followed by the WSM. IMO the Weatherby would become obsolete before the STW would........I may get flamed for saying that

But I am in total agreeance about picking one or another of the .30 Magnums, for several yrs. the .300 WM was my most fave "All 'round" Cartridge. And it still ranks up there pretty high.

A 190-200gr. in a big .30, or a 160-168gr. in a .284......either will cover whatever North American SR or LR needs you may have.

[LongDraw]

Mike,

Do you reload, or is the plan to stay with factory ammo?

[sdeviation]

If i had to build or get a dedicated gun for long raange huntin for elk...
i would consider .338`s backed buy a hudge powder coloumb,,Rum,or lapua

As far as taking the 7STW over the WSM - pretty hard to justify. Both will probably go the way of the Dodo bird.

It's certainly all open to speculation but the 7STW has been around a long time and is being loaded by all the major ammo manufacturers and many gun makers are offering it as well. The advantage the STW has over the WSM cartridges is that it wasn't introduced by one of the major gun or ammo manufacturers so there was no boycotting by any of the manufactuers. It truly is a generic cartridge but I think the big name players in the industry have served notice that they were only willing to do it once with the STW line. It's a wldcat that definitely went mainstream but you never know I guess.

Sadly, the mainstream life of a cartridge has little to do with its performance and everything to do with acceptance by the big ammo and gun manufacturers.

[cmfic1]

Sadly, the mainstream life of a cartridge has little to do with its performance and everything to do with acceptance by the big ammo and gun manufacturers

Well said.......I may use that for a sig line one day

[Dick284]

I have a bit of a yarn to spin surrounding this LR elk rifle issue.
I was off to visit with the person who holds the #2 Alberta Elk record, Bruce Hale just last week.
This elk scores 418 and was taken at a jaw dropping distance of 400+yds in the early 1970's by Bruce who was shooting a factory loaded 7mm Rem Mag.
It took 2 shots but wow what an elk.

[Bobby B.]

For what it's worth, Mike, I'm in the process of buildinga long range hunting rifle. I settled on the 7RM and a 26" barrel with a 1 in 10" twist. My intent at this point is to load it with the Berger 168 gr. VLD which has a BC of .643. Muzzle velocity should be around the 3000 fps mark. Unfortunately, my reloading manuals don't contain info for bullets with this high of BC so I still need to obtain exact trajectory and energy figures. This cartridge and bullet combo will readily kill elk at 500 yds.

Bobby B.

[Mike_W]

LD I do reload.

Thanks Guys I will take all this info into consideration when purchasing my next rifle.

Thanks
Mike

.

[Mike_W]

Not knowing much about kick with a 338 and 7mm STW and realizing I will need a bit of kick to get good ballistics.

Lets face it being 6'3 and 280 lbs I can handle a big recoil and it doesnt scare me as I learned to shoot @ 16 with a 300 Win mag however I dont like big recoil, I dont think anyone does but how does a 7mm STW and a 338 compare with a 300 win mag....I know gun weight bullet weight and all the different charges you use come into play here but what about as a generalization?

Thanks.

They all kick hard.....

This should help you out http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

It will give you an accurate calulation for recoil...felt recoil is obviously different from gun to gun as there are so many variable (stock design included) but this is the only true comparison of actual recoil for a calibre.

Bottom line....You make a heavy bullet go fast and it's going to kick

[cmfic1]

Like stated above there are several factors involved in trying to compare recoil levels. With 2 like Rifles one a 300 WM the other a 7STW, the STW will likely have more felt recoil, I have both (the 300 is a hair over 6# all up, the STW is @ 9#) so you cant compare these two particular Rifles, but with lots of time behind them, both are manageable.

Now if your talking a .338 Lapua.....your speaking of a whole new idea of recoil!

IMO though, most anyone (barring an injury) with lots of powder burnt, can obtain hunting accuracy with just about anything.

[pika]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Since the boys cant play nice and if others were like me and got sidetracked with a the bickering.

I agree that the cartriges recomended and will look into the 6.5 WSM however I guess I just want a reason to get a new rifle and designate as a elk rifle.

I am quite intrested in the WSM cartriges and like the 270 WSM and the 300WSM however I have thoguth about the 7mm WSM because I dont have a 7 mm caliber does anyone have any info good or bad on this cartridge?

Thanks guys ...now lets try to all get along on this one.

Cheers
Mike

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek064.html

[Mintaka]

.

It's funny, Remington has brought out some great calibres in the past few years but nearly everyone of them has been a dismal failure as far as mass appeal goes. The 300RUM is a classic example. No doubt a great.30 cal but it died a slow lingering death in the world of mainstream cartridges. Not sure why Remington can't bring a calibre to the market and keep it there?

[Mintaka]

.

I have owned three 7mmstw rifles over the years and still own two.I have taken several elk with this cartridge including a handful at between 300 yards and 400 yards.Recoil is actually quite manageable,and in my opinion is certainly no worse than a 300win mag,but then again,I use only 140gr bullets,and have mcmillans with decellerators on all of my rifles.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mintaka

I don't want to start any rumors but I always hear of somebody that has a problem with 300wsm with accuracy, seating depth, or feeding. /I]

I haven't heard this any more than any other calibers from the people I load for.
seating depth is only a concern for the very heavy bullets.

feeding is no worse than other rifles, I have encountered.

I have worked with 10 different WSM's in 270, 300, and 325.
Cat

[Andrzej]

I took novice hunter (160 lbs fellow) out and lended him Rem. 7600 pump stock in 30-06 and my own gun was 7STW with decelerator pad. At lunch I let him shoot 7STW first with 140 TSX and than 30-06 pump second ...150 gr...He would rather shoot 7STW due to felt less recoil..

I shot 7 STW with hot loads in 175 gr. and I would shoot them all day...
300 WSM in friends Tikka Lite with Limbsaver pad now is still good for 5-6 rounds....

[RUM]

Hey Mike

I had 2 model 70's, one in 270WSM and one in 7mmWSM. I REALLY enjoyed shooting both of the calibers. I have not done any reloading for them, but shoot factory 140gn Accubonds out of the 270, and 160gn Accubonds out of the 7. Accuracy is very good, and both are fairly easy on a guy to shoot through an afternoon. Originally I got the 270WSM, but later got the 7WSM just for the simple fact of the ability of shooting a heavier bullet. If you shoot 140gr Accubonds out of the 7WSM, it is very similar performance as the 270WSM, so why not have the ability to go a little heavier when desired I thought? So 270WSM went to a buddy who "needed" it, and I kept the 7WSM! I guess if this cartridge does fade out, not a real issue to start reloading for it, but happy with factory loads so far. Good luck with the decision!

[nekred]

Sorry hit wrong button

[AB2506]

A few years ago, I was at the range and met a guy who had 3 custom Remington 700s in 7STW. I was shooting my 338WM, and neither of us had shot the other cartridge. We swapped rifles for a couple of shots. I was shooting 230 gr Failsafes in the 338 and he was shooting 175 gr partitions in the STW.

The preceived recoil was pretty much equal. The STW was sharper, and the 338 heavier, but the overall perceived comfort level was about the same, not bad.

I made a load this year for my 338WM, a Barnes 185 TSX at about 3200fps. 3.5 " high at 100, 0 at 300, 10" low at 400, about 26" low at 500. Unfortunately, I did not get to shoot an elk with it. The elk wouldn't hold still on the right side of the fence! Anyways, the old 338 was kind of converted to a 7STW for this elk hunt. By the way, 3 shots in an inch.

In the past, I much preferred the heavy "push" of a 338 to the "sharp, hard rap" of a 7mag or 300WM. That's just me, how my body reacts to recoil. Everyone is different, but you can train yourselve to handle recoil with practice and care.

[lazy ike]

The problem I have is I my shoulder cannot tolerate heavy reoil any more, and i will dispise muzzle brakes, so those big kickers are out iunles they are in VERY heavy guns.
So, to help you along, stay away from the 6.5 magnums for long range elk, but the 7 mags with a heavy bullet MAY do it, but you would have to be very accomplished at long range with them.

I think the fella who built this rifle was thinking along the same lines.

7mm wthby mag 26" barrel @ a titch over 9lbs scoped

[depopulator]

Just get a 7mm Rem Mag - it will do 99 % of what the 7STW will do, but is cheaper to feed, easier to get components for reloading, and you can get factory ammo everywhere. It is also easier to load (to get published velocities) than the dead horse 7WSM. IMO it is the best, all around .284 (just don't tell my .280 Rem.). Me, I'll take my 300 RUM for the big and long stuff.

[sbtennex]

Depopulator:
Totally agree. Not a huge magnum fan in the first place - check out the ballistics on Hornady's light and heavy mag ammo - but my 7mm Rem mag is capable of planting anything on this continent out to any distance you care to shoot. Don't especially like either the RUMs or the WSMs, when there are so many capable conventional calibers around, and ammo availability is a legit concern. The .270 Winchester is all anybody should need and there's a good reason it's the baseline for comparison when looking at any big game caliber. Like the .308 Win, there's a reason for it's success and consistent accuracy. It can easily do anything the .270WSM can and ammo can be bought anywhere (again, check out Hornady's 140 gr light mag). For the one gun hunter, however, you can't go wrong with the 7mm Rem mag which can more than hold it's own at ANY range