What a pant load!!!!

Get a load of this crap!!

I sent thing into the Firearms Centre and this is the response:

My Question to them :

Hello,

I registered my non-restricted firearms on the CFC web page and all I
received in the mail was printed out forms of the firearms I registered.
My question is , Was I not supposed to receive a credit card type card to
carry with me while out hunting in the field in the event that I am stopped
and asked to show proof of registration? Do I need to carry proof of
registration while hunting?
Help!!

Any help in this matter would be appreciated!

Thank-You,


There reply:

RESPONSE TO ENQUIRY :

Thank you for your correspondence.

The registration certificates now being issued are in paper format, rather
than in plastic. You may laminate the paper certificates if you wish.

As of January 1, 2001, you should be in a position to produce your licence
if asked to produce it by a peace officer. You should similarly be able to
produce your registration certificates, if requested, as of January 1,
2003.

If you do not have your registration certificate with your firearm as of
January 1, 2003, your firearm could be seized by a peace officer. You would
have 14 days to produce your registration certificate, after which your
firearm would be returned to you.

Section 117.03 of the Criminal Code of Canada relates to this matter and is
copied below for your review. You can find the Criminal Code and the
Firearms Act and their regulations on our web site (www.cfc.gc.ca) in the
Legal texts section.

We hope this is of assistance. Please do not hesitate to contact us again
if you require further information.


Communications Group
Canadian Firearms Centre
------------------------------------------

Seizure on failure to produce authorization
117.03 (1) Notwithstanding section 117.02, a peace officer who finds

(a) a person in possession of a firearm who fails, on demand, to produce,
for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under
which the person may lawfully possess the firearm and a registration
certificate for the firearm, or

(b) a person in possession of a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a
prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition who fails, on demand, to
produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence
under which the person may lawfully possess it,

may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited
device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the
circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this
Part, or the person is under the direct and immediate supervision of
another person who may lawfully possess it.

Return of seized thing on production of authorization
(2) Where a person from whom any thing is seized pursuant to subsection (1)
claims the thing within fourteen days after the seizure and produces for
inspection by the peace officer by whom it was seized, or any other peace
officer having custody of it,

(a) an authorization or a licence under which the person is lawfully
entitled to possess it, and

(b) in the case of a firearm, a registration certificate for the firearm,

the thing shall forthwith be returned to that person.

Forfeiture of seized thing
(3) Where any thing seized pursuant to subsection (1) is not claimed and
returned as and when provided by subsection (2), a peace officer shall
forthwith take the thing before a provincial court judge, who may, after
affording the person from whom it was seized or its owner, if known, an
opportunity to establish that the person is lawfully entitled to possess
it, declare it to be forfeited to Her Majesty, to be disposed of or
otherwise dealt with as the Attorney General directs.

----------------------------------------------------

What a pile of crap!!!

Now I have to carry 8-1/2" X 11" sheets of paper in the bush with me??
What about my PAL...... how come it's not linked up to it so they can phone it in??

What a BS Gov!!!

Hey Machz, bet you wouldn't object to carring a 130# whitetail out of the bush. Hate to say it guys, but a lot of the expense has been due to stuborn resistance. I hate the whole idea myself, especially the thought of the cash outlay and the horrible inconvience of registering. But you know what, many RCMP will be happy when they can clear out the arms of known troublemakers. REAL hunters don't have anything to worry about because of their respectfull outlooks, right?. There's a pile of people that shouldn't have guns or access to guns, and this whole thing will give the RCs a tool to secure their surroundings. Hunters are not the target of registration, in fact it gives them the right to continue their sport. I'm not pro registration, but intentionally hampering the system increases costs. Get wise and support firearms for responsible use.

It's safe to say that "real trouble makers" are proabably not going to bother registering their fire arms, so compliance is not going to change the saftey/danger landscape as far as the cops are concerned. They will still arrive at domestic disputes, check the computer, find out if the occupents are registered gun owners... and if they aren't the cops will still assume there is a gun in the house anyway. How will this $12 billion system make canada any safer? Looks to me like saftey is not the goal.

I agree that those arms in compliance will remain out there, but that's not the point in my mind. As you correctly pointed out, the criminal element will unlikely register, and that is the point. Those arms will be collected as they are discovered. Cops won't be checking any computor. If you can't produce the papers, there gone. I don't think the 12 billion is reasonable by anyones stretch. I trust that the federal commitment would be too embarassing to halt now at this stage.

This legislation has created a lot of new criminals in canada. The old farmer who has a 303 in the closet to shoot a coyote or put down a sick horse and doesn't understand the licensing system. He is now in violation. The woman whose husband dies and leaves guns behind in the attic. The fellow who forgot his Frickin Fac expired in Oct. and cannot get a pal for at least a month. He is in violation. If he goes hunting and gets stopped by the "gestapo", they will try to take his gun away. I hope not too many rcmp get shot and left in the bush when they start dealing with the new criminals the law has created.

Maybe I am totally out to lunch here, but what about americans that come to Canada to hunt? From my understanding they don't need any of the gun licences that we do. The reason I say this is me and a friend of mine up north took a group of Americans out hunting at his slough and some how got talking about all the licensing crap that we have to go through. They hadn't even heard of an FAC or PAL or nothing. They just couldn't believe that we couldn't walk into a store and buy some ammo without the licences. Resident canadians need to go through a bunch of garbage to try and stay legal but Americans can bring their guns up here with no hassle at all?

I'm not saying Americans should be hassled, I appreiciate the money they bring in that helps to keep our great sport alive, but we as Canadians sure shouldn't!

Shrubs

Shrubs,

For information about what is required of Visitors to Canada bringing firearms, check out the Canadian Firearms Centre page on the subject.

Don

Winged1,

Do you truely feel that this registration system will have a beneficial inpact on the Canadian Society?
You state that when the guns that are in non-compliance get discovered by the police, they are gone.? So by your logic in a couple of months there should be no more illegal guns in this country? Are you kidding me? There is nothing being done to curve the smuggling of guns into our country and there is nothing being done to stop the illegal sale of guns in this country. I am constantly dissapointed by the people in this country who still think that the registration can increase public saftety.
The cost of the system has been in the name of "increasing public safety" yet it has been proven all over the world that it does nothing to lower violent crime. So what is the point of the system? There is obviously another motive. Eventual confiscation of certain guns? I think that is not an extreme thought. Just look at Britain.

So to finish my lengthy reply, I ask a couple questions.
1. Why do people like you think, that, because they are going to dump a billion dollars into a system it must have some worth (where is the reasoning there?).
2. Why do people like you insist on spewing out false unproven facts that are purly a regergetation of the liberal propaganda that has missinformed a lot of Canadians. Please talk to some people in law enforcement.

"I trust that the federal commitment would be too embarassing to halt now at this stage."

- Winged1

So winged1, you think that it should be halted? Yet the federal government will not halt it because it would be too embarassing? Explain yourself. You are confusing me on your opinion.

It seems to me that the federal government is not worried about embarassment because they have the mentality of a 4 year old. They do stuff without thinking and it does not seem to matter, so what would be one more error in the management of this country.

Morons

Well lets see, 'So by your logic in a couple of months there should be no more illegal guns in this country?' , ain't my logic, pretty short sighted to even consider that one.

1. Why do people like you think, that, because they are going to dump a billion dollars into a system it must have some worth (where is the reasoning there?). Until proven totally wasted, it's hard to spend that kind of cash without ending up with something, even if it was accidental.

2. Why do people like you insist on spewing out false unproven facts that are purly a regergetation of the liberal propaganda that has missinformed a lot of Canadians. Please talk to some people in law enforcement. - I'm voicing my opinion. I talk to law enforcement. I haven't positioned anything as fact. You on the other hand seem to be convinced of your righteousness. That's fine.

So winged1, you think that it should be halted? Yet the federal government will not halt it because it would be too embarassing? Explain yourself. You are confusing me on your opinion. - The feds have apparently decided to maintain the system without additional funds. I'm confused as to how that will work.

Do you truely feel that this registration system will have a beneficial inpact on the Canadian Society? - I feel that the current system in it's current state may be unusable?. I believe that a registry has use as a tool for law enforcement. I don't know if this registry is usefull in that regards. And that is my real point. Until we know if it truly has potential, or can be made usefull, throughing it out in its entirety may not be the best use of the already spent moneys. So if you feel that is 'spewing out false unproven facts', so be it.

let me ask you this Salmo, as a hunter, how do you feel a gun registry injuries your rights as a hunter?.

I'll speak on behalf of the hunters. As a Hunter who registers his/her firearms your rights as a citizen of Canada are down graded. As soon as the feds get your papers the cops can legally and without warrent search your house one the pretext they are seeing if you meet safe storage requirements. Giving up a constitutional right enjoyed by every non compliant gun owner injures hunters

Winged1,

It is obviously not hard to spend "that kind of cash", and yes they will end up with something. A registration system that does nothing to lower violent crime in this country and legislation that infringes on Canadian's rights, even if you do not believe it does. What has happened to your home being your "safe haven"?
If you have talked to "law enforcement" then why don't you believe what the majority of them are saying. How does my opinion, based on stats and professional opinions, make me self-righteous?

The feds will keep it going in the same manner as they will spend 1 billion dollars by 2005. I wonder what the cost will be by 2020? They will continue to pump more funds into the system because they have not even thought about enacting legislation that makes them the least bit accountable to the Canadian public. Oh no the Auditor General might scold them! Poor Jean gets no more money? I don't think so.

It does not matter if you don't know if it is useful. You should listen to all the law enforcement officers that know it is not useful. 1 billion dollars could support a lot of police helicopters which would be a better tool than a gun registration system that does not focus on illegal guns.

Yes as a Canadian hunter I feel it infringes on my rights (injures me) and sinking this country into further debt, without just cause, injures everyone. The billion dollars is not the end value of operating this registration system. They do not want Canadians to have guns, so you think that the registration will stop at getting your name on a computer?

"The only people that should have guns are the millitary and the police" - Allan Rock
??? I wonder what the motivation was in this legislation.

One consistent thing that I hear from law enforcement is that being able to trace a firearm back to it's last known owner would be a wonderous thing. A registry in itself will not improve public safety. Rock is out to lunch if he thinks so (So much for his candidacy). It's how well the tool is applied that makes it usefull. How many gun owners are out there?, I don't think that the police would be interested in a door to door campaign to invade your privacy. Now if you are involved in spousal abuse, kick the door in.
We should knock on the REAL club"s door here and see what they say. How do they manage their arms within there households. Would they contribute some of there privacy rights so that unREAL hunters (or anyone else for that matter) are held to similar accountability?. I've said it over again, there are many people in this country that should not own guns.
True that this system does not deal with illegal arms. Yet, simple deduction says that if it's not legal, it's ________. Identify one, and the others are known. And besides, I agree that criminals won't register there arms. Imagine the costs associated with attempting that.
The feds may well have bungled the whole thing, and it should have been known that attempting to register every firearm certainly would be a costly thing. I don't disagree with any of that. What I'm saying is that a well laid out, accurate gun registry would be a great tool.

Yes, some people should not own guns but how will you ever keep weapons out of the hands of people that use them improperly. You can take them away but is this solving the issue at hand or will they just use what ever they have at hand.
It is good to see that you agree that the police need more tools at their disposal but is the registry the most efficient use of the 1 billion dollars?
Obviously you think that the registry can be fixed, no matter how much it costs, and we should continue going ahead with it. I disagree and I think the majority of Canadians would agree with me.

"simple deduction says that if it's not legal, it's ________. Identify one, and the others are known." -What do you mean by this? How can the others be "known" if they are smuggled into this country and are sold on the black market? I think I am confused by your reasoning again.

I can see we are both firmly holding onto our opinions and you obviously do not care about how tax dollars are spent in this country.
I hope you had a good hunting season.

Peter

'Obviously you think that the registry can be fixed, no matter how much it costs, and we should continue going ahead with it.' I think you're making things up.

Merry Xmas

That money spent on this system is a waste. Criminals are criminals because they do things that are against the law. Guns don't make people criminals, disobeying the law is something that originates mentally in a person, not because they have a gun. If a person wanted to kill another person and couldn't shoot them, they'd blow em up. If they couldn't blow em up, they'd stab em.

What's next, registering homemade explosives and pocket knives?

My point is that you can take a 50mm cannon and put it in the middle of downtown calgary and that cannon will be as harmless as a flower until someone pulls the trigger.

Shrubs

I registered my firearms. All of them and before the deadline. I received my certificates. I also received a notice that my request to transfer a firearm had been approved. The catch is that this firearm that was mentioned did not belong to me. I apparently had sold a firearm to someone else (the form did not identify the buyer at all), that I had never seen in my life. I called and called the registration line but could not get through. I emailed them and 3 and 1/2 months later had no reply. I mailed my MP and other government members who told me that I would be the person the gun could trace back to as the owner - as winged1 pointed out. But, I never owned the gun. I finally got through on the phone, and was told that a gun shop had mistakenly assigned my name to a firearms sale. My big questions is if this system is so good, and the registration provides such awesome information for cops, how the hell does one sell a firearm and it get approved through the system if it was never even registered to them???? That's right, the gun WAS NOT registered to me, however the firearms registration system allowed me to be the seller even though another person was the registered owner. Feel like the 1 billion is well spent now!??!!