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  #61  
Old 08-17-2019, 08:22 AM
dgrimard dgrimard is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
100% agree

I don't believe we need a handgun to protect ourselves here in Canada.

I also find other weapons far more effective (albeit not as easy to carry around without it being a burden).

I have no objection to the principle of those people who want to carry - but along with Bushleague's comments above ........ those are the same people I wouldn't want carrying !!!!

How many times has a handgun intervened to save the day in some mass shooting, I don't recall it ever happening. I'm sure there are incidents of some store robberies or something like that, but I'm not seeing these violent incidents decreasing due to all these carry permits being issued.

I don't see it reducing crime or making anyone any safer .....

To the contrary, My fear is a bad situation becomes potentially worse - more silly stuff happening with people who shouldn't be carrying or blasting off rounds anywhere near bystanders.

the reason you don't here of it is cause it doesn't fit the media opinion /agenda and that it isn't news worthy if only the criminal dies before they have committed their act.
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  #62  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Yup....just like a folder etc....don't have to advertise to the world.
*Like^
I have a thing with those that open carry. Open carry types always have another agenda for me.
An agenda involving Ego/readily wanting to draw their piece/wanting to display their
importance/power to all the other pedestrian's walking about/shopping..just my 100% immediate
judgement when I see a commoner brandishing his crap when sighted.
My respect level to those OC is always harshly & sharply downgraded.

Last edited by tri777; 08-17-2019 at 10:38 AM.
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  #63  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:32 AM
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Wish we had the option to carry.
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  #64  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Badflies View Post
I don't need a handgun to go grocery shopping, either do you. Back country sure, but if you are packing
around the mall you have some issues. If you are afraid to go outside get some professional help, not more guns.
Right here on AO a member's son got robbed at a ATM machine some months ago in N.Edm,
guess I better arm myself with some professional help to show said lowlife criminal.

Those that carry around a spare tire in their cars should seek professional help
if they are that afraid to go out on the road..

Last edited by tri777; 08-17-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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  #65  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:44 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
100% agree with you but why anyone would carry a handgun in the bush vs any other far more effective and less of a pain in the arse weapon I.e. shotgun, is beyond me.

Handguns are basically useless. My 357 mag shoots a 158 bullet at 1400 fps. Big whup. I'd pack beer spray before I took it out as an animal deterrent.
How is carrying a shotgun less of a pain? I do a little walking, and biking around on the backroads and trails and having long gun slung is more restrictive, and more uncomfortable. If I'm clearing trail, or cutting wood, that gun's probably leaned up a ways away.

I'd argue that the handgun riding a foot away from your hand, vs. the shotgun that you have to unsling, or have a foot race to get to is a better option.

As for power, Elmer Keith took a lot of big animals with a .357. Loaded at about 1300, I've shot through about 8" of wet poplar. If you want to compare that with a shotgun, the typical slugs, and buck that guys throw in there, aren't even close for penetration. I shot a green tree with a 20 gauge as a kid, and realized that the penetration with the slugs I had (probably hollow base) wasn't exactly outstanding, when I could push my finger part way into the tree, and feel the slug.

If you want some real world examples of effectiveness, an upstanding member on here defended himself with a .45 ACP against an 800 lb. sow grizzly. IIRC, he hit her 13 times, and 12 bullets exited. I have both; a .357, and 45 ACP, and the .357 will penetrate better, and likely can use a better shaped bullet than will feed in a .45 Auto.

I think it was about a year ago, that a fishing guide in Alaska killed a grizzly at about 6 feet with a compact, or sub compact 9mm. Think he hit it about 4 times chest and neck, all bullets went through, and it rolled over and died.

The 10 mm Glock is becoming a popular choice for guides in grizzly country. A guy on one of our Canadian forums carries one for his work, as well as the guide who died recently around Jackson Hole. He didn't have his pistol handy however, and the client took off, after he couldn't shoot it. Just read about another guy who used one in a pretty rough and tumble encounter when he was running his dogs. Also video of Ted Nugent dropping a wounded Cape Buffalo, that he was following up on with a 10 mm 1911.

As for spray, it's overhyped as the magic bullet for every encounter. Paid for advertising by the companies that make it. I'm almost positive that it will stop over 90% of bluff charges. Most of them are bluff charges. Maybe up to 90% When you look at that, without further investigation it looks pretty good. But a determined bear won't be stopped. A guy on HBC and Gunnutz got a black bear that wouldn't leave him alone. Sprayed it good about 1/2 dozen times, temporarily driving it back each time. After he ran out of spray, he had to shoot it. Keep in mind that LE are trained to fight through OC, and while bear spray is stronger, consider how much higher a bear's pain threshold and determination is. Just watched a video of a guy, high as a kite that was virtually unaffected by OC, and the cops hosed him down really good.
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  #66  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:55 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
So, if you honestly believe that your life is in eminent danger if you aren’t carrying a side arm, what’s stopping you from carrying one in order to save your life.......the law? That right there tells me that you are more afraid of the consequences of the law than you are of dying and a poor argument for the need to carry. Better to keep it real and just say that it’d be more convenient in the backcountry.
People do. It would be nice to know that you wouldn't be raked over the coals if it happened to be discovered or put into use, though. Even Dad tried to get Mom to carry a little pistol in her purse or the car when she traveled. Used to be a lot more common to carry, even as it got "outlawed".

That firearms instructor out East got into pretty big trouble when he fired a warning shot or two from his revolver, when 3 guys tried burning his house down one night. That it was a revolver, and there was a feud with a psycho neighbor leads me to believe that it was already loaded, and possibly carried JIC.
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  #67  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:57 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
It doesn't matter if you are a police officer, a Brinks guard, a F&W officer, or the guy fly fishing in a stream, or carrying a bow while bow hunting, or gutting an elk. A carbine would be just as awkward, for any of them.
For sure! I'm not in disagreement. The latter example was exactly how that hunting guide got killed down around Jackson Hole.
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  #68  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:03 AM
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Since the 60's I wanted to be able to open carry for grouse or small game in non urban places, at one time I actually thought it might happen. After 50 years I know it's never going to happen and any discussion about concealed carry is a pipe dream.
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  #69  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:04 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
While I am much more interested in wilderness carry, than carrying in urban areas, this is interesting.

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/06/mo...ass-shootings/
No mystery that those murderers like soft targets. Couple instances of citizens stopping those, and assisting police during shootouts.

One pro carry Police Chief went on record, as saying that citizens that carry are as a rule, better shots by far, and have a better record of stopping the threats quickly versus officers responding to a similar threat.
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  #70  
Old 08-17-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bat119 View Post
Since the 60's I wanted to be able to open carry for grouse or small game in non urban places, at one time I actually thought it might happen. After 50 years I know it's never going to happen and any discussion about concealed carry is a pipe dream.
Your right it will never happen. AO is an Echo chamber where like minded people share ideas. If you opened up the idea of wilderness carry to the general public it would be pretty clear the majority would not support it. Even on here some guys are on the fence with wilderness carry vs just carry a m1 vs concealed carry. If your wishing for a wilderness carry you might as well ask for suppressors concealed carry and a grizzly draw. Not even the pc or conservatives want to even talk about legalizing these things.
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  #71  
Old 08-17-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dubious View Post
Your right it will never happen. AO is an Echo chamber where like minded people share ideas. If you opened up the idea of wilderness carry to the general public it would be pretty clear the majority would not support it. Even on here some guys are on the fence with wilderness carry vs just carry a m1 vs concealed carry. If your wishing for a wilderness carry you might as well ask for suppressors concealed carry and a grizzly draw. Not even the pc or conservatives want to even talk about legalizing these things.
Name a single good reason that suppressors are not legal. From a hearing safety standpoint its indefensible that they're not.
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  #72  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Name a single good reason that suppressors are not legal. From a hearing safety standpoint its indefensible that they're not.
Because our gun laws are based on Hollywood not logic, we can't have people running around squirting bullets "pfft" "pfft" like throwing stars bruce Lee throws a star sticking a guys forehead killing him instantly.

We used to throw stars before they taken away it was hard to get one to stick in anything.
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  #73  
Old 08-17-2019, 02:07 PM
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In this day & age of "I'm offended" & other such pink hatted syndrome's,
openly carrying a lawn dart could easily Red Flag the most harmless of people kind.
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  #74  
Old 08-17-2019, 02:45 PM
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Our official stance on suppressors should be that we would like them for hearing protection/ear safety, but we would like "Silencers" to stay banned, because they're too dangerous in our hands. Then all the people who have no idea anyway will be happy.
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  #75  
Old 08-17-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
Wish we had the option to carry.
Yes ^^.
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  #76  
Old 08-17-2019, 09:16 PM
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I carried around a paper weight in Alberta for 27 years, first a .38 then a .40.
Stops being "cool" or "fun" after awhile, if we ever got the option the novelty for most would soon wear out.
On the other hand, I wore a 9mm concealed when I had my house in Phoenix, because I didn't feel as safe there with soo many people carrying
JH
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  #77  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:16 PM
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Noise suppressors would benefit all of my neighbors who do not enjoy listening to me shoot my rifles.

If attacked and knocked down by a gbear, emptying a 1911 into its head from a couple inches away would be a nice option.

If I rope a cow and catch my hand in the dally, having an assisted opening knife that can be operated with one hand might save my fingers.

The emphasis needs to be on who has guns, not what type of guns legitimate owners have.
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  #78  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:36 PM
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Criminals carry unregistered unlicensed guns without legal consent, why can't the law-abiding people carry their registered/ licensed firearms?
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  #79  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:50 PM
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On Facebook Alberta hunting addicts has a lit discussion about carrying handguns. Gotta wonder about some people and their rage issues lol.
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  #80  
Old 08-18-2019, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered user View Post
Criminals carry unregistered unlicensed guns without legal consent, why can't the law-abiding people carry their registered/ licensed firearms?
This , there will always criminals armed
No reason law abiding people should not be allowed to protect themselves or other people if they choose to
I’m sure there is lots of people who protect themselves with firearms and nobody ever hears about it. Because they never needed to fire a shot
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  #81  
Old 08-19-2019, 02:27 PM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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An excellent article on the responsibilities of carrying a weapon
https://loadoutroom.com/118540/op-ed...tol-holstered/
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  #82  
Old 08-21-2019, 04:10 PM
Steelhorse Cowboy Steelhorse Cowboy is offline
 
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It'll never happen.

..that saying 100% concealed carry should be a right..but we dont even have property rights in Canuckistan.

As far a bear defense...spray saves over a pistol...
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  #83  
Old 08-22-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So why aren't police officers, Brinks guards and F&W officers issued M1 Carbines instead of handguns? That same justification, would apply to them as well.
They are issued 870/500's, ar15 variants and MP5's depending on what they doing. There are times when the armored car drivers get to roll with heavy weapons, usually they stay in the back of the truck out of sight. They just get the luxury of carrying both while we get the option of nothing.
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  #84  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:53 PM
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most if not all LEOS are woefully underqualifed to carry, let along shoot anything at more than 5m. My SIL is LEO, ex military very good shot, I have done all the test with him he says he nevers wants to get in a shoot out with me LOL. I have witnessed it first hand at my local range more than once. RC's failing miserably trying to get passed.
Trouble is they get issued about ZERO ammo to practice with, and most have no where to go practice anyway. Any kind of shooting takes practice to be proficient. Been said here many times I thing.

Having said that, while staking coal claims in Ross River and Tungsten claims in MacTung area back in the day, as a licenced prospector was able to carry a 44 mag which put my mind to rest although did a spend more than one day sitting on a ridge waiting for the grizzley party to pass my line so I could contine on lol. Carrying that gun was a great confidence booster, mind you also knowing how to shoot it helped a lot.

I think if carry was allowed it would be great, where I live I often pack the 30-06 to the back yard to even pick peas, so many bears, but packing something else would be so much easier. No problem with any kind of system that would require proficiency as a requirement in fact thats the only way to go.
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  #85  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
How many times has a handgun intervened to save the day in some mass shooting, I don't recall it ever happening.
Easy google search shows up multipl results! Media very RARELY if ever reports on them due to their bias.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Mass_s...armed_citizens

http://memepoliceman.com/list-of-mas...med-civilians/



On a side note, Everyone that claims if they allow ccw there will be mass shootings on every street corner, cops will shoot good guys trying to help,or I wouldn’t want anyone I know carrying concealed has no clue what they are talking about. Unless the majority of gun owners in Canada are dumber than in the USA which I HIGHLY DOUBT responsible people with a carry permit know when to and when not to engage. Even as an LEO I wouldn’t randomly pull my gun and involve myself in a situation unless it was absolutely necessary to prevent death or serious bodily harm. I also know enough that as I’m in plain clothes to expect to be thrown to the dirt and handcuffed at gun point should I ever get involved in a use of force while off duty. All this DESPITE having a badge and LEO credentials. It’s common sense.

If you are going to carry it’s a huge responsibility not to be taken lightly. Including regular practice and taking a course in use of force etc... all programs offered at most gun ranges and multiple sporting goods stores. Some people do others do not, however for how many licensed ccw folks are in the USA rarely do you ever hear of one of them getting into an altercation where they get shot by the police despite trying to help etc... having the belief that there will be shootings on every corner over parking spots between every single person with a ccw is no different or asinine than saying because you have a certain set of body parts automatically makes you a rapist or prostitute.

I’m absolutely amazed at how much misinformation is touted on AO as fact because I heard it once in the bar from my drunk buddy who heard it from his uncle in the states who read it online. Common sense people, read factual articles put out by places like the fbi cdc dhs etc... a great example on a side note would be the fbi report on the 9mm and how there is virtually no ballistic advantage between it and the .40 or 45 with modern day technology.

Oh and I live where you can both open carry and conceal and have never been concerned once about seeing others do so. Hell I see open carry almost every time I go to Walmart or Costco the past 6 years! I choose not to live in fear based on what someone else legally can do!
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  #86  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:39 AM
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Well this thread will predict the outcome of the federal electon just based on peoples comments on here. Quite a few fancy sock people here
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  #87  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:49 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by CritterCommander View Post
most if not all LEOS are woefully underqualifed to carry, let along shoot anything at more than 5m. My SIL is LEO, ex military very good shot, I have done all the test with him he says he nevers wants to get in a shoot out with me LOL. I have witnessed it first hand at my local range more than once. RC's failing miserably trying to get passed.
Trouble is they get issued about ZERO ammo to practice with, and most have no where to go practice anyway. Any kind of shooting takes practice to be proficient. Been said here many times I thing.

Having said that, while staking coal claims in Ross River and Tungsten claims in MacTung area back in the day, as a licenced prospector was able to carry a 44 mag which put my mind to rest although did a spend more than one day sitting on a ridge waiting for the grizzley party to pass my line so I could contine on lol. Carrying that gun was a great confidence booster, mind you also knowing how to shoot it helped a lot.

I think if carry was allowed it would be great, where I live I often pack the 30-06 to the back yard to even pick peas, so many bears, but packing something else would be so much easier. No problem with any kind of system that would require proficiency as a requirement in fact thats the only way to go.
Many LEOs have a range nearby, and could practise on their own time and money if they chose to, but they simply choose not to. I have watched many officers shoot when they rented our range, and many are very poor shots. There isn't much point in many of them even carrying handguns. If I worked in a profession where I was issued a handgun , you can bet that I would make the effort to practise, so I would be capable of protecting my own life.
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  #88  
Old 08-23-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Many LEOs have a range nearby, and could practise on their own time and money if they chose to, but they simply choose not to. I have watched many officers shoot when they rented our range, and many are very poor shots. There isn't much point in many of them even carrying handguns. If I worked in a profession where I was issued a handgun , you can bet that I would make the effort to practise, so I would be capable of protecting my own life.
The problem is many LEO's are not gun people. I wouldn't speculate on the percentage of city cops that do not even own personal firearms but I would guess it's pretty high. They have never had it impressed apon them the importance of regular practice. Many may even consider going to the range uncomfortable, noisy and even a little intimidating.

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  #89  
Old 08-23-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by colroggal View Post
The problem is many LEO's are not gun people. I wouldn't speculate on the percentage of city cops that do not even own personal firearms but I would guess it's pretty high. They have never had it impressed apon them the importance of regular practice. Many may even consider going to the range uncomfortable, noisy and even a little intimidating.

Colin
Whether or not if they choose to own firearms in their personal lives should be irrelevant. If someone is given a firearm with the specific duty to protect human life where they could be discharging that firearm in crowded areas they should be competent in its use. Regular and ongoing training should be a requirement not just what they learn at depot and a yearly qualification. If any LEO finds going to range uncomfortable then they should not be a LEO at all. LEO's deal with all sorts of situations that are far more stressful than a controlled gun range. If they are uncomfortable there what will happen when someone is shooting back with intent to kill?
I have personally witnessed a officer draw their pistol,throwing it down range then proceed to walk down a live range with another officer firing in the bay next to him. It was a civilian that called the cease fire. These are not officers I would feel comfortable carrying around me. Hell Cpl. Butterfingers would probably just throw his gun at the bad guy giving him a second weapon and more ammo
If a civilian could legally carry a pistol after getting qualified they are the ones that would be much more likely to practice at the range and be more comfortable with the use of a firearm. Its just a sad reality on the state of some of LEO's. Of course I'm sure there are many LEO's who are great shots and fully competent but there are many that are not.
And on the lack of situations that would require such intervention, I used to be licensed to carry a baton. I could only use that baton to protect myself if I thought there was an immediate threat of bodily harm or death to my life. I wish I could say that baton was unused but unfortunately is got used more than I would like. Standing before a police officer explaining what happened is very scary, its your word against the suspect. Even with authorization I had to assume every time I used that baton I would be going to jail. I had to justify every action I took while escalating through the use of force continuum. Its not something I took lightly. So those situations are out there. There are times I wonder if being allowed to carry a pistol would have prevented those situations in the first place or would have lead to quicker resolution rather than a hands on situation.
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  #90  
Old 08-23-2019, 04:51 PM
obsessed1 obsessed1 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by fordtruckin View Post
Easy google search shows up multipl results! Media very RARELY if ever reports on them due to their bias.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Mass_s...armed_citizens

http://memepoliceman.com/list-of-mas...med-civilians/



On a side note, Everyone that claims if they allow ccw there will be mass shootings on every street corner, cops will shoot good guys trying to help,or I wouldn’t want anyone I know carrying concealed has no clue what they are talking about. Unless the majority of gun owners in Canada are dumber than in the USA which I HIGHLY DOUBT responsible people with a carry permit know when to and when not to engage. Even as an LEO I wouldn’t randomly pull my gun and involve myself in a situation unless it was absolutely necessary to prevent death or serious bodily harm. I also know enough that as I’m in plain clothes to expect to be thrown to the dirt and handcuffed at gun point should I ever get involved in a use of force while off duty. All this DESPITE having a badge and LEO credentials. It’s common sense.

If you are going to carry it’s a huge responsibility not to be taken lightly. Including regular practice and taking a course in use of force etc... all programs offered at most gun ranges and multiple sporting goods stores. Some people do others do not, however for how many licensed ccw folks are in the USA rarely do you ever hear of one of them getting into an altercation where they get shot by the police despite trying to help etc... having the belief that there will be shootings on every corner over parking spots between every single person with a ccw is no different or asinine than saying because you have a certain set of body parts automatically makes you a rapist or prostitute.

I’m absolutely amazed at how much misinformation is touted on AO as fact because I heard it once in the bar from my drunk buddy who heard it from his uncle in the states who read it online. Common sense people, read factual articles put out by places like the fbi cdc dhs etc... a great example on a side note would be the fbi report on the 9mm and how there is virtually no ballistic advantage between it and the .40 or 45 with modern day technology.

Oh and I live where you can both open carry and conceal and have never been concerned once about seeing others do so. Hell I see open carry almost every time I go to Walmart or Costco the past 6 years! I choose not to live in fear based on what someone else legally can do!
Here's a guy who gets it./\/\/\
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