Five reasons to BAN Spears and Atlatls

[albertaatlatl]

I believe that what's going to happen, is that weapons definition will go through with a definition of an Atlal/Dart/Spear. As much as we may not agree with it, having a small voice will hardly be heard. I'm not for defining what we are "allowed" to hunt with, sounds commy to me, but am willing to put forth a definition of these tools. Our info to ABA is still in the finishing stages and will be available soon.

AA

[MilitaryHuntingandFishing]

When we start defining what weapons are leagal instead of defining what weapons ae not the list of avaliable choices will soon resalt in no choice at all. READ my thoughts on the situation and let me know what you think.

[vsagaon]

in souht America the kill wild Bor

[calgarychef]

This is a prime reason not to post our hunting efforts on YouTube. Folks have been legally hunting bears in Alberta for years and not saying much about it, kind of flying under the wire. They weren't breaking laws but they also knew to keep quiet. Along comes social media and word gets out that people are successfully hunting with spears and BAMO the ABA decides to jump on fellow hunters and put them out of business. I'd say if I was going to hunt with a spear that I'd have kept it quiet.

The problem is that the ABA has done so much good work in the name of bowhunters in the past but these recent actions have added to the perception of elitism. I fear much harm has been done. This might be the beginning of the end of some fantastic hunting opportunities with stick and string.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

This is a prime reason not to post our hunting efforts on YouTube. Folks have been legally hunting bears in Alberta for years and not saying much about it, kind of flying under the wire. They weren't breaking laws but they also knew to keep quiet. Along comes social media and word gets out that people are successfully hunting with spears and BAMO the ABA decides to jump on fellow hunters and put them out of business. I'd say if I was going to hunt with a spear that I'd have kept it quiet.

The problem is that the ABA has done so much good work in the name of bowhunters in the past but these recent actions have added to the perception of elitism. I fear much harm has been done. This might be the beginning of the end of some fantastic hunting opportunities with stick and string.

I only joined this forum last year, and never even new the ABA existed. I was actually thinking of joining the ABA. I would like to do some 3D shoots and meet other bow hunters. I don't know any traditional bow shooters.

After learning of the proposal to ban spears and altatls I have scraped that idea. If anything the ABA would have been the perfect group to help defend these methods of hunting. The roots of the bow and arrow originated from spears and alatls and to have a group of bow hunters just throw the history of hunting with these methods under the bus as some have said, say's a lot about this organization. So yes, harm has been done. Hopefully the ABA opens there eyes and see's the big picture and they bring albertaatlatl's definition of these tools to the table in 2015 and show a little support.

[MilitaryHuntingandFishing]

Help save the Atlatl http://militaryhuntingandfishing.com...to-ban-atlatl/

[albertaatlatl]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I only joined this forum last year, and never even new the ABA existed. I was actually thinking of joining the ABA. I would like to do some 3D shoots and meet other bow hunters. I don't know any traditional bow shooters.

After learning of the proposal to ban spears and altatls I have scraped that idea. If anything the ABA would have been the perfect group to help defend these methods of hunting. The roots of the bow and arrow originated from spears and alatls and to have a group of bow hunters just throw the history of hunting with these methods under the bus as some have said, say's a lot about this organization. So yes, harm has been done. Hopefully the ABA opens there eyes and see's the big picture and they bring albertaatlatl's definition of these tools to the table in 2015 and show a little support.

Hopefully, but doubtful! We'll see at the table!

[albertaatlatl]

Originally Posted by MilitaryHuntingandFishing

When we start defining what weapons are leagal instead of defining what weapons ae not the list of avaliable choices will soon resalt in no choice at all. READ my thoughts on the situation and let me know what you think.

Read and agree 100%. I'm still not sure why, except for one person's thoughts, a bowhunting organization "upholding the rights of hunters" in Alberta would take the steps to ban a weapon because of primitiveness and a video OF BOWHUNTING. Seriously, next step to take place, logically, will be to ban primitive archery. I agree with Cat, in that videos on youtube are a bad idea. By the way, how many vids are of using a spear and/or an Atlatl? And how many BAD vids are there of Bowhunters with MODERN equip? I have a collection at home on bowhunting, and many times the animal is shot from 90+ yards, and followed till the sun goes down! BUT....that's ACCEPTABLE? Anyways, that's another rant on bows, carbon arrows,etc. and not for this thread.

[Pudelpointer]

Really 338? You are an "avid bowhunter" yet you don't even know the minimum poundage required for a hunting bow in AB? Show where in the regulation it says ANYTHING about how sharp a broadhead needs to be... Let me save you some time; it doesn't. It says that a broadhead must be a minimum 7/8" wide and can't be designed to resist being pulled out.

The ABA has tried to rewrite history - fact: they proposed to BAN spears and atlatls. But keep it up, it is mighty entertaining.

[MilitaryHuntingandFishing]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Which organization are you refering too? The one that was only trying to get weapons re-defined to ensure a quick humane kill? Maybe dull butter knives tied to a broom handle are all that is required? I am sick of the garbage you continue to spew and the attacks on bowhunting.

Most of this issue has had the facts twisted out of all recognition by one of Alberta's most anti-ABA and vehement pro-crossbow apologists we have seen. I have no doubt that this issue is being used in a very cynical and disingenuous manner. I am so disgusted by this that I will refuse to buy any magazine that donkey has written in or buy any product he has endorsed.

As an avid archer and bowhunter I could support the use of Atlatl's, spears, whatever. They just need to be defined. A rifle needs to be .243, a bow needs to be 45#'s with a sharp broadhead, and a spear needs to be (?????).

If you can't get that then you don't want to know what I think you can do with your spear.

So are you against the ban?

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Really 338? You are an "avid bowhunter" yet you don't even know the minimum poundage required for a hunting bow in AB? Show where in the regulation it says ANYTHING about how sharp a broadhead needs to be... Let me save you some time; it doesn't. It says that a broadhead must be a minimum 7/8" wide and can't be designed to resist being pulled out.

The ABA has tried to rewrite history - fact: they proposed to BAN spears and atlatls. But keep it up, it is mighty entertaining.

And Why is it up to a Bowhunting Org to deside what other weapons other then a Bow Should have regulations imposed on them? I just think the "BowHunting" Thing gives it all away.

[albertaatlatl]

The organization who IS trying to ban hunting tools. The organization that chose to "redefine" a hunting weapon after causing a huge stink in the hunting community! By the organization, I do not mean all members, rather those who choose to write such propaganda on behalf of a membership not notified or surveyed or informed of such. I am not personally against the ABA, I'm a member in good standing, rather against the "process" taken to introduce such a proposal, and the subsequent back stepping. Common knowledge, in print, states what started the argument and how it has evolved since. Pro-crossbow? Not really! My take is they belong in General. It's called General for a reason. General is nonspecific. Bow, rifle, spear, whatever! I think alot will be surprised at the regulation imposed on spears and as well on Atlatls. I am pro-HUNTING. Whatever tool you choose, within reason!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Which organization are you refering too? The one that was only trying to get weapons re-defined to ensure a quick humane kill? Maybe dull butter knives tied to a broom handle are all that is required? I am sick of the garbage you continue to spew and the attacks on bowhunting.

Most of this issue has had the facts twisted out of all recognition by one of Alberta's most anti-ABA and vehement pro-crossbow apologists we have seen. I have no doubt that this issue is being used in a very cynical and disingenuous manner. I am so disgusted by this that I will refuse to buy any magazine that donkey has written in or buy any product he has endorsed.

As an avid archer and bowhunter I could support the use of Atlatl's, spears, whatever. They just need to be defined. A rifle needs to be .243, a bow needs to be 45#'s with a sharp broadhead, and a spear needs to be (?????).

If you can't get that then you don't want to know what I think you can do with your spear.

Are you an ABA member? If so, were you informed by the ABA of their proposal to ban spears/atlatls BEFORE I brought it up here?


Do Remember, I am the one that first brought this ABA proposal to public light after discussing the issue with Brent Watson for several hours over several phone conversations. I revealed Confirmed facts and documents offered by Brent Watson and other AGMAG hunting group executives (AFGA, SCI).

The misinformation (to put it politely) and fact twisting has come from the ABA executive. Contrary to the ABA public letters, these two ABA executives have posted on AO confirming the ABA Proposal to BAN spears/atlatls had been presented to AGMAG.


NBFK - Cole O'Neill ABA Secretary
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...1&postcount=83
"Yes I support this proposal 100% why would I want to bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick."



BigRackLover- Gord Nuttall
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=159
"It (ABA Spear/Atlatl Ban proposal) cannot be withdrawn "

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Are you an ABA member? If so, were you informed by the ABA of their proposal to ban spears/atlatls BEFORE I brought it up here?


Do Remember, I am the one that first brought this ABA proposal to public light after discussing the issue with Brent Watson for several hours over several phone conversations. I revealed Confirmed facts and documents offered by Brent Watson and other AGMAG hunting group executives (AFGA, SCI).

The misinformation (to put it politely) and fact twisting has come from the ABA executive. Contrary to the ABA public letters, these two ABA executives have posted on AO confirming the ABA Proposal to BAN spears/atlatls had been presented to AGMAG.


NBFK - Cole O'Neill ABA Secretary
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...1&postcount=83
"Yes I support this proposal 100% why would I want to bludgeon an animal to death with a pointy stick."



BigRackLover- Gord Nuttall
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=159
"It (ABA Spear/Atlatl Ban proposal) cannot be withdrawn "

Is it possible the ABA was asked to consult and write up a proposal on the behalf of ESRD.....?

It is my understanding the redefining was already in motion prior to the submission by the ABA.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Is it possible the ABA was asked to consult and write up a proposal on the behalf of ESRD.....?

It is my understanding the redefining was already in motion prior to the submission by the ABA.

LC

Possible, but why would ESRD do that? That's not how AGMAG is supposed to work. ESRD are big boys, they can and do table their own proposals.
If this was true, then both the ABA and ESRD have some explaining to do.



No, that is not true. As I posted before with the corresponding AGMAG minutes, this all started when Brent Watson tabled the ABA proposal to ban Spears and Atlatls in May 2013. ESRD did not bring up the discussion to re-define legal weapons until Jan 2014.


Would ESRD have opened up a discussion on re-defining legal weapons if the ABA did not table their ban proposal? Maybe, but now we will never know.

[HunterDave]

Keep their feet to the fire, Walking Buffalo!

[shep dog]

Why ban Spears and Atlatls?

Here's reason #6: They make a mess out of a gopher, not good for mounting or eating.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by shep dog

Why ban Spears and Atlatls?

Here's reason #6: They make a mess out of a gopher, not good for mounting or eating.

Levity appreciated.

[eltorro]

I never bow-hunted in my life. It is cruel. I saw a deer with an arrow sticking out. I find it cruel. Ban bow hunting. NOW !!! Bows are silent and dangerous.



I hope we can all read on how this is, for all of us. Is there a reason why education is not better than imposing one's will over others' ?

How about freedom? Do you want to hunt with a bow? Fine with me. I don't have to like it, or embrace it. But I will certainly respect your choice. I will hope to even try it one day. If so many people find it addictive, there must be some truth in it, no? Same for spears and atlatl
.
I remember in Ontario it was legal to hunt big game with any centerfire cartridge. That included moose with 17Rem. Did any "take advantage" of this? Highly doubt it. So if an activity that pertains to common sense is allowed to self-regulate, why is everyone bent to ban-this, ban-that? All hunters know what is ok and what is not.
No amount of regulation can instill decency.

And if someone wants to hunt with a spear, let them do it. What is YOUR problem with it? Do you feel as a steward of wildlife? We all do, and should stick together. Do you think hunting a bear with a spear is unethical? Make you opinion known and then debate. Banning is never a solution, but for the narrow-minded.

[BigRackLover]

Cabela's has spears for sale ... the new North Edmonton store. heavy things.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by eltorro

I never bow-hunted in my life. It is cruel. I saw a deer with an arrow sticking out. I find it cruel. Ban bow hunting. NOW !!! Bows are silent and dangerous.



I hope we can all read on how this is, for all of us. Is there a reason why education is not better than imposing one's will over others' ?

How about freedom? Do you want to hunt with a bow? Fine with me. I don't have to like it, or embrace it. But I will certainly respect your choice. I will hope to even try it one day. If so many people find it addictive, there must be some truth in it, no? Same for spears and atlatl
.
I remember in Ontario it was legal to hunt big game with any centerfire cartridge. That included moose with 17Rem. Did any "take advantage" of this? Highly doubt it. So if an activity that pertains to common sense is allowed to self-regulate, why is everyone bent to ban-this, ban-that? All hunters know what is ok and what is not.
No amount of regulation can instill decency.

And if someone wants to hunt with a spear, let them do it. What is YOUR problem with it? Do you feel as a steward of wildlife? We all do, and should stick together. Do you think hunting a bear with a spear is unethical? Make you opinion known and then debate. Banning is never a solution, but for the narrow-minded.

The reason to Ban Spears and Atlatls is simple, according to the ABA executive. Somebody might complain.

Actually someone did complain, the ABA executive.

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

Cabela's has spears for sale ... the new North Edmonton store. heavy things.

Yup, much heavier than an arrow, which is part of what makes spears and darts so effective.


As an ABA executive that has previously expressed support for the ABA proposal banning Spears and Atlatls, are you and the ABA executive going to continue to lobby ESRD to ban these weapons?

[BigRackLover]

I'm going bowhunting this fall.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

I'm going bowhunting this fall.

Where is the "like" button....me too!

LC

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

I'm going bowhunting this fall.

Me too.Then going spear hunting in November. Wish I could say for surtanty that next year I will be able to do the same.

[Deer Hunter]

This is nothing but a distraction over issues that are more important.
But you people eat it up. At least the 4 or 5 of you still beating this dead horse.

If it takes banning these things to move on, hurry up and ban them. Small sacrifice IMO.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

I'm going bowhunting this fall.

Sorry if I missed you answering the previous question before your edit.
Yah, I'm dreaming....



What is with the ABA executive? Why won't any of you answer this simple question from your membership?

I guess we'll just have to wait for next weeks AGMAG meeting to find out the answer from the other groups that actually do respond to their members' questions.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

This is nothing but a distraction over issues that are more important.
But you people eat it up. At least the 4 or 5 of you still beating this dead horse.

If it takes banning these things to move on, hurry up and ban them. Small sacrifice IMO.

And what issues are more important than this, to the people that either already hunt with them or want to become proficient enough to hunt with a spear or atlatl??
Or to the people that have no desire to, but do not want to see a special interest group banned because of the desire of a different special interest group?

Cat

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

This is nothing but a distraction over issues that are more important.
But you people eat it up. At least the 4 or 5 of you still beating this dead horse.

If it takes banning these things to move on, hurry up and ban them. Small sacrifice IMO.

So what is so much more important?

I guess the 4 or 5 of us should just stop posting to make you feel better? Maybe that's what this all about, To make some people feel better?

So when someone tries to ban your method next it is just a small sacrifice that you will have to make?

I have said it before, us hunters should stick together and comments like yours do nothing but divide hunters.

[Deer Hunter]

If you think that this is the most pressing issue facing hunters in Alberta then don't bother reading any further.

As for sticking together. I like motherhood statements as much as anyone but there are far too many groups pulling opportunity away from the majority resident hunter group. They talk this "sticking together" crap out of one side of their mouth, while looking at ways to expand their group/business out of the other. At the loss of much larger groups then the spear crowd.

The resident representation in this province couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. IMO.

"Stop posting" ??? The fact is that few post here anymore so if your posting makes you feel like you're accomplishing something then I'm sure not going to suggest you stop.

Spear away.

[J D]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

If you think that this is the most pressing issue facing hunters in Alberta then don't bother reading any further.

As for sticking together. I like motherhood statements as much as anyone but there are far too many groups pulling opportunity away from the majority resident hunter group. They talk this "sticking together" crap out of one side of their mouth, while looking at ways to expand their group/business out of the other. At the loss of much larger groups then the spear crowd.

The resident representation in this province couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. IMO.

"Stop posting" ??? The fact is that few post here anymore so if your posting makes you feel like you're accomplishing something then I'm sure not going to suggest you stop.

Spear away.

Throwing one group under the bus in hopes another is left alone is a cowards way to address an issue. This never solves anything and is not effective it is a delay tactic at best.

I will agree with you on one thing there are bigger issues out there. This is another reason why the ABA should not have brought the spear issue up as it is a waste of resources that could have been used to address more important issues.

If you want to see bigger issues addressed you need to show hunting organizations not to waste their time with stuff like spears/atlatals and focus on what is important.

[BigRackLover]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Sorry if I missed you answering the previous question before your edit.
Yah, I'm dreaming....



What is with the ABA executive? Why won't any of you answer this simple question from your membership?

I guess we'll just have to wait for next weeks AGMAG meeting to find out the answer from the other groups that actually do respond to their members' questions.

Where do you get this chit?

We respond to all questions - check out a newsletter. Why are you (and others) demanding explannation/stance from the ABA before all the discussion/facts have been presented but not from other (larger) groups that participate in AGMAG.