Singlehand spey casting

[flint guy]

I just bought a streamside serenity 9/10wt 2 pc 9'6" paired with their prestige reel. It was a great deal, 160$ brand new.

My intentions are to pike and walleye fish with this rod, eventually when I get the chance, toss some flys to the salmon or steelhead. I wanted something heavy enough to fight the wind, and toss big 6" poppers and such. It will fish still water and rivers in my hands. I want to use it like a switch rod.

This was an impulse buy, so I have a few questions, as I have never fished heavier than a 7wt, or a spey rod period.

Does anybody use spey techniques with single hand rods, with a fighting style butt? If so what line and such would you recomend? Skagit, or maybe regular wf8f? I want to be able to cast distance. I currrently have a 4 wt med light, and its not enough rod for most fish like pike or walleye, for my casting ability in wind, for distance or with streamers. With no room to back cast, I have adopted a snakeroll type cast, and do ok. I would like to learn a double spey and snap t style also, but just cant afford a spey or switch rod. My 4wt 9 ft doesnt seem to load enough to shoot my floating line, or pick up the anchor in snap t or double spey casts. Could be my bad style, i have never done this before.
Delicate presentation and pretty casts Im sure are out, but could I toss smaller say #10 goldeye stuff like chernoble ants or other simular drys without snapping them off casting and will they turn over with spey or regular overhead casts? Is it un reasonable to think I can catch medium trout or goldeye size fish on this monster heavy line and rod, or is it so heavy Ill back cast 6" fish oblivious they are on the hook?? What leader condisderations for small flies? Bite offs on large pike flys for a spey cast? Like I said this big bore stuff is new to me, as is spey.

[FlyTheory]

In my opinion, you'd want to throw on a line with a skagit style taper. A good choice for this is Rio outbound short or airflo forty plus sniper line. Both those lines can be casted singlehand and underhand. They will cast very well in many situations, but don't expect to fire out skagit-master-esque 45m spey casts with those lines. Having said that, if you can double haul with a single hand spey cast, you'll be able to achieve a 20m cast easily. I personally have a 10' 8wt rod paired with a 8wt rio outbound short, and I am able to do single hand spey casts. Again, I personally think that being able to double haul is pretty important to shoot your line far.
You can also do a running line and skagit line setup, but if you use mono running line, it will be a little harder on your fingers.

[fishman]

Choosing line u will need to go down 2 line sizes usuing switch rod chart
So rod being a 8-9 u would need 6-7 skadgit line
I have a 10 ft single handed rod I use both scandy and skadgit
Lines on it with sucess works good on smaller rivers
I also have a 8 weight switch rod and 8 weight Spey rod
That all have there purposes

[abbgdr]

I have a 10 weight rod that throws my 540gr Skagit head just fine. It also does well with my 480gr Skandi short. You'd be surprised at the wide range of lines you can handle by adjusting your technique.

[fishman]

Originally Posted by abbgdr

I have a 10 weight rod that throws my 540gr Skagit head just fine. It also does well with my 480gr Skandi short. You'd be surprised at the wide range of lines you can handle by adjusting your technique.

Yup talk to fishing stores out here about all the broken rods from over loading there rods

[flint guy]

Thanks fly theory, I like the rio gold in my sage, so I looked around the website and found some great infor available as a download. It was written well, for a layman. Anyways I was very interested in the switch lines. The chucker claims extra easy casting, and Im leaning towards the easy casting crutch of the chucker. I also like the versitip fly line, but it would probably not spey cast well. The outbound and musky lines seem to have simular profile to the switch line. Im still not sure what the difference is between switch and standard fly lines. Do you also overhead cast the outbound like a regular fly line? Are you traditional or skagit casting it?

Fishman, regarding the line weight charts. If i was to use a standard spey line I would go down one or two line weights for a switch rod correct? I am thinking switch line on a regular fly rod, would I still go down a size? Head weights and length seem to be simular on switch and regular fly lines.

So many choices and so little money.

[abbgdr]

Originally Posted by fishman

Yup talk to fishing stores out here about all the broken rods from over loading there rods

If my 7/8 weight 12'6" rod can handle the full length of a skagit or skandi line, then a 9' Rod that is loading substantially less of those same lines is in no danger. A 9 ft rod can't spey cast the same amount of line as a 12 1/2 ft rod,,,add a sink tip and it's even less. If a 10 weight Rod is rated for 270-290 gr then do some simple math based on how much line you actually have past your rod tip when your single hand spey casting.

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by flint guy

Thanks fly theory, I like the rio gold in my sage, so I looked around the website and found some great infor available as a download. It was written well, for a layman. Anyways I was very interested in the switch lines. The chucker claims extra easy casting, and Im leaning towards the easy casting crutch of the chucker. I also like the versitip fly line, but it would probably not spey cast well. The outbound and musky lines seem to have simular profile to the switch line. Im still not sure what the difference is between switch and standard fly lines. Do you also overhead cast the outbound like a regular fly line? Are you traditional or skagit casting it?.

The chucker would also be a good option. Dont get too caught up in the terminology between switch lines and single lines, because it all comes down to line profile, some single hand lines have a similar profiles to 2handed lines (i.e. rio outbound short vs switch chucker, both have very similar bodies). What you're looking for is the right profile for you. The right profile (from what you've asked in your OP) is something that has a similar feel to a skagit setup that you can overhand cast like a single hand.
Ultimately what you're looking for is a short and heavy headed line with a integrated shooting line. The Rio lines that generally fit that profile are the pike/musky line, outbound short, switch chucker, and just the regular outbound (longer head though, it would fish more like a scandi). Personally I have experience with the outbound short, which I cast regularly and some single hand spey casts (switch cast mostly - which is basically a single spey without changing direction) when there isn't a ton of back cast room. I'm sure you'd find similar results with all the selections, it just comes down to experimenting and personal preference.

[flint guy]

Great advice. Have you used mow tips on your outbound line? To add versatility of sinking tips without a spool/line change.
I usually tie my own tapered leaders, I read some are starting with 60 lb floro and 40 hinges. would a #25 be heavy enough for a hinge behind a 40lb but?

[Bhflyfisher]

I think expectations might be a bit to high here. However I may be interpreting this wrong. From what i gather from your original post is you're looking to "try" to spey cast/switch cast 6"+ big stuff, and that is going to be extremely difficult for even an experienced spey caster, with a full spey rod let alone a single hand rod. However if you're looking at single hand casting those poppers and pike flies, your rod will have no issue in doing so with Rios pike musky taper or the outbound short.

Now to answer your second question in regards to using it for salmon/steelhead.... Theres one very good line that i always recommend, and have used it on the island on a 10' 6wt for pinks and coho. Snowbee's switch line is bar none one of the best lines i've ever fished as far as roll/switch casting with tips go with a single hand rod.

http://www.snowbee.co.uk/_webedit/up...ch%20Lines.pdf

These can be purchased either from snowbee directly, or from nile creek fly shop on vancouver island. Courtney at Nile creek will give you a wealth of information if you give him a call. He may be the best person to ask.

I fished the 3/4 snowbee switch line on my 10' 6wt, meaning something in the 6/7 size would probably be best for your 9wt. If you're planning on primarily fishing tips like all salmon/steelheaders do with the switch style casting, its better to lean on the lighter side of the grain window (ie 6wt-7wt switch line for a 9wt). HOWEVER, You cannot expect to be able to throw the heavy lead core tips on a single hand rod with ease like what is common place for steelhead/salmon fishing. T-11 -> T-20 will be pretty well impossible. Poly tips/versitips will be your friends in your scenario. I have casted the rio switch line, and unsure if i really enjoy it. There wont be one line that will do it all. In order to do this properly its going to involve purchases a 2-3 different lines, and practicing, or taking lessons.

Few people on here have much experience with successful spey casting/fishing (myself included), we dont live in a province with proper fisheries to dictate doing so, we have the eager beavers who insist its this "new thing" thats really cool to do, however in few places is it practical. So i wouldn't be making your decision based on our advice from here. Your question may be better suited to speypages.com, or call fish tales in Calgary and pose your question, and buy your line from them.

[jeprli]

Bump for snow bee switch line. I was struggling with different setups until I tried this line. My switch never felt better.

[fishman]

Originally Posted by abbgdr

If my 7/8 weight 12'6" rod can handle the full length of a skagit or skandi line, then a 9' Rod that is loading substantially less of those same lines is in no danger. A 9 ft rod can't spey cast the same amount of line as a 12 1/2 ft rod,,,add a sink tip and it's even less. If a 10 weight Rod is rated for 270-290 gr then do some simple math based on how much line you actually have past your rod tip when your single hand spey casting.

U can do whatever your comfortable with. Overloading rods breaks them and if u have the math figured out fine the novice won't know this
Also we r playing 30+ salmon in current u better not overload the rod or snap

[fishman]

Originally Posted by flint guy

Thanks fly theory, I like the rio gold in my sage, so I looked around the website and found some great infor available as a download. It was written well, for a layman. Anyways I was very interested in the switch lines. The chucker claims extra easy casting, and Im leaning towards the easy casting crutch of the chucker. I also like the versitip fly line, but it would probably not spey cast well. The outbound and musky lines seem to have simular profile to the switch line. Im still not sure what the difference is between switch and standard fly lines. Do you also overhead cast the outbound like a regular fly line? Are you traditional or skagit casting it?

Fishman, regarding the line weight charts. If i was to use a standard spey line I would go down one or two line weights for a switch rod correct? I am thinking switch line on a regular fly rod, would I still go down a size? Head weights and length seem to be simular on switch and regular fly lines.



So many choices and so little money.

Yes go down sizes with your single hand rod using switch line

Eg I have 3 rods all 8 weight
Single hand 10' skadgit 325grains
Switch 11' skadgit 475 grains
Spey 12'4 skadgit 525 grains

[fishman]

My lines r snowbee and Beulah can't go wrong with them

[flint guy]

I understand Im asking alot from one line, or one rod. My true reason for pursuing the spey style casting is to eliminate the need for back casting space, this rod will be used for pike, realistically 60/40 % still water and rivers respectively, shore or wade in

Everybody here has given some great advice, and it was the starting point to do alot of the research on my own. I certianly learned alot, and its always good to hear from the locals as to what they use. Saves some time and frustration.

I was unaware tossing big flys would be more difficult with a spey set up. Again I was skooled, good thing. I will probably end up overhead and roll casting, as thats what Im familiar with. The spey stuff just looks like so much fun.

I think I have settled on the rio pike and musky line. Its designed to do just what im after, has a good profile to try some spey or at least skagit stuff, and gets my pickle dipped in the technique without investing in a $800 or more package. Ill be heading to the river this weekend in the city on snowsoes and or crampons to look for some open water, the weather should be nice.

Any more input would be great if anybody is fishing northerns in a simular fashion. Has anybody a good source for big pike steamers poppers? Canadian source preferred.

Next mission, fly fishing sturgeon! (Kidding)

[fishman]

Skadgit line is for throwing big flys
Scandinavia line is for indicator and smaller flys
Spey makes it easier on your body, roll casting, throwing farther distant and yes u can use bigger flys

[flint guy]

The musky line is very simular to the skagit profiles, From video research the casts are something I already do from the canoe with my small rod... In a bastardized fashion.
Skagit is supposed to be easier as a style, so that suits me fine. Tosses and turns iver heavy leaders and big flies.. Good. Still makes reasonable overhead and standard roll casts.. Gooder. Says musky and pike in the box for my susceptibility to marketing.. Goodest.

If anybody sees a guy tossin flies in the snow this weekend, it probably me. Come say hi... Just duck as Im new to this. Ha ha.

[abbgdr]

A person has to be sensible about what tackle you use. Being originally from the coast, i have seen a lot of folks pushing the envelope with light tackle. And breaking it. A buddy of mines favorite rod for pinks was his 4 wt, I've caught more 12-25 lb chum on a 10' 6 wt than anything else,, but it fished more like an 8 than a 6. Your always better off talking to the guys who do it day in and day out, as tackle is constantly evolving. It's been 20 years since I first started playing with a spey rod and cutting and splicing lines trying to make it work. I'm still convinced that the whole spey/skagit heavy sink tip scene is overly contrived at times and there's just some water your better off going to a centerpin. That may be sacrilege to some die hard fly guys,, but just remember, most of them probably wouldn't know how to cast a centerpin and if they did hook up probably wouldn't land it because a centerpin has no drag... And what's the first thing every fly guy will tell you about buying a salmon fly reel?.. It HAS to have a good drag,,, I love fly fishing more than most, BUT,, it's not the best technique for all water. When I was up on the Kispiox this fall I watched some guys flog the water to a foam with their spey lines and not catch a thing for three straight days. I guess I lack the intestinal fortitude to keeping beating my head against that proverbial wall,, too ADD or something, I had to switch gear. And began catching fish in the same water. To me it's not so important how but that I catch fish. A chrome steely on a 12' centerpin rod feels just as good and is actually more challenging to land. To each their own,, but I like actually catching fish,, some guys just love spey casting,, obviously its more important than catching fish to some. Fish or cast anyway that blows your skirt up,, any day on the water is a gift, enjoy it to the fullest! A lot of the enjoyment comes with the expermenting and learning what works for you. Just don't let yourself be limited by someone else's narrow mindedness. I used to get funny looks 20 years ago when I experimented with putting a fly reel and line on my 12' centerpin rod,, now short spey/switch rods are all the rage. Go figure,,,

[flint guy]

I have had a few good runs down the Thompson and fraser river banks fearing for my line as the bare spool started to show through the backing. Drag smag... It just slows em a bit and keeps line tension while you chase em along shore. Them big salmon and steelies can sure swim man. I used to fish em with a 7 wt. fished everything as a matter if fact in bc interior on that rod. A 9 ft 6 glass shakespere if I remember right. Surplus herbies in kamloops bc I think.

That being said abbgdr, should I wear a skirt when I fish? It never helped my catching fish, but it always helps to keep the other fisherman at a distance.

[fishman]

Originally Posted by abbgdr

A person has to be sensible about what tackle you use. Being originally from the coast, i have seen a lot of folks pushing the envelope with light tackle. And breaking it. A buddy of mines favorite rod for pinks was his 4 wt, I've caught more 12-25 lb chum on a 10' 6 wt than anything else,, but it fished more like an 8 than a 6. Your always better off talking to the guys who do it day in and day out, as tackle is constantly evolving. It's been 20 years since I first started playing with a spey rod and cutting and splicing lines trying to make it work. I'm still convinced that the whole spey/skagit heavy sink tip scene is overly contrived at times and there's just some water your better off going to a centerpin. That may be sacrilege to some die hard fly guys,, but just remember, most of them probably wouldn't know how to cast a centerpin and if they did hook up probably wouldn't land it because a centerpin has no drag... And what's the first thing every fly guy will tell you about buying a salmo

n fly reel?.. It HAS to have a good drag,,, I love fly fishing more than most, BUT,, it's not the best technique for all water. When I was up on the Kispiox this fall I watched some guys flog the water to a foam with their spey lines and not catch a thing for three straight days. I guess I lack the intestinal fortitude to keeping beating my head against that proverbial wall,, too ADD or something, I had to switch gear. And began catching fish in the same water. To me it's not so important how but that I catch fish. A chrome steely on a 12' centerpin rod feels just as good and is actually more challenging to land. To each their own,, but I like actually catching fish,, some guys just love spey casting,, obviously its more important than catching fish to some. Fish or cast anyway that blows your skirt up,, any day on the water is a gift, enjoy it to the fullest! A lot of the enjoyment comes with the expermenting and learning what works for you. Just don't let yourself be limited by someone else's narrow mindedness. I used to get funny looks 20 years ago when I experimented with putting a fly reel and line on my 12' centerpin rod,, now short spey/switch rods are all the rage. Go figure,,,

Good post. Exactly trying to go everything with one rod doesn't work
I watch at times actually water conditions were a fly rod won't work
Example fishing big q this Fall River was high and fast I couldn't get down deep enough fast enough and I was usuing a tiny 400 with a weighted fly
I would swing to far into the pool before I was deep enough needless to say not many fish
I watched a guy with a bait caster reel a float and a big weight didn't look fun
But he caught fish. It just wasn't for me
Had same thing happen on the stamp but guys were using centre pin
So have fun no matter how u fish

[flint guy]

I'm looking to purchase my line this weekend, I think it will be the pike musky as I'm having a hard time finding outbound short, I'm to excited to wait to order it. I typically find my pike in 10 to 15 ft of water where I fish spinning gear, flies should be similar I hope.

I am leaning to the full floating and an additional intermediate 10 ft sinktip from the skagit lines(5ft floating/5ft at 6 IPA sink)also from rio.
Any last minute advice on adding a sinking tip?
My rod is a 9/10wt, should I go with a 9 or the 10 line? Will a tip overload the rod if I go 10wt? I have never fished these big flies, waterlogged how deep will they sink? Lakes will be my main haunt, but I also enjoy the NSR, moving water experience says a fast sinker would work.